General Discussions
General Discussions
WIDENING the gap between solo queue and SWF
BHVR, help me understand this one. For years there's been request after request to buff solo queue, so it will be closer to par with SWF. If you do this, you can better balance the game and make a more pleasant experience for solo survivors. We're talking about real simple changes: seeing each other's perks in the lobby, items, add-ons, indication of when various perks are in play in the game, any of these.
Instead, you've made boon totems: extremely strong perks that only one survivor needs to bring to benefit an entire team. One blessed totem brings all the benefits of every boon perk - two, about to be three. Solo survivors don't have the coordination to tell others to not cleanse totems, so they can be blessed instead. And soon if they cleanse totems, they will run the risk of being hit with Hex: Pentimento.
Can someone please clarify for me?
Comments
-
Its simple honestly you just have to say in chat yiu have boon like that no one are going to cleanse totem unless they want to troll your ass.
I mostly play solo and all my perk are team perk exept for dead hard and i just type them in the chat.
Ofc i play with crossplay off and im on pc if you are on ps or xbox you cant do that. I rarely feel like im at a dissadvantage compare to a swf exept if the killer have noed because i cant tell the other survivor where the totem are so i need to go there myself and it take more time.
0 -
As long as BHVR can keep acquiring new players faster than people quit, I doubt they care. That's their whole strategy.
18 -
Look- if they bump solo up to swf levels (as in giving everyone voice chat) they would need to buff killers, a lot, and than survivors (at least the loud ones) would do what?
Ignore this comment, I was wrong
0 -
I think you hit the nail on the head.
5 -
I dont think you're looking at this from the right angle.
Why is Pinhead Larry being nerfed? Because solo q. More specifically because BHVR refuses to give solo q tools to communicate.
If we bump up Solo games, our killer roster can become more complex, engaging and demanding.
7 -
True, well I stand corrected
0 -
That's literally the point. If solo gets a buff to be able to be on pair with SWF, there would be no issue in buffing certain killers.
10 -
Idk.
Pinhead got nerfed because of Solo Q, most likely. Not like anyone was playing him tho.
I have zero faith in BHVR anymore and I'm mostly just here to try to get Console players the ######### they were promised and then to watch the game die.
3 -
Yup they only have a short term strategy but what they don't know or forget is that the old school player are the cement of a good community that then keeps the game on the good tracks and alive.
On the long run, you need to have old school players to have an healthy playerbase.
New players that join DbD now will never play 1000h as the game state is terrible and they don't have this nostalgia link with the game.
If most old school players are leaving, the game will die. It's what has happened with L4D1 for exemple. It's what is happening with R6S.
And the state of the game doesn't allow new players to stay. Many players have joined the free week-end, none stayed...
We will see what happens when VHS is released, BHVR might be really surprised 🙄
1 -
Us solo champs love a challenge. Swf is easy mode, solo is where you'll find the legends of the game.
6 -
When game dies they will have enought milk from surv cows to make another game.
0 -
For years there has been a request to buff solo and for years, time after time solo players have proven how terrible they are making decisions.
Reliability is not found in solo Q, even with kindred they stand around crouched looking at each other. No gens done, no saves… farming off hook without BT doesn’t count.
So if Kindred can’t force them to take action I don’t know what can. No type of buff will change selfish playstyles which many solo players choose to follow.
0 -
They've been closing the gap between solo's and swf tho, the fact that people don't see and understand that is mind numbing with the perk changes and additions they've made.
0 -
The changes are too slow and too few. There is also no debate that boons have a stronger place in SWF than solo queue. One designated boon survivor who does all the blessing. Why can I go into a survivor match in DbD Mobile, which has no chat feature at all, with more knowledge about my teammates than I can in the base game?
2 -
Almost like a pyramid scheme. 😂 Yikes.
0 -
I’ve been playing against a lot of Pinheads though. I’m sure it’s different for everyone but yeah he seems popular right now I guess.
0 -
Ping system (even short range, and w/e give it an audio cue for killers if in certain range) would help a lot. I want to take the rainbow map in the future and see if i can make it more useful (to mark gens/heals/totems etc.) it's more of a meme, but i think the tool isn't used at all at the moment. I literally never saw someone use the ping system of the raindbow map
0 -
Well my idea was put in a voice chat that's ALWAYS ON. Meaning that it always picks up your mic and its local based hearing. That will make it a bit fairer for SoloQs and Killers that dont have anyone helping them out.
0 -
One idea I have seen passed around and is pretty fair is also to increase BP and Shard gains for SoloQs and Killers for every Member of a SWF is in the lobby. That way they will still get goo BP and Shards even though SWFs may speed run or smurf the match.
0 -
This is on top of the constant "just do bones" rebuttal in every Nerf NOED thread
2 -
"Its simple honestly you just have to say in chat yiu have boon like that no one are going to cleanse totem unless they want to troll your ass."
*Cries in console*
1 -
I have seen clips of VHS and I'm not hopeful.....because we thi k survivors have gear now to mess with killers......in VHS you get actual weapons to fight back....
0 -
Just a quick list for ya:
- They changed it so that one Survivor is always the obsession. This prevents the killer from knowing if the team has no Decisive Strikes. This change was made for Solo Q
- They changed the UI just to give survivors a hook count so all survivors could see how many hooks each of them had taken and who was safe to go on rescues/bodyblocks. This change was made for Solo Q
- They changed Borrowed Time to work at any distance, against stealth killers, and against lullaby killers so you could just freely unhook without any exterior knowledge of placement. This change was made for Solo Q
- They added extremely loud sound cues to killers including Hillbilly, Pyramid Head, Demogorgon, and Spirit, so that all survivors would know when they're using their powers at nearly any distance. This was for Solo Q
- They've nerfed a number of potent killer addons for killers like Pig and Pinhead which, though largely useless against SWF, were potent against solo Q
And so forth.
They keep buffing survivors and nerfing killers, but guess what? Every survivor buff and killer nerf ALSO HELPS SWF. Solo Q survivors are getting a leg up all the time, but SWF will never not be stronger than Solo Q. They flat out will not, no matter how many additional advantages survivors gain. The game was not built for comms and it is not balanced for comms. And even if they put proximity voice chat in the game, SWF would STILL be stronger than Solo Q, because their communication goes everywhere at once.
Literally, the only solution to the problem is to make SWF go to their own queue and they've said a million times that they're not going to do that. Using out-of-game programs to gain a significant in-game advantage is something that the Devs know about and are not only complicit with, they actively encourage. That's just the nature of this beast.
Things will never be balanced and SWF will ALWAYS have a stronger, better time than Solo Q because they refuse to nerf SWF or buff ONLY Solo Q (which they perceive as somehow nerfing SWF). Even something as trivial as "Solo should get more points while swf get what they are currently getting" is seen as a SWF Nerf. It's a hell of a thing.
5 -
Yeah, it's tricky.
On one hand, you can't just 'buff' solos without somehow nerfing killers.
As the poster above me pointed out, BHVR has already made numerous changes to survivor perks to help solos, almost all of which have made it harder for the killer in all matches. They've also nerfed the everloving hell out of Pinhead's addons purely for the sake of solos. And Pinhead was mid-tier, at best.
The problem is that the game can't be balanced around both solos and SWF, and in that scenario, you have to balance around SWF.
There isn't really an answer to this.
And yes, boons are just a problem on many levels. They should never have been added as is, and will likely get reworked heavily as the game moves forward.
VHS is...interesting. It's very different from DbD, and looks pretty janky too. Honestly though, competition is always good.
Shrug. NOED is strong, and a pretty annoying perk to face. It's nowhere near as strong as people make it out to be and only really good on some killers and combined with other perks (NWO is the biggie).
At worst, you'll have to sacrifice someone. If you already had 2 dead before NOED, you would have lost anyway if they'd brought different perks.
One thing that survivors need to do more outside of high level games is to learn to figure out which perks the killer is running. If he has 1-2 'blank' spots, anticipate NOED.
You won't force players to be better, or to work better as a team artificially. This is something that has to come from time and practice.
0 -
you left out an important part
swf players far more efficient than solos running same perks and wasting their slots
1 -
I doubt the new hex will be seen much. Introducing it during the boon meta seems like a waste. More survivors are blessing then cleansing and once they see the hex activate you can bet it won't last.
It's true though; every attempt they make at giving low skilled solos something to use, it just widens the gap cause swf can utilize it far better.
And thanks to the sinkhole that is sbmm, once a solo player gets sucked in about the only way out is switching to swf. The idea of placing you against lower opponents doesn't work on survivors as it really just places you with worse teammates.
1 -
This is the problem. We all as concerned players of DbD should do whatever we can to discourage new players joining the game. That is we must always play as toxic as we can, preferably at lower MMR where all the newbies are: facecamp 1st hook as Bubba, hard tunnel as Wraith, always slug the last survivor while BMing them, as survivors - preferably as SWF - teabag and BM every potato killer. And always, ALWAYS give some salt in the endgame chat (while not using banned words, of course, all is within game rules: insults without any kind of *phoby are allowed). We should fill the game with toxicity to the brim. This way we will discourage new players from joining and encourage old players to uninstall. And this will lead to the devs finally noticing the game's problems and actually fixing them instead of just making new cosmetics and chapters. SoloQ and SWF won't be addressed until we as a collective do something with it.
0 -
Everything is a question of balance.
VHS looks way more balanced than DbD.
Sure in DbD survivors haven't got weapons to fight the killer but the killer is totally powerless and cannot even defend gens properly.
0 -
I think VHS is aiming at a different audience. Do not get me wrong, the game looks good but it has no appeal for me and I will stay with DbD for the time being. Both games offer a different experience and I do not think they compete about the same audience as much as some people think.
The problem is that BHVR can not account for people making stupid decisions. While they can offer some cruches via adding more information for survivors you can not force people to act in the best way possible. That Feng is going to blow up the Gen, that Adam (me) is going to kick pumpkins, that Jill is rushing head first at your hook with Bubba on her heels...nothing can help you here.
Sure there are things that BHVR could do. I think certain signals and communications could help to evade some stupidity, like a signal that the Killer is camping you or that somebody is already rushing to the rescue.
Boons are also useful in SoloQ. They act as beacons to signal people to go to a certain area.
That said I saw SoloQ players pull off some amazing stuff making me believe their were SWF the way they coordinate and took hits for each other...
0 -
I wish they'd release that game on console. I would probably try it out.
0 -
You can buff just solo's and then buff killers to deal with the fallout. Kindred base kit, ping system, chat wheel, totem counter. not hard to implement, but they stupidly refuse to do it and just keep tacking crap onto perks that just hurt solo players to run instead of the meta perks that swf run every single game.
2 -
They'd just need to allow to see each other's perks in the lobby (and maybe in the esc menu) to close a lot the gap.
0 -
Survivors basically get free Healing now if their SWF can alot just 2 perk slots. A killer cannot contest 2 Boon COH perks on different sides of the map. The game will become Toxic player VS. Toxic Player, and a race to the most TOXIC/NASTY play style will win!!
0 -
Kindred is way too strong for a basekit. You'd have to give killers Deerstalker and BBQ baseline to compensate.
Ping system and emote wheel? Yeah, that should be a thing.
You have a counter to totems. It's called Small Game.
If you buff solo Q, then buff killers - now SWF struggles. You can't just make huge sweeping changes to balance - there is always a knock-on effect.
0 -
Base kit totem counter that everyone can see instead of forcing a stupid perk that only one can see. SWF already have kindred through coms so why would it be too op?
1 -
Giving tools for free is dumb when the whole game revolves around using/ the use of perks.
Want to extend chase- Dead Hard
Want to heal- Self care, inner healing, COH
Want protection after an unhook- DS
Why should a totem counter being base kit be a thing when you can just run Small game?
It all goes back to survivors not wanting to stop using the same 5 perks.
SWF will always be stronger than solo's and there's nothing you can do to combat that...any buffs to solos are buffs to swfs too.
0 -
Because it's an enormous amount of free information. More than even SWF provides.
If it only gave survivor auras, that would be one thing - but the ability to see exactly where the killer is going is pretty damn strong.
0 -
I know this is confirmation bias at play, but I've not encountered many survivors that really want to do bones to begin with and even less now that boons are a thing. Majority of my time playing survivor is spent in solo Q and I even get people asking in lobbies if someone's running boons.
0 -
I still do totems if my solo teammates are running boon perks.
0 -
One issue here is lobby bullying.
"OMG, you brought such noob perks."
"Why you running a survivor with less than 4 purples?"
"We aren't carrying your noob Felix. Get out or we will throw!"
Survivors are real dickheads sometimes. This would happen a lot.
1 -
It isn't a bad idea to do that if only one or two people are doing boons. Though, I have grown attached to my bone rubbing so I like to be able to move my boons around so I am kinda glad most people seem allergic to bones.
As for buffing solo Q, I mean anything that uplifts us solo will still be a net gain to dedicated SWFs. Short of in-game comms there isn't a lot that could be done to active shrink the gap rather than just at best maintain it.
0 -
Giving solos information that swf already have is not a buff to swf.
2 -
as much as I want too try to bring solo to SWF level, wouldn't certain killers need buffing???
0 -
That last line made absolutely no sense. How does buffing solo affect swf in any way?
Killers struggle against swf.
2 -
And how is it not, how can you buff solos with info that wont benefit swf?
Sure swf have comms yet comms can only give you so much info/rough estimates, if you decided to give solos auras then swf will now have definite info in the form of auras and voice chat.
Aside from that how will you differentiate who's a solo vs who's swf? Are we going to not give any info to people grouped up at all even if they're just a 2 man? And even if they are grouped up they could not be using comms and just playing together.
0 -
Killer gameplay would need and does need QOL improvements for most of the current roster. Adding universal comm support in game would only make that fact start to stand out more as even people at lower ranks tend to fair better when they can just talk to each other. The difference comms make in this game is nuts to me.
0 -
Let me explain.
You are assuming that all SWFs communicate perfectly and telepathically, to simulate the effects of Kindred.
If you make Kindred baseline, you give more 'free time' to SWFs. That's one thing less they have to communicate, and removes the possibility of someone giving bad info, making a mistake or at least clogging up coms for a bit.
While it wouldn't be as big of a buff, you'd still be buffing SWFs considerably. You give them a ton of free 'communication cycles' to coordinate other stuff.
Now - I have no objection to letting survivors see the auras of allies (that part of Kindred) in solo - if and only if this effect is removed when any SWF is present. But that's far too nuanced and surgical a solution for BHVR to ever implement. They've stated that they won't have stuff that works differently in solo/SWF - so...yeah. DOA.
0 -
It's not just kindred.
They know where the killer is at all times, they have all the kindred information for free without needing a perk, they know when someone is 99% on the floor ready to be picked up, they know when someone is under a pallet, they know if the gates are open, etc.
Yes, kindred basekit would buff swf slightly, that's why the killers would be buffed after to compensate.
2 -
The one flaw with this is that people complain about killers in the state they're in now, so saying killers would be buffed after is confusing because which killers deserve to be buffed, one of them or only a select few? Even more so because certain killers are just stronger than others so how will we just buff up killers without them being too strong now....
0 -
That's the problem right there.
How exactly would you buff killers? Or more importantly, how would you *persuade BHVR* to buff killers? That's like trying to persuade a cat to eat a carrot.
BHVR just nerfed Pinhead, Wraith and Deathslinger (solidly 'B' and 'C' tier killers) specifically for the sake of uncoordinated groups, and I cannot think of a single time they've reverted a killer nerf.
There is a reason why killers fight so passionately for their role on the forums - it feels like, if they don't, then everything that is remotely powerful or fun to use (see: Undying nerf basically destroying all hex play for the sake of Ruin) will be taken away from us.
So, how about this. Get the devs to buff the weaker killers and revert a few nerfs. Then we can talk about buffing the baseline kit for survivors. Sorry if I sound cranky, but it is what it is.
1
