DS should be disabled the MOMENT all 5 gens are done, period
how many times do we get 1 survivor and the last gen pops and all survivors are healed and we try to get someone else but then the survivor on hook get unhooked and we try to secure the kill and down them but still go after the other survivors to catch someone else and they all leave the match and the survivor slowly crawl at the exit and we pick them up and no you tunneled F U I am out, how is this ######### ######### fair? what am I suppossed to do? watch you get unhooked and let you go free? DS should simply be disabled when all gens are done, the game is over, tunneling and camping is totally allowed when all gens are done and DS should never trigger in the end game.
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Naw, and I don't even run DS.
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So their perk is supposed to be disabled because you couldn't confirm an earlier kill? How is that fair?
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DS is in the most balanced state it has ever been in. It does not need additional nerfs, because you lost a game.
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they didn't get tunneled all game? well good, they experienced the whole match, it's over, if they die, they die, they shouldn't be able to freely walk at the exit because they are the only one I could get
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I disagree, the survivors played the match with 3 perks so they should be allowed to use DS at endgame.
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mind saying why?
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They should have a killer that can confirm kills, too.
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If the game is over when 5 gens are completed then why should you get to hit anyone and hook them? Not being a smart butt, I'm a killer main. By what you are saying the game is over when that 5th gen is done. If you can use perks such as NOED or Blood Warden etc, then why cant DS be used?
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Why did you not go after the person unhooking? Why did you let that person get unhooked? Why didn't you take Rancor? Why did you hook them so close to the gate? Why didn't you bring a mori? Why didnt you force DS earlier? Why didnt you just play Pyramid Head if you're trying to tunnel the person out?
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Because noed and bloodwarden are end game perks while DS is a mid game perk, difference
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What makes it a mid-game perk? I understand you stating NOED and Bloodwarden are activated at the end game but where does it state DS is only used mid-game? I don't see the difference you are referring to.
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ok because if I do not have a insta down killer it means I can only give 1 hit at the time, it means 1 take a hit, the other unhook, then 2 body block and so if I managed to get the one that got unhooked that's because they only require 1 hit while there are still 2 that are 2 hits from getting downed, hitting 1 means 1 still body block keeping safe all the others.
Going for the unhooked survivor at this point is my ONLY option to hopefully secure a kill, I shouldn't be punished with DS when that's the only thing I can do, if I hit all survivors they all got their speed boost to the exit so I get no one
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because if you get ot use DS it'S either early game from tunneling or mid game, when the gens are done the game is over and so any play style from the killer is allowed at this point to secure kills or they will lose, DS is literally the biggest F U to killers when it's their only way to secure a kill, the exits are open, you are the only one I can get in 1 hit, hitting anyone else means they run at the exit and so does the unhooked, I can't get anyone else or they all get out, DS is literally the "immunity" at the end game, before surviovrs could still work and heal, it got removed gladly, but it remains a jailfree card at the end game, which ######### sucks.
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Because they all body block, because if I am not a insta down killer I can't stop a unhook, because who use that? if it's my only option I have no choice but I always bring them far if I can, what tells you it's their second hook? could be their first, to lose precious seconds? no thanks, because I don't enjoy it's playstyle.
happy?
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I agree, but only when tunneling is disabled within the first part of the game. Because there is no reason to tunnel at 4-5gens. Yet people still do it.
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I feel this would have almost no impact, but I don't see the reason - they were not contributing to completing the generator, just dont tunnel, if needed, run Hex: No one Escapes Death
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I would say by that mindset flashlights, BT, Flipflop, Unbreakable, Sabotage would be in the same category. It seems you are basically saying if you down someone at the end they should go to the hook without a chance of getting off your shoulder within the 16 seconds afforded by the game once you pick them up.
I suggest picking your poison. Run gen slowdown, healing slowdown etc to bog the mid-game down or bring in Now way out, bloodwarden and NOED or rancor to fight the end game. There are other solutions to your problem I feel other than nerfing a viable perk.
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If done effectively, you can knock a guy out with 4 gens left, crippling the survivors ability to win
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DS shouldn't be a perk that punishes both Killers who try to kill someone too quickly and Killers who try to play around the perk. When "don't let DS activate" and "force the DS activation" are two actual pieces of advice when trying to figure out how to counterplay the perk, we have a problem IMO.
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If they make it to EGC with the perk still up then you didn't play around the perk. You gave them a free DS in EGC.
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So how do you play around the perk?
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Tunnel through it like a Chad.
[edit]
Or camp the hook if you think they'll have it, or slug them and camp them on the ground.
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So the way to play around it is to intentionally play into it.
EDIT: Or to just sit around and doing nothing while gens fly. Am I understanding this correctly? This is the counterplay to DS?
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I mean, I feel that denying a DS two minutes into the round is not playing into it. And I think completely disrespecting it is also not playing into it.
Giving them a free DS in EGC because you're afraid to pick them up is playing into it.
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"And I think completely disrespecting it is also not playing into it."
That is where I disagree. In fact, I would say I disagree with that completely in that completely disrespecting it is the exact definition of "playing into it."
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Glad we got that out of the way. I can see we won't agree, because it really is as simple as disable the perk as soon as you can.
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"disable the perk as soon as you can"
And that is the problem.
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the perk is fine. strong at end game for sure, the problem itself is not DS is the fact that 4 survs can use it at the same time. thats the broken thing. if somehow survivors werent allowed to repeat perks or at least certain perks would be way more interesting....
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I'm sorry, what is the problem?
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The fact that part of "playing around it" involves directly playing into it.
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DS is already very situational and it's the most balanced it has ever been. It doesn't need any nerfs.
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Sure, deactivate all killer perks and bloodlust when all 5 gens are done, period.
Why are you trying to secure a kill when the game is over, it’s not fair for the survivor!! /s
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A KIller shouldn't be able to kill only BULLIED in DBD.
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I guess we already disagreed on the definition of playing into it, huh.
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If the perk is actively designed to disincentivize tunneling, then intentionally forcing its activation is absolutely playing into it.
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I mean if survivors didn’t unhook that survivor with DS, that killer would have only had 1 kill anyway.
So the best thing to do is to force a trade. Which is equivalent to securing a 1k. Sometimes that can also turn into a snowball.
I don’t know how they would change that considering the alternative when survivors don’t run DS is just to die. Because survivors do not have built-in counters.
So my opinion is that at that point it becomes very situational on both sides. Because even when you have DS if the door is not close enough, there is no way they are getting out.
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Regardless of whatever you think of DS, it’s still supposed to do it’s job at endgame or midgame when you tunnel to get a kill. That’s what the perk is supposed to counter.
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I think removing it from the game and nullifying it is the opposite of that if you do it as soon as you feasibly can.
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I would make the stun goes up to 7sec to heavily punish tunneler. But disable when 5 Gens done.
I play survivor more nowaday. And when I play Killer, I dont tunnel or camp. The fact that DS actual punish tunneler less than fair play.
I was not yet in chase, so when unhooking happened, I went back to hook and chase unhooker. I did an ok job without tunnel or camp as Trapper, as I also dont kill until 5 Gen done. 5 hooks and Gates powered. My whole Endgame build activated (Nowayout, Rancor, Noed, BW). I was able to down/hook some. Then I got constant DS because I didnt tunnel earlier.
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please no.
7 seconds?
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The Killer has no counter to DS. Feels bad.
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Down a freshly unhooked survivor, pick him up:
- No DS? Back to hook
- Has DS? Now he doesnt have DS and its free to tunnel.
If you dont tunnel freshly unhooked survivor, beside you have to make a longer chase (vs healthy unhooker), you also risk that unhooked survivor still have DS in end game.
DS is likely to encourage Killer to tunnel than not. The punishment it gives to tunneler is far less than fair play
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One kill is still one kill. Or it could be missing out on the second kill.
Also, hook trading is not terribly reliable at the end of the game (unless you are a Killer with a built-in one-shot), from my experience. Particularly not if there are multiple Survivors crowding at the hook.
I don't think there should ever be a situation where the Killer has zero chance to prevent the escape, even if the hook is right by the gate. Even if a SWF team goes into full-synergy mode, that's still not as much of a guarantee of an escape as someone with an active DS while close enough to an Exit Gate.
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True, there is nothing that makes me want to tunnel someone than when they use DS.
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Activating it is the opposite of nullifying it. Activating it is making it do exactly what it is intended to do, which to prevent a single hook and heal one health state.
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That is one hell of a run-on sentence.
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...But now it's out of the game, and ideally around when gen first gen pops, if not sooner.
[edit for clarity]
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1) It did its job. In fact, it did its job in arguably the second best time for it to do its job (with the only better time being at the end once the gates are powered). The fact that it's single-use only doesn't change that.
2) If you're in a position where you can get two downs on the same person without losing a gen, then either that player is bad, you're hardcore camping/tunneling, or both. That's not a point in favor of DS being non-problematic IMO.
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I don't see the problem with tunneling through the perk. It does such a great job of preventing it and all. lol. In fact, I think I even opened the conversation saying to/that I just tunnel through it. Glad we agree that works, apparently.
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Tbh its sentece fragment issues.
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