General Discussions
General Discussions
Can you still defend Circle of Healing after watching this?
Can anyone still defend the Circle of Healing as "Balanced" after watching this 3 minute video?
Comments
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Just like some youtuber said (maybe Scott?), the problem of CoH isn't the perk itself, it's the uncapped healing speed that allow those 4 sec heal. If you cap the speed at 100% or don't bring anything with it, it is a 16 sec infinite selfheal, which would still be strong but not that op i think.
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I agree with this.
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You don't have to watch the video to know boons are just a broken mechanic in general.
There's so much wrong with how they function its crazy.
-Why are they all tied to one totem that you can infinity put up, has a range of 24m's and multiple survivors can use?
-Why is CoH 100? Yes a survivor healing at medkit speed with out a medkit is nuts even on it's own and gets even more bonkerd with medkits and healing perks.
"Just kick the boons" is also not a good answer either because of how they take no time to put up and in multiple locations that may or may not be easy to find.
They hurt alot of killers pressure and make not committing on someone make any sort of pressure just vanish because "hold w to boon area". 3 gens basically don't matter mow as survivor cuz of this.
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Medkits are the problem not COH
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If you only chainsaw healing doesn't matter much, also no Deadhard.
-Hillbilly Enjoyer
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I also agree with this. Boons are fine and not a problem for me. The problems with the current Boons arise because they can be mashed up with some other perks and items: A green Med-Kit with add-ons and then Botany Knowledge within Cycle of Healing is just dope. Same with Shadowstep and Iron Will alone they are completly fine in conjunktion they rob the Killer of far too much information.
Boons on themself are fine. Imagin capped self-healing and only one Iron Will or Shadowstep being active. Both would be fine and the play around safe zones is also fine. I would only change the fact that the killer hat to touche the Boon, maybe attacking it should be sufficient.
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Great tongue in cheek vid by spooks,another ill thought out aspect of the game by the devs.I play both killer and survivor in equal measures.Why introduce an aspect to the game that makes it frustrating to one side(killer) and boring to the other(survivor) by removing some of the element of skill.This aspect needs a rework to make it balanced.
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A 16s inf heal totem isn't the problem.
Ok lol.
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Why am I not surprised that it doesn’t disable DS.
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no way... are you sure it doesn't???
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Tbf you have to find to find totem, bless it, get hurt and then come running back to the 24m area. Inner Strength can heal in 8s and isn't limited to an area if the map. Even self care builds can do a little longer without the search for totems.
As killer I've only seen COH a few times. If you want to have fun with them then run Undying and Haunted Grounds. They waste potentially 56s of a game just to activate HG 2x.
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Oh, so now medkits are a problem? Are we planning to bully the devs into trashing medkits too?
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Your suggestion being to get rid of medkits rather than nerfing boon totem mechanics.
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No it doesn't. Even blessing totems doesn't disable Ds.
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huh that's odd
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And the worst thing that he missed to point about this perk is that for only 1 perk slot this effects the whole team.
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They are also bugged, if you started healing with a medkit inside the CoH area and the medkit runs out before you are completed healed the bonus speed from the medkit keeps on until fully healed.
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I feel like maybe the medkits shouldn't stack with the effect and it would be nice if maybe after you snuff the same boon twice then it cleanses and survivor must find another totem. I'm not an expert though and dunno whether that would be too oppressive or not
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I noticed that too the other day.
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I don't think any other healing mechanic should stack with COH, other than teammates healing you.
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It shouldn't work even on teammates. If u pick perk that gives u 100% heal speed after u are unhook (sry I don't remember it's name), its almost 2 sec heal for single person.
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No I want medkit add ons changed. 15% heal speed bonus and 1 extra heal are way too strong
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I think so too, I don't play survivor as much but the few I've done with my mates and CoH it started to feel pretty gross in the matches we had beefy medkits to boot
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we'll make it
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I'm such a naive 😁
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You are giving the whole team the equivalent of self-care+botany for 1 perk slot with the value of 8 perks. Not a problem btw, completly balanced just move on killers, you are just whining as allways.
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The thing with medkits is that they eventually run out. I think they should be toned down, but they're not nearly as much of a problem as COH is (unless you start putting the two together). COH is basically just infinite medkits and, as I've started to like calling it, Circle of No Pressure.
Basically, I think healing speeds are an issue with or without boons, but the introduction of boons simply made that problem more obvious and gave it more potential to be taken advantage of. In other words, I think the issues lie both in healing speeds in general AND the perk itself, as well as how boons work in general.
The reason inner strength is fine is because you need to cleanse a totem, which means it eventually stops working because you run out of totems + cleansing a totem takes 14 seconds and then you get ONE 8-second heal, so minimum 22 second time investment, not counting the time it takes to go to a totem and then go to a locker. This also has no (direct) benefit to your teammates - it doesn't allow THEM to heal. If COH allowed you to self-heal only once like this, then it wouldn't be OP. (That's not how I'm suggesting it be nerfed, but I'm just making a comparison here.)
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That takes 16/24 seconds to make and only affects 24m. It can also be destroyed.
All the time on boons is time off gens remember?
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Makes some fair points, should leave sarcasm to the professionals though
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Interesting, I was not aware that all 4 survivors had to be off gens to get a boon going.
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And every time u are injured u can heal fast and for free. U don't distract your teammates from m1 gens, remember? It's much easier to prolong chases cause Iw + shadowstep confuses killer, remember?
Why u suddenly forget about infinite value your team gets from single perk. Kinda suspicious.
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Of course they don’t but it’s still time off gens.
The only reason COH is broken is because of stack self heal speeds. On its own it’s fine
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To answer one of the questions, the reasons a single boon totem contains all boon perks is because if every boon required a unique totem then you would need hypothetically 16 totems around the map to handle up to 4 boons on 4 survivors. So instead they have one survivor can have only one boon totem active at a time and that totem has all the effects of that survivor’s boon perks.
Like others said in the thread if the devs determine that Circle of Healing is too powerful all they have to do is turn down its healing speed. Obviously if its speed was just 1% health per second it would be worthless, even though it can be restarted if snuffed out and even though it helps the whole team. So somewhere between that too slow healing extreme and too fast is a reasonable setting for the speed.
Similarly if they need to tone down Shadow Step they can just reduce its radius. Shadow Step with too small a radius is worthless, so somewhere above a teeny radius is a reasonable one if the current one is too large.
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I watched scott's video and I still think CoH is fine. You would have to dedicate your entire build around healing (plus a med kit) to get super quick heals like that. I haven't seen anyone do this. You're better off bringing perks like DH, BT, DS, etc. I'd actually be fine with them making it so perks and med kits don't affect it, though. I haven't watched the video OP posted, just posting my thoughts on the video Scott made.
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I don't want to believe the devs haven't thought about something like this happening.
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For free? No. You have to be near the totem and healing yourself also takes time away from working on gens.
EDIT: Not to mention the time it takes to find a totem, then bless it.
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Ok, so one survivor (and only one survivor) gets off a generator to set up a totem. And then the killer snuffs the totem only for it to be set up again. If they snuff any totem that's even the slightest bit out of the way, it's usually a net loss for them since they can't actually get rid of it permanently.
If survivors are stupid and set up boons right next to incomplete generators that the killer wants to patrol, and the killer patrols that generator and snuffs the totem out 5 seconds later, then yeah, the survivor wasted their time off a generator for no benefit. But all you have to do is be smart about where you're setting up your totems and make it as inconvenient for the killer as possible, at which point it's no longer worth their time to snuff, and you've given your entire team an incredibly strong healing boost.
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This "time on boons is time not on gens" makes no sense. By default you need a teammate to heal yourself for 16 seconds. The time you need to find a teammate + 16 seconds heal is probably way more than it would take to set a boon + heal yourself, and it's something that only occupies a single survivor instead of two AND it also stays there for the rest of your team to use.
If anything CoH BUYS you time on gens. By enabling everyone to heal insanely fast you're making it harder for the killer to build pressure, thus making gen efficiency even better. People really should stop acting Boons are something that slow down survivors, because it's the opposite.
"Only affects 24m" that's a 1808m² radius. Most maps range from 9000~10000m², if you discount areas of the map which no one uses (those corners that only have Z walls), a single Boon can cover effectively 25% of a map. Most teams I've played against have at least two Boon users, so that's 50% of a map with infinite medkits, no scratch marks and no auras. Imo the devs should really consider toning down the area to something like 16m. It's supposed to be a "safe haven" mechanic, not something that turns half of the map into "gg ez baby killer".
"Just bring a Medkit and it's better". It's not, medkits don't affect the whole team and by bringing CoH you can use the item slot for something like a toolbox with double charge addons + Built to Last.
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If you would watch that video you would notice he had no healing build but was still able to medkit himself infront of the killer in few seconds. While being in the boon radius. It's busted and i think they should remove the stackable effect with healing items.
Edit: typos..
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The problem is how medkits stack with boons.
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You just need an emergency medkit + one healing perk with CoH to reliably heal during chase.
So like in this video, DH + DS + Botany + CoH. That’s hardly a dedicated healing build.
Not only does this allow you to heal in chase but it provides your team with 3 perks for free.
I still think it’s early days with CoH but the value it provides does seem OTT and when SWF learn how to use it properly it’s going to be game-breaking imho. We’ll see I suppose.
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I just explained how it isn't just that, but ok.
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If it’s out of the way surely that means survivors have to go out of their way to heal too right? I will say the time efficiency is probably too much right now but I just don’t want boon nerfed into the ground too early
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Let's be honest. Most survivors on this forum would defend Booms even if they offered an"activate Boon to make yourself invulnerable for the rest of the trial function".
It has given them a huge advantage over killers and they are terrified of them being nerfed.
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I honestly have no idea what sort of "identity" boon totems have under the hood.
They don't disable DS, while all other interactions with totems do. But at the same time they're clearly not dull totems, but Undying's aura reading works with them. It's like they don't know what they want to be 😄
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If they do get a nerf it won't be anytime soon......gotta get those sales in.
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Yeah, they do. Which they’re fine with. Go away from the action and heal while the others progress the match, then come back to the gens. It’s like self caring in a corner except it’s not ridiculously slow (which is why self care isn’t op).
I understand not wanting it nerfed yet considering it’s only been in the game a couple weeks, if only to collect more data on it/figure out how to fix it properly and in a way that makes it fair but doesn’t make it garbage.
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Boons are still a problem for a few reasons...not for all the classic reasons all the arguments are saying but ones people haven't thought of.
1. Area Size - The area size is still too large as it can still cover a wide area. I saw a Tuber play on Ormond Estate and someone put a Boon on the 2nd floor of the main building and it covered 90% of the building and a good size area outside too. The area should be shrank to a 30m range.
Totem Placement - Totems themselves make Boons a problem because they were not originally designed to be interacted with Killers. I have come across multiple Boons that I cant snuff or it takes me 300 years to try to find the right angle to get the Snuff to pop up.
CoH Healing Speed - Yes I said not of the usual arguments but this is a issue. Without a cap to the healing speed we get like the above video shows. So either they need to make a cap for the healing speed or make it that first aid kits are not affected by CoH speed boost.
This is only the beginning - Guys this is only the beginning they are supposed to be bringing out something like 12 or so more Boons. With boons stacking with each perk you have we could see new Metas that we could only have nightmares about. If the Devs are not careful they will make Survivors way too powerful.
I could see SWFs running a assortment of Boon Perks instead of the normal Metas we see now to make large areas that have multiple effects.
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You cant use auto didact or we'll make it with a medkit. I dont know why coh is being given special treatment.
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