Revert Wraith's lunge the devs over-nerfed it
Poor wraith. He had his moment in the sun and then the devs nerfed his lunge without giving anything in return (maybe faster un-clock).
Revert the lunge. It was fine before.
Comments
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Yeah, but remember he was "a wee bit over powered"...
I can understand that addon nerf, but basekit nerf wasn't needed at all. He had problems in high MMR before and they just made it worse, where Wraith is not able to use his power on most loops.
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I agree
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I agree. All Seeing nerf was ok, although don't get me wrong, going from 12m -> 8m is harsh, I think 10m would have been fine, but there's an irrational love for numbers to be multiples/increments of 4 balance be damned, so screw it. They wanted to nerf the addon, there's no way it can ever overperform now.
Most importantly however, the basekit nerf was completely unnecessary.
It's a very small change to his numbers, that has a drastic affect on the range you can get hits with him in game. He has to now be completely up the ass of whoever he's chasing when he uncloaks, to get the hit. At this distance, lunges are practically unnecessary.
You'll never see any long lunges anymore since you have to uncloak when touching them, and you need that entire 1 second of speed or more to make up the distance they gain on you while uncloaking, so you can get to the point where your normal lunge can actually hit.
If you try to lunge during that 1 second of post-uncloak-speed to get the longer lunge, the effective distance is the same, or worse.
This was already Wraith's weakest point vs skilled survivors, but now? Now this means using his cloak in chase is distinctly no longer a viable tactic.
Basekit uncloaking already took forever. It still takes forever. The ability to hit those Michael Jordan at the end of Space Jam lunges out of cloak, was the only thing he had going for him in any chase. This change restricts his available playstyles/builds and makes Wraith much less consistent, interesting or enjoyable to play.
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Expecting devs to revert something that the survivor dogma was crying about months. What a waste of time, devs don’t care about killers because they’re not the majority.
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I'd take old Wraith over this weak piece of crap any day.
It took the devs, what, 4 updates to change 3 things:
- True Invisibility so he can't be spotted from long distances trying to be sneaky.
- Swapped his huge Surprise Attack lunge for fast Cloaked movement speed.
- Add-on adjustments.
I would happily take the lunge over movement speed any day. No idea why they caved to people saying "he has no pressure" well guess what ladies, I was right, now he has no pressure where it actually counts. The guy has zero chase potential at his disposal, and even his ability to get close and grant free injuries is crapper, if survivors hear you coming or see you coming, the nerfed lunge makes it so you don't even get that hit XD Wraith is actually god awful now. Down there with Freddy and Legion. Potentially back to being considered the comparative worst killer again.
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I agree. Wraith was mediocre before the nerf, now he's below average
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Honestly yeah, the old lunge was essentially his entire power. That was what let his power get hits. Now he has nothing except minor map mobility.
This seems to have just been survivor mains crying about the lunge hits catching them off-guard bc it requires that you pay attention and play around it. But their seething has paid off.
It's bad enough that his snarling constantly announce his presence, and that his uncloaking/cloaking whoosh noise make his silent bell addon nearly worthless, and that the uncloak speed even with addons is insanely long.
Wraith wasn't OP before, but now I'm distinctly not scared of him at all. if he cloaks, I know he can't hit me unless I mess up or get caught out super far away from anything.
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I'm a Survivor main and never had any issue with The Wraith, and I in fact find him to be amongst the few "perfectly balanced" Killers.
I wouldn't mind if they reverted that nerf.
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A little bit unrelated to your statement but I really wish they made all seeing tiers. So like...
Yellow all seeing addon - 6m
Green all seeing addon - 8m
Purple all seeing addon - 10m
So if we want to stack purple and green it becomes 18m and that stops you from using another add on.
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Addon tiers are fundamentally bad design already and should be removed.
There should only be 1 version of each type of addon, and all addons should be buffed or nerfed accordingly. Addon tiers only exist to pad out bloodwebs and keep people grinding BP for longer, growing a long term investment in playing the game, bc that incentivizes spending money on the game over time.
You could make a flimsy argument for their being 2 tiers of addons, with the 2nd tier being merely 50% strength or minor additional effect or w/e, to enable people to double down on a specific effect and allow build diversity in that regard, but since that concept is the same thing just applied to every existing addon, it doesn't need to be an additional tier of addons, it should just be something you get by default if you don't equip a 2nd addon, you'd automatically get this "echo" of the addon you do have equipped.
But they're prolly never gonna do that, so in the meantime, yeah the All Seeing nerf to 8m was also too harsh. Should've been to 10m.
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I agree with the all seeing nerf but the lunge nerf was unnecessary.
At first when he got nerfed I didn't notice much difference but the more I played him the more I realized it was actually quite a big deal.
When I play against wraith as survivor now I don't see nearly as much of him trying to uncloak around loops anymore since you simply can't/the lunge doesn't go far enough for that to work in some places it used to.
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Your idea of no tiers is a completely different ball game there.
There will be a problem of getting people to prestige 3 a killer because the addons are all same tier. So the bonus in rarity for prestige matters less.
How to price them, bloodweb them etc is another issue.
And then there's a variety issue and balancing issue. Sometimes you want an addon to give maybe a 10m effect. Placing 10m on 1 addon means that he can take another addon. Having tiers, you can make him take 2 addons to add up to 10m.
All that being said, I think the current tier thing is perfect, just that some effects need to be tweaked just a slight bit.
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You don't need to "get people to prestige". In fact, given that the "bonus drop rates" for higher tier addons is so small that it can't even be measured to show a tangible effect across hundreds of bloodwebs averaged out, it's actually in your best interest not to prestige at all. If they wanna incentivize it, they could do so easily.
There's no sense in refusing to consider changing a poorly designed system just bc it renders the systems built upon it redundant. Especially if those systems sole purpose for existing is to attempt to mitigate the original one's flaws.
Your example is easy.
Say 10m is a balanced yet strong version of the effect you've designed. In the tierless system, you make the addon 8m. and let the "echoed" effect of not using any other addons, be 12m. A very strong version of that effect, but a gamble, since you forego any others.
There doesn't need to be any more nuance than that, and honestly? In practice, there isn't. No one uses the brown or yellow addons unless they've run out of Purples/Greens, or if they're like Demo and their only good addons are yellow/brown, and all the rest suck.
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I mean people don't need to prestige but it does grant higher rewards so they need to rework that for killers since the only real thing that matters in rarity is addons. Offerings present a very minimal effect even in the purple tiers.
Aside from that, there's a better idea, that "echoed" thing. Nice idea there. You should have voiced your ideas first tho if you had one.
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I outlined the basics of this "echoed" idea in the post you were responding to.
Imo they should do something else/different/better for incentivizing prestige systems. Just like they should actually do something for the devotion levels.
I'll probably write up a suggestion for the tierless addons/echoed addon system at some point. Glad you liked it tho. :D
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When you combine anti-loop, map presssure with free movement, some stealth and a wide array of good add-ons, you essentially get an easier version of Blight.
I could see the nerf coming from a mile away.
Bhvr is fine with meta killers, as long as they aren't too simple to pick up and directly pubstomp with AND they aren't included in the base game.
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Since they nerfed him it's not fun anymore to play him.
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Yeah, the nerf hurt him way too much and was completely unnecessary. He had one of the highest kill rates, but the DEVS THEMSELVES said we shoud't judge based on the statistics alone. If stats were the only information needed for balance, than Deathslinger nerf would make no sense, since his killrate was the 8th lowest.
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Exactly, majority calling for buffs has just made him weaker in the grand-scheme.
Now he is only good with certain builds. Imagine being so weak you can't even get confirmed hits at LT-tiles XD he is only intimidating when you get caught out of position or caught peeling away to a new tile, but even then, you can just body block him and stop him overtaking you lol you have to chase tiles uncloaked which means yoy have no power, otherwise it makes windows infinites. And pallets should never get dropped while cloaked because he cannot hit you nor catch up with his lunge on most pallet tiles XD least fun killer to play as in the game now.
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And then they also nerf pinhead who also had a high kill rate thanks to survivors disconnecting.
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I think it's really silly that disconnecting counts as a kill for the sake of kill rates.
Also I could understand people DCing against a mother-daughter ring + purple duration addon spirit or old iri head huntress, but pinhead? pffft the worst he has is Fang + Aura addon or Double solve time + hoarder, neither of which are problematic. When you and your teammates have half a brain...
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And therein lies the problem... A brain is required. 🤔
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