NOED isn't rewarding poor gameplay from Killers, stop complain, do bones!
hey,
there have been many threads posted about this totem perk and I'm not saying that all survivors are too lazy to make totems, because that's just a bad statement and doesn't help anyone. The only real reason many players complain about Noed is because they lost a game because of this perk. There is no other explanation for this and it doesn't matter what justifications come from the players involved. In principle, it's always the same.
But there are also moments when the game is very tight and the survivors just don't have time to look for all the totems. Especially when someone uses a strong killer with 3 slowdown perks on a map with very well hidden totems. ( Meanwhile there are very many tools to find totems, no matter how well they are hidden ) However, I would like to point out the following points, which are often ignored by survivors. ( I play both sides myself and can therefore judge this well )
1. the killer plays the whole time only with 3 Perks before the Exitgates are activated.
2. noed can be completely deactivated by survivors.
3. for example, if the killer is not lucky enough to get many survivors before the Exitgates are activated ( for whatever reason ), then the survivors should still be able to clean/destroy totems without the pressure ( the time pressure to make yourself ) that gives the killer no noed advantage.
I think, if the survivors allow the killer to get kills at the end with noed, ( for whatever reason ) then they have made mistakes in the endgame. So it is up to the survivors and not the killer. Do I think this perk is perfectly balanced? Yes, definitely. You can't balance a totemperk any better than that.
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So, NOED "is" rewarding the Killer for bad plays. Just Survivor bad plays of rushing before thinking/planing instead of their own.
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I've always been very iffy on this perk as a killer main, and I've said on countless threads I'd rather it reworked to keep the same late game boost purpose with a bit more balance.
My current problem isn't the do bones arguement...sort of. The problem is in swf they're at fault if it doesnt get cleansed while if its four solos, the four solos can't do much, not near as efficiently anyways, which is my problem with this perk.
I'd like if it was made not to be a hex perk anymore, make it so every survivor on death hook becomes exposed, or something similar anyways, and give a speed boost for each survivor on death hook to separate the tiers.
But then again maybe I'm in a minority, glad you were civil in this post as most posts like this are usually much more aggresive.
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I wish there was a ui element that showed the reamaining totems in the match. Feel like that would balance out the argument of "cleanse bones" when most people solo q.
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I think it's as much a "crutch" perk as it is "crutch" for survivors to get downed by zombies. it's avoidable the overwhelming majority of the time.
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Try the "Small Game" perk
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Hex perks are high risk high reward, and NOED is the highest they get.
Is that balanced? I guess, but it's not usually 'fair' for whichever side gets the short end.
Too much risk, too much reward.
I'm not a fan of Hex perks in general for this very reason. I think they could all do with a rework that scales according to how many totems remain, 0-5 levels of relative strength.
How this could apply to NOED? Have the number of totems snapshotted when the final gen is done, you get that many tokens, survivors are exposed as long as you have at least 1 token, attacks consume a token. Once you have your tokens they're yours to spend and any further cleansing has no effect, so survivors have to get their bones done before the final gen.
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IF you see a killer that makes 2/3 hooks before gens are done.. 100% he has noed
Post edited by Gcarrara on4 -
Eh.
On one hand, I'm not a fan of NOED. It can be frustrating to play against, especially when combined with NWO.
On the other hand, it's really not that strong unless your team is crazily altruistic. Just sacrifice the person, wait out NWO and leave. It's mostly a tool for securing 1 extra kill. If you've lost more than 1 person before gates, you were probably going to struggle anyway if they had brought any other perks.
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Noed is fine, just tickle the skeletons
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So cleansing 4/5 totems as a Solo Q player should cause you to get hit with instant downs.
NOED is not fair to Solo Q players who are struggling already.
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My issue with NOED is not the intended use of it. People will always argue Survivors have a lot of "second chance" perks and that NOED fits that for the Killer side which is, for me, a valid argument and it can be prevented by doing totems at par with generators.
I complaint of the rather specific situations where the Killer is willingly throwing the match off by camping or tunnelling so other players, SWFs or not, are forced to gen-rush as a means of "punishing" the Killer for camping or tunnelling and despite that they still get hit with NOED.
I wouldn't ask for NOED to be nerfed because it's intended use is to give Killers another chance at winning an otherwise lost match, but I do believe these scummy tactics need to be looked into because, in its current state, NOED does indeed reward poor gameplay Killers.
Post edited by adirgeforthedead on2 -
Solo stomping perk therefore unhealthy game design.
Solos shouldn't have to use perks, items, or offerings for information that SWF get for free and this being the case perpetuates the lack of balance in this game.
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You can't design an asymmetric game of limited information and then decide one side actually needs constant perfect information about almost everything.
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You also can't decide to give imperfect information to some (solos) and perfect information to the other (swf) without the use of a perk, item, offering, or add-on and expect it to be balanced.
So once more, solos shouldn't have to use perks, items, or offerings for information that SWF get for free and this being the case perpetuates the lack of balance in this game.
Buff solo. Buff killer. Buff base game mechanics. Nerf maps. Relax.
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If it's not going to be reworked, then I think at the very least it should warn all the survivors the moment it activates. I know that's not how most hex perks work, but I think this would be a healthy exception.
Ideally, I would want it to be reworked in a way that makes it more fair but also still keeps it a real threat - it is true the killer is playing the rest of the match with 3 perks, and it is a hex after all - it should be a strong perk. But the current suggested "counterplay" of doing all the bones ahead of time isn't really feasible most of the time (and is a rather time-consuming effort to prevent something that may not even exist), and it's an even worse idea now if it means you're denying your teammates from using boons.
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For SWF's maybe, but for solo's its just not.
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Deactivating NOED is easier said than done for solo players. SWF? Cake walk. Solo queue, on the other hand, you can't even tell if the other survivors are doing their job.
It's not healthy for the game, simple as that.
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thats a great idea tbh, swf already have a totem counter so solos should have one as well
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Looping isn't toxic? Just like hooking a survivor isn't toxic.
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For some reason, my quote tag didn't work since it was loading when I clicked post so ignore this.
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I really like that change to NOED.
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I'm not sure if you're joking or...?
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Ah, you're alright. I rarely slug or tunnel but if there is 1-2 gens left and no one is dead, someone has to go lol.
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In this special case I see it differently Karu. If the developers would implement such a feature by default in the game ( as a UI element ), then first: a function of this perk ( small Game ) would be useless and second, noed would have far too much counterplay, because every survivor would automatically know how many totems are still active.
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SWF know that anyway so your argument falls flat. You're trying to prevent what we already have in the game instead of giving everyone access and balancing around that
So once more, solos shouldn't have to use perks, items, or offerings for information that SWF get for free and this being the case perpetuates the lack of balance in this game.
(also please refrain from calling me Karu, GBK works fine though)
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Ok.... Mr GoodBoyKaru! ( why so arrogant ? ). Have you still not understood ? Dead By Daylight is a 4 vs 1 and 100% balance will never happend. When will people finally realize that ?
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"why so arrogant"
It's related to trauma from my past that makes me greatly uncomfortable. That's the only reason.
"Dead By Daylight is a 4 vs 1 and 100% balance will never happend. When will people finally realize that ?"
No but we can bring it closer by having the devs balance for 2 categories (survivor, killer) than 3 (solo, swf, killer)
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Small gane
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Solos shouldn't have to use perks, items, or offerings for information that SWF get for free and this being the case perpetuates the lack of balance in this game.
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Add voice comms, balance game around SWF.
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Whenever the developers implement a feature for solo players, swf players will also benefit from it. This should not be forgotten. You can't balance separately. It doesn't work in DBD, because we all know that this game is designed for solo players.
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Penalise SWF somehow, don't throw all notion of imperfect information out the window for everyone else.
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Except for the things swf already have idk what you're not getting here
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Noed doesn’t reward bad gameplay from the killer, it rewards the killer from bad gameplay from the survivors. Do bones simple as.
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This always assumes SWF is perfect about communicating everything, so might as well give perfect info.
But as many, many SWF players seem to want to say in defense of SWF balance, they're not that perfect and some of them only want to play with friends, not perfect comms. Which, if true, means this also buffs SWF even more. And then, now that SWF has better base information, they can communicate about that even more.
Buffing solo to have the information skilled SWF theoretically has gives skilled SWF even more information.
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You just don't understand this: no matter how the developers act. It automatically affects 2 sides. There is no third. SWF is not a third. ( only you claim that ) You can't balance separately for solo players, it just doesn't work. Everything the developers put into the game for solo players is at the same time something that works for SWF players.
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NOED doesn't reward bad play, because the end game is a legitimate part of the game as well and there are many perks that are designed to work around the end game. NOED doesn't reward bad play any more than Blood Warden or No Way Out does.
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that's exactly how it is
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Nerfing killers needs to stop.
Also, nerfing Survivors needs to stop.
Let the complainers keep complaining.
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Voice comms are not the solution to bring soloQ to SWF level. You would need a universal translator as well. And you would still just penalize those that don’t want to use voice comms.
bring soloQ closer to SWF Level, some form of totem counter, a miniscule info system (getting camped, need help, going for unhook, doing gen), chase indicator like obsession already has. Something on those lines. These things would not really help SWF more as they already have access to these information and they would still have it easier. But it could close the gap a little more.
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Yeah many swf are ######### but how many times do we say to not balance for the bad players?
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You're missing the second part: good SWF will get even better, because now they have more information to go on, which means more can be inferred and communication is even easier.
All you do with this change is make it miserable for killers, because now they're at a massive information disadvantage against every damn team regardless of skill. And high-level killers would have a hell of a time ever outplaying SWF.
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They have more info to go on?
So you mean to say a totem counter will buff SWFs who can say "I cleansed a totem" and then have others Chip in like "oh yeah Shack totem is done too, saw one near the crane" etc?
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The reason why players complain is most killers that use NOed camp/patrol the hook and do nothing all game.
What is the counter to camping? That's right rush gens😃😂
I've notice in some of my games killer camps everyone rushes gens. Killer leaves the hook for a sec. or a brave soul attempts the rescue BOOM! Last gen is done NOed.
I look at it if the killer isn't doing to good struggling or camping from the start of the match there's a 85-90% chance they have NOed.
That's why I break the totems on my travels next to gens before I start working on the gen.
Totems before gens last gen left I make a totem run.
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Blood warden and No way out require the killer to catch and hook survivors. That's effort on their part. Something they have to work for.
They don't have to do anything to get a speed boost and insta down ability from NOED.
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Moot discussion. He-who-shall-not-be-named can only play with noed = noed won't get changed.
Remember the strange case of Huntress' Lullaby. BHVR balance choices are formally justified using 'numbers' and intended/unintended, but emotional decisions also carry a lot of weight in the process.
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If it were not a hex, there would be no reason to touch dull totems. They would be redundant as a mechanic, Pentimento flat out wouldn't work, and all the killers who don't run noed would lose the time it buys for them by getting survivors to cleanse them in case. All round losses for the killer side whether you like the perk or not.
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I'll admit that's a side to the perk I've never thought about. I'll have to rethink how I'd balance it due to such.
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Thanks for asking for Noed nerf. Cant wait til this perk gets gutted.
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That's what most people overlook with noed. It isn't there to be a strong endgame perk in most cases, it's intended as the stick to motivate survivors to spend time doing something other than gens. It has to be a threatening perk or people ignore totems.
However most survivors see it as "how dare I have to actually adapt my gameplay to a perk" while killers are juggling 16 second chances that they have to play around.
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