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The Nurse has little counterplay to none.
LoS isn't an option in some realms. Once again RNG has an impact on how the trial will end and how quickly.
This killer needs to be reworked or forced to play on indoor maps where you can actually use LoS as counterplay. Yesterday I was grinding through Halloween tome and I've got to play against The Nurse on McMillan & Autohaven maps which heavily favor her power. Debris loops on Autohaven are useless. The whole middle was a dead zone against her. I wasted my cakes and BPS for nothing. I feel like high MMR is The Nurse show. So boring and unfun. Every single Nurse I versed had all the crutch perks!
People should stop saying she has a high learning curve and even if she did that doesn't justify the bad design. Patient people will become decent with her in 2 weeks. With that blinking power, a decent Nurse can ruin the entire trial... I don't feel motivated to play. I'm fine with every killer except The Nurse. She needs to be changed, removed or nerfed so she can be in line with other killers.
Comments
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You can't look at this case statistically. Statistics say The Pig is OP then and yet everyone knows that's not true. :)
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because most of the players cant play her and since she is unlocked by default, a lots of newbies try her and fail miserably.
Now show me kill rate on nurse among players with 400+ hours in the game.
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This again? *sigh*
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Well, this is the place where I can express myself and give feedback. I said what I needed to say. If this is making you uncomfortable then I'm sorry dude. :)
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Nurse is an artifact of Old DBD. She was essentially the killer solution to some of the most absurd set ups, true infinites, old DS, etc. None of that mattered because they had Nurse.
As the game changed, Nurse remained. Like it or not, her age has more or less led to her gaining a general acceptance status among the community despite her power completely disregarding most of the base game mechanics. The devs are essentially stuck; they can't change Nurse because the community outcry will be severe (just look at her last nerf), so the only thing they can do is make her absolutely brutal to play/learn.
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I seriously doubt any complainers against Nurse have even tried to play her once. Nurse is fine (minus her continual bugs), leave her alone.
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I seriously doubt any Nurse defenders have played against really good Nurse (so called tournament Nurse) even once.
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I don’t play in tournaments, so no I haven’t. Should tournament players be the standard for DbD balance?
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Exactly. As a former rank 1 Nurse main, I'd like to challenge anyone who thinks they can pop off against a high-tier Nurse. I think we'd see pretty quickly just how "easy" it is to outplay a good Nurse.
If you're not catching Survivors with Nurse, then you're not good with her power. Simple as that!
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I'm devotion 22, I played against/with TRU3, Otz, Dowsey, and other high MMR streamers. I know what's fair and what isn't. The Nurse isn't fair let alone fine. :)
Post edited by hazzzard on7 -
Just because its "SO CALLED" tournament nurse, does not mean i was referencing to tournament players, gosh...
so called - used to show that something or someone is commonly designated by the name or term specified.
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The Nurse needs a rework. She is OP and her addons are OP. I am also fine with all killers, except Nurse. I always cringe when people say she needs A LOT of skill. Blight is a killer that requires a lot of skill in my opinion. Some people only play nurse and only play to win. They don't care about fun, that's not why they play DBD. I almost never have fun while playing against her. Most of my teammates kill themselves on hook or just DC and i don't blame them for doing that.
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Nurse takes more skill than blight.
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Nurse takes so many hours to get good at and requires a lot of skill. I'd hate to learn her again.
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I disagree. Blight has a lot of counterplay, wich Nurse does not have.
This is not about facts, Nurse takes more skill in your opinion. But in my opinion Blight requires more skill. Everyone can have their own opinion about that.
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As I have mentioned in a few posts now:
I think Nurse's power is dependent on the power of structures and loops. I say power, but I actually mean the power difference between Nurse and other killers.
Structures, gyms and loops can be very powerful in this game, and be a pain to deal with as killer. Nurse largely ignores structures, loops and walls. I think this creates the difference.
So my suggestion would be to decrease the power of loops and jungle gyms. Split apart gyms that have multiple walls. Fill the map with these halves. This would fix the problem of deadzones together with the problem of structures that are too powerful.
(You would also have to decrease map size, but let's ignore that for now)
I personally think this would decrease the power difference between Nurse and the other killers, in favor of the other killers. This also should give more mindgame potential.
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Her kill rate as a killer was 40% as a whole when looking ecclecticly at the community, and 57% at red ranks, the lowest of both sample sizes out of the 21 killers at the time. The numbers just do not agree.
There is some counterplay to the old girl, be it high immersion or using her own blinks against her, I for one am a fan of immediately charging back into a blink for a spin. Likewise with her reduced speed, Shadowstep is actually quite painful for nurse in maps like corn. Its very easy to lose a survivor like that especially after gettin spun.
Also super weird flex, I don't think arm-wrestling a doctor makes me one.
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Of course she does. It's just you don't play against her often enough to get good at it, that's all. But yes, a good nurse is godly. But godly nurses are a rarity because no one wants to spend the time it takes to perfect her. (but then people take forever to perfect other killers, or their looping skills on survivor, that time spent on nurse would make anyone super good)
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As someone who's like, I'd say middling nurse-nurse main? I've played enough of her that i can blink quite accurately, sometimes even enough to snipe-grab players off of a gen. I very much employ ambush-tactics, and typically have a chase style that abuses committed actions like vaults, pallets, and drops. I'm a nurse main, but very far from perfecting her, and I don't know if how I play is optimal nor how top tier nurses play. I'm also admittedly still in my player infancy w/ only 120 hours, so feel free to dismiss my opinion, I just felt like adding it. And to summarize it, I think nurse is one of the few (if any) killers with totally unassured counterplay when in the hands of a high skill player, making the game genuinely killer sided for once. Surviving a trial with her requires far more luck for the survivor to even have a chance, namely map, perks, items, and of course good teammates.
Having said that, I think the main thing that good nurses abuse is information. If a nurse can find you, she can reach you. And if she can reach you, she can hit you. LoS is just one form of information. Sound is very much another, like footsteps, breathing, and grunts of pain. And notifications are perhaps one of the most dangerous forms of information she can abuse, since it can occur without a player's knowledge, unlike LoS.
The other thing one can abuse is otherwise impossible traversal methods. The map is her playground, what were once advantages for a survivor become their downfall, turning walls and verticality into opportunities for ambush and assured strikes, barriers to gen progress, and overall a hinderance on survivor's capacity for productivity. If the last 3 (or 4, hell, even 5 gens in vertical levels) are in somewhat close proximity, there's hardly any opportunity for a survivor to respond.
Ultimately, this leaves survivors with only one possible tactic for survival: avoid at all costs. Stealth, aura suppression perks, even lockers if you think you've been spotted. Anything to avoid chase, or escape it assuredly into hiding. But unfortunately, an encounter with her is inevitable, and if it's a good nurse the consequences will be severe.
Now, unfortunately I will also say I've very littler experience against a nurse, let alone a good one, due to her rarity as a killer among the lower survivor ranks I'm at. However, correct me if any of these things are already true, but I can think of only a few possible nerfs that could give players a chance without totally gimping her.
The first one is limiting her information, particularly during fatigue. Like I said, if she finds you, she kills you. Fatigue is perhaps your only opportunity for escape in chase, but attempting to do so successfully can be but an exercise in futility. I think one possible way to maybe nerf her is to make it so she's more info-blind during fatigue (possibly for a slightly longer period of time beyond the fatigue itself.) What I mean by this is making it so that for about half a second or so during her recovery, she is deaf and blind to scratch marks and aura, fading back into view after a short bit of time, giving survivors a bit more of a chance to disorient her.
Unfortunately, this solution does present a couple of problems: One of them making it so that early-level nurses will be even more befuddled and bewildered during her fatigue phase, making it far harder to enjoy and improve with her. The other is the fact that high level nurses can still have the advantage of getting the first hit, often what counts the most in an encounter. If they nail that hit (which for our purposes always will) then the survivor is now one hit from death, bleeding profusely, and far more loud than before. After a bit of recombobulation, the nurse can likely just find and down them again thanks to this new info, or through whatever means she'd done so before.
The alternative (and imo better) solution I thought of was Giving the survivors more information about her. Which in this case means Making it known if she is charging a blink, and possibly even if she's looking in your general direction. One form of this I thought about was making it so that her available teleport range is visible as faint embers or ash, expanding with her charge and roughly covering whatever's in her cone of vision
and within her Terror Radius(and decreasing with distance), including behind obstructions. This allows survivors to know if they're a possible target, though only somewhat roughly rather than assuredly. I'd say this is a bit more of a double edged blade. On the one hand, survivors now have a means to gauge when a nurse might be blinking, if only vaguely where and hardly when. Additionally, lower-level nurses will also have a means to gauge their own teleport distance as it stretches from their point of view, allowing them to develop a bit of a sense of range and timing as they target survivors within LoS, but still making it somewhat difficult to pull off behind walls. On the other hand, high tier survivors might be able to use this information too well, knowing when to hide or be ready to duck away, as well as how much time they might have to try and escape her reach. To compensate, I'd suggest buffing her to be able to cancel a blink. Which is to say, able to fatigue themselves quickly mid-charge rather than having to spend a blink and extra time to remain where they are (not to mention, NOT TELEPORTING INTO THE ######### BASEMENT! Ffs...)Now, again, I am too low in ranks to be able to judge how effective or ineffective this sort of info would be in the different tiers, so if someone can provide some insight as to their thoughts on how this might affect things at the various ranks, as well as tips on how I might improve as nurse, beyond "stop being merciful and just brutalize them." I always feel bad if they're all on death hook before even two gens are done, which ironically probably disrupts my mmr and keeps me at these lower ranks. So for all I know, my entire style of play is entirely defunct at higher ranks where survivors can react on a dime to when spine-chill goes off too long or being able to pinpoint my location by how my terror radius begins to grow in volume nearby, as well as having perfect communication.
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It is still considered imbalanced.
But B.H.V.R just to release skins than to really do something
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I'm gonna have to disagree with you there. The Nurse is an old killer and many people decided to take on the challenge and actually learn her. In my case, I simply wanted to see if the rumors are true... Everyone kept saying she takes tons of hours to master, Nurse this, Nurse that... the reality is if someone decides to take on that path they will have to be patient and they will need some time to adjust. I played The Nurse without range addons to get that muscle memory and it took me 2 weeks before I was blinking on top of survivors, mistakes I made were minimal. Now I use those infamous range addons too and I'm fully convinced with some time investment you'll see how unfair she is. Even without slowdown perks she's a headache... Add some slowdown (ruindying, pop corrupt) and you have a recipe for consistent 4Ks. I would agree stealth is a good option (to some extent), but a slow-paced game means she's getting hooks and you're not getting more gens done which still works in her favor.
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It must be done so that she could not hit instantly
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High mmr is mainly nurse because most of killer cast can't compete at the highest level.
Until more of the killer cast have a chance at high mmr I believe nurse is fine.
Also a killer shouldn't be nerfed because of a map. Instead they should look at the map and add more los blockers
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You want her to play only on indoor maps ? Yeah sure, 3 layers of wall gives counterplays yes, this is true. I mean, the Nurse has literally to guess where you are for the 2 blinks.
"Guessing", that's literally why Spirit was nerfed.
Sure on some maps she's unleashed (Midwich/Autoheaven), as it is for a lot of killers. If on classic maps, you can't put a tree/wall during the first blink between you and the Nurse, and keep the LoS broken, that's your fault (or the map's).
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lol she is bugged as hell and you need to know textures if you want to play against her. some textures give her slower blinks or require more charge.
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tournament nurses get outplayed in tournaments by teams which have only one dh and one ds. most people don't know how to play against her.
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This is the trouble that nothing will help you against a strong nurse, it is easier to disconnect from this game
You can forget about pallets or any hinges against the nurse so don't complain
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Briefly what needs to be done
You need to make the nurse's jump mechanic different - so that the second jump does not go through the wall and textures
One you fly through the wall, the second only along the corridor and everything will be fair
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I think Nurse should just have a small slowdown when passing through objects and debris in the map. Even if they buff the final lunge a bit.
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The trick to nurse is
Sometimes press S.
Sometimes press A or D.
Sometimes take your hand off the keyboard.
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or maybe other killers need buffs to compete at high mmr? its all the same nurse and blight for such reasons. and will continue to be this way. she doesnt need a nerf, if anything. other killers need buffs
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You perfectly worded what I wanted to say.
About the devs being stuck with this utterly broken killer: why the hell did they maintain range/recharge speed add-ons after the rework. These add-ons basically create the old nurse they wanted to rebalance: e.g., you barely need to manage your blinks with these add-ons.
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she has her slowdown if she passes through some objects.
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survivors at high mmr know how to use textures against her
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I think she needs to remove the lunge with a blow after the jump, then there will be no situations where she flies and still makes a dash with a blow 2 meters
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Dead hard, Iron Will and hit validation... There is literally nothing more you need.
Yes, god tier Nurse has no counterplay and will always win... the thing is, Nurse has the lowest kill rate in game for a reason... there is maybe 5 god Nurses in community and I guarantee you never faced any of them. Just play Nurse yourself, see what is very annyoing to face and do just that as a survivor.
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Its not bad design, the problem is that you've faced so few decent nurses that you don't know how to counterplay her. You can literally run a nurse in an open field with nothing and still win that chase. Get in a KYF and play as and against nurse for practice and git gud.
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You know this sounds like you just dont try running to the side or towards the nurse while charging blink, dont see how indoor maps would actually fix anything.
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You want to talk about bad design? It's the maps that are littered with brainless loops with 0 mindgame potential, the god pallets and god vaults. People rightfully play Nurse to circumnavigate all of this nonsense.
If a Nurse can down you repeatedly over and over again, you just straight up got outplayed by someone that's playing a killer that takes significantly more skill than playing survivor ever will.
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Go in a locker when they charge blink.
Dwights arent babies, they are genius.
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She needs to take the lunge because Dead hard won't help you half the time.
Basically, the map is not an open field
And even if so, he will understand how to kill you after 3 jumps
you won't run far after the locker
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Head on.
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Across all MMR brackets... You forgot to add that major part.
Of course a low MMR Nurse has a horrible kill rate. However, if you just counted high MMR, the Nurse would have the highest kill rate.
I do agree with the OP, the Nurse has so little counter play that it practically doesn't exist. I don't know if it's a probably at high MMR because of pro SWFs, but at mid-range MMR, she will go through survivors like a nuclear bomb.
The stats being shown above are a year old, if not a year and 1/2, so you can't use those with any accuracy.
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Yes I agree he is not imbalanced as a nurse
But he looks like a bubba only a distant
You got me thinking about locker mechanics
What if you give 1 second haste after quickly leaving the locker
Why is it balanced? Because if the killer stands near the locker in which you are hiding, he will hit you anyway, and there are many stories about the fact that when you were able to dodge a blow by jumping into the closet, you still cannot walk 1 meter
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Perhaps, and going in and leaving a locker midchase would be a terrible idea by all accounts
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Nurse blinks in a straight line, you can't calculate the distance of a straight line?
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she has higher kill count at low mmr, not high one. good players at high mmr don't need to suffer because of bad players at low mmr.
Post edited by sadakiyo on0 -
Shrug.
Either BHVR balances things at the low end without regard for killer viability at intermediate/high MMR, or they need to balance things around high MMR.
You cannot nerf killers who are too strong at low MMR but suck at high MMR and nerf killers for being too strong at high MMR despite them struggling at low MMR unless you want 5 hour survivor queue times at peak.
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In my opinion, the exit from the locker should give acceleration for 1 second
Then there will be more moments to beat such killers.
The cards are made up of meaningless spots and loops.
And our imbalanced nurse ignores them
Why? Because she doesn't care about the balance
Just at the red ranks, every second game against a nurse, Blight and this is very annoying
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Why? Because you literally don't need any obstacles at all to loop nurse. You just have to do basic geometry and let her own cooldowns give you the distance. Furthermore you can easily force a nurses blink to become swallowed by using a piece of loop.
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Perhaps you have gold or silver for your survivor
But I play at the red rank and I don't know how much hidden MMR there is
But every third game I run into a nurse and Blight and have to sweat
And against a good nurse, nothing else will help your team, even if you add two more survivors to the team
Despite the fact that I do not need to speak for the complexity of learning for her
I have friends who play for her
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