http://dbd.game/killswitch
Why do killers get no information regarding what Boons are active?
If survivors are effected by hexes they get the little ‘cursed’ symbol and even get told which hex is active
I just had a game where I downed a survivor, they got back up so I figured ‘Unbreakable’. Then they got back up again and obviously they were using the new Boon: exponential
but here’s the problem, I had no idea she was even using it, there was no visual cue on my screen, and I couldn’t hear any “soft chimes” so it didn’t even cross my mind that she was in the range of a Boon
If survivors get information regarding Hexes then it’s only fair killers get the same with Boons
Comments
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I suppose the argument may be that Hexes affect the Survivor, whereas Boons do not directly affect the Killer, so maybe that's why nothing shows up, as there are no actual status effects in play on the Killer (although I suppose the one which hides scratch marks could be argued to be an effect on the Killer, even if the scratch marks technically belong to the Survivor).
I'm just arguing to be a devil's advocate though. I think that something to tell you what Boons are in play (not where they are, just a status effect), might be good. As they feel too strong atm.
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Honestly, probably because it didn't occur to the devs to add it.
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I think it makes sense. Hexes affect survivors negatively, boons do not directly affect killers (i.e. give them slower movement speed, longer attack cooldown, etc.).
Also, not all information is equal in this game. And that's on both sides.
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I don't think the killer needs to know what boon totem specifically is up, because that's - so far - something they can figure out by watching its effects, and because hexes are designed for survivors to need to cleanse them whereas boons are designed for snuffing them to be an option you have if you think it's more beneficial than just ignoring it for now.
What I do think is more reasonable is having the audio cue be made louder towards the edges of the radius- it's loud as all hell when you're right up on the thing, but really quite at the edge of its effective range.
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As mentioned in my earlier post, you could definitely argue shadowstep affects Killers.
Even if, from a programmatic standpoint, the scratch mark belongs to, or is spawned by, a Survivor, the fact a Killer cannot see them is arguably a massive "negative" effect, to use your term.
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This logic doesn't hold up.
If I have Hex: Haunted Ground, or Hex: Retribution, you absolutely do not need to cleanse my totems.
Then you have Hexes which are weaker than others. Obviously there is more of a need to remove Devour Hope at 4 stacks, then to remove Third Seal at 1 stack.
Your argument is basically that Boons are designed to be weaker and therefore its acceptable for them to be snuffable and harder to discover. This is absolutely not the case, CoH is now one of the most powerful perks in the game, and is way more powerful than many hexes.
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So, obviously Haunted Grounds and Retribution are designed with the base assumption that if a survivor sees a hex, they should want to cleanse it. Those perks strengthen my argument, not weaken it, those perks would be literally useless if survivors didn't have a heavy incentive to cleanse (or bless over) a hex.
Some hexes being weak also doesn't undermine their core design, which is supposed to be perks that impose hefty negative effects onto survivors that encourage them to hunt for its associated totem. I'm fully aware that Lullaby, Third Seal, and a few others are not good perks, but they're not good perks because they don't fit this intended function.
Boons are supposed to be weaker. Circle of Healing being absurdly overpowered is a problem with that perk. The killer is supposed to have snuffing as an option, but still be able to play around the boon if they decide that their time is better spent finishing a chase or interrupting a specific action- look at Shadow Step and Exponential, you still ultimately don't want them to be up but they're also not so potent that you can't get away with prioritising something else before snuffing them.
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Then why do killers not get a popup when Iron Will is in play? Same idea, no?
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"Boons are supposed to be weaker"
Has this been stated as such by devs?
You raise a valid point that specifically it could just be CoH thats OP, but there's only three, and CoH hasn't exactly set a great precedent, and I'm assuming the Unbreakable Boon is going to end up being more powerful than many of the Hexes.
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No, I am just assuming that based on the way boons have been discussed and the fact that one of them is absurdly, wildly more powerful than either of the other two. Utility buffs in a small area that don't affect the core objective, as they have been described, implies to me that they're not supposed to be as game-changing as hexes are while they're up.
Exponential is not going to be stronger than most hexes, nah. It's so situational and easily played around that it's basically only gonna see use when the lit totem is on a different floor to the slugged survivor, as far as I can see.
It's definitely just CoH that's OP. Shadow Step is far more balanced (albeit really annoying on some maps) and Exponential is lowkey kind of garbage, I'll take those two over CoH any day.
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I think that is slightly different though.
Iron Will completely removes the sound from the Survivor (as another Survivor, you can see if a teammate has Iron Will). It's not taken the ability to hear sounds from the Killer.
Scratch marks however, can only be seen by the Killer. So when you are taking away scratch marks, I could definitely argue you are removing an ability from the Killer.
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Lucky Break then. Removes scratch marks and blood. No indicator to the killer it is in play.
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Fair, yes now you mention it, Exponential is more situational than the other perks, given you have to be downed within range, and it can be totally prevented by not slugging anyway.
"Utility buffs in a small area that don't affect the core objective"
So I assume you are quoting here so these may not be your words, but I'd disagree with that description, Survivors healing at a faster rate does affect the objective, it is all time savings that can be converted into gens. The other two boons can help you not die and therefore contribute to the objective.
You could argue many of the Killer hexes don't affect the objective, cause they don't directly result in kills!
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I agree with this - for now.
Right now there aren’t a lot of boon perks so I don’t think it’s a major issue/the killer can often figure it out anyway. When we eventually have more boon perks though then it may become a problem not just for killers but also for other survivors - I’ve already seen survivors run to a boon to heal only to find their teammate only brought shadow step and they wasted their time running to the totem for nothing. (Almost nobody brings shadow step rn without COH, but that’s besides the point.)
I 100% agree that the sounds need to be louder on the edge of the boon radius though. You basically can’t hear it at all if there’s any other noise and that’s not how it should be.
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You can still see other scratch marks, I guess it would be clunky to have some active effects indicator saying "you can't see scratch marks for Survivor X"
Also I think when you get hit by Lucky Break, it's pretty obvious so you don't really need a status effect. If all scratch marks are disabled in an area, then I'd still argue this is a "status effect" on the Killer. But I suppose the perk is all about stealth anyway, so yes, it would make it less useful I suppose to advertise it.
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Well, consider it this way- healing is not the survivor's objective, nor is looping. They can complete their objective and win without doing either of those two things- when the devs say that it's not going to affect the core objective, they mean (again, I assume) generators and exit gates, because those are the survivor's objective. Contrast that to hexes, which either affect generators (Ruin, Lullaby) or lethality/chases (Devour, Crowd Control, NOED, Haunted Grounds), and those things are the killer's objective.
At least... in general. Hexes have been in the game for longer and they seem to have had a looser conception of them from the start, so there are weirder ones like Third Seal that don't actually affect the objective, as well as utility/support hexes like Undying and Thrill. It's a little less restrictive on the hex side, but so far, they have been sticking to their description for boons.
That's not to say they're not strong effects, but outside of how busted strong CoH is, survivors don't complete their objective faster just because a boon totem is up- even when you're both in the radius, that survivor isn't advancing the game, they're just buying time for their teammates to do it or extending their own uptime. So far, I do think the "utility buffs" concept is bearing out, and they are - CoH aside - weaker than the average hex.
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"They don't complete the gens faster because a boon totem is up"
No, but they might complete the gens in a situation where they wouldn't have, if the boon wasn't up. So, indirectly or not, it's helped them complete their objective.
Well you've just saved me googling all the Hexes by posting the ones which don't fit in with this pattern.
I could use the same logic really. Crowd Control blocks windows, but Killers don't need to block windows to complete their objective (just loop for longer).
Much like, CoH makes healing faster and enables self healing, but Survivors don't need to be able to heal to complete their objective, just don't get injured.
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Right, but that's kind of what a utility buff is, wouldn't you agree? Something that doesn't directly contribute to the objective, but makes it more likely by keeping you around to complete the objective through other means, or by keeping attention off you. That's exactly what it does, and that's why the killer doesn't need to destroy them right away, because the danger they pose to your win state isn't direct and can be circumvented through other means- contrasted to at least the stronger hexes, that directly contribute to keeping survivors from their objective or make downing them easier.
...Again, with exceptions. Hexes are a little more varied than sticking to a very rigid formula, and boons may branch out too later on down the line, but right now they fit their mould much more uniformly.
Also, y'know, CoH is busted and you really should prioritise snuffing that one because it's OP, but we're talking broad strokes rather than just that perk.
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Wait so we now expanded Hexes to "directly contribute to keeping survivors from their objective or make downing them easier"
I thought the original definition was, Hexes contribute directly to the objective. Boons are utility and not direct.
But now its Hexes contribute directly to Killers objective, or mitigate Survivors objective.
But anyway I feel now we're arguing over words any way used by BHVR. If they genuinely said "boons do not contribute to the objective", I would suspect they were just saying this out of fear people would say they're OP, or that they'd impact gen speeds. But I don't even know who said this quote so I can't make that assumption.
Probably just gonna back out of this one anyway as I drove this thread way off topic
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Perhaps that's just my explanations- I don't see a difference between those two things because delaying generators and downing survivors is the killer's objective.
That's fair, though! I believe the quote I'm remembering was from the most recent QnA stream, if you wanted to go rewatch that to confirm. I'm going off memories, I may have mixed some stuff up.
Have a good one, dude.
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Would argue with that, I think the Killers objective is only to get kills.
Technically, even if you get 4 kills with NOED after all the gens are done, you still won.
This is another reason why I feel this whole "objective-based" thing doesn't fit with Hexes and Boons, as many of the Hexes do impact gens.
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thanks, you have a good one too bro
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It does remove scratch marks from the killers vision though, so it could be argued that does affect the killer
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Let me try another way then. Killer hear thunder. Killer enter certain area of map, and suddenly no scratch marks. Killer hear boon totem. Killer now know Shadow Step in play.
How’s that?
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survivor work on gen. survivor stop working on gen, gen regresses. Survivor now know ruin in play
How’s that?
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So wouldn't it be better, if survivors got only icon when they get under hex effect? So they have to figure it out too? To make it balanced, you would make it that if one survivor gets under hex effect, every survivor will see icon, so soloQ is not punished.
For example Undying is quite bad that it gets told to survivors. Survivors know that they need to look for at least 2 hexes, it would be way better without aura reading imo.
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Problem is that shadowstep is only boon you can tell for 100%, but you have to chase survivor there. What if it is in corner of map and you just don't see auras?
They picked up, was it unbreakable or new boon?
They healed, was it medkit, other survivor or CoH?
Best way is to play like you do with DH etc. you always play like they have all boons, problem is that this approach nerf some killers a lot. Mainly Oni and Twins.
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There are multiple perks with the same abilities besides the ones you mentioned that overlap (self-healing, picking oneself up, etc.). - and that’s even without boons. So the point is kinda moot.
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Let's be clear, I don't want killer to get more info, I want survivors to get less info.
I just think that it is unfair that survivors get free information even tho it's way easier to find out what perks killer has. Killer usually has to pay quite high price to find out about survivor's perks.
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Solo queue already has it real rough without some base kit info, which info are you wanting to take away?
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Survivors would get only icon when they get under hex effect. So they have to figure it out too.
To make it balanced, you would make it that if one survivor gets under hex effect, every survivor will see icon, so soloQ is not punished.
For example Undying is quite bad that it gets told to survivors. Survivors know that they need to look for at least 2 hexes, it would be way better without aura reading imo.
By your logic, denied aura reading is not negative, right? So why is negative that your aura is revealed? You don't get it for BBQ. So why you get told there is Undying?
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It wouldn’t really make sense, any knowledgeable survivor who knows all the hexes already immediately knows what hex it is anyways. So why remove the specific information from the survivor’s view? It wouldn’t change anything.
Undying simply matches every other hex in revealing itself to survivors. Even if you removed the aura reveal aspect, survivors would still see the cursed icon from whatever other hex is still standing after Undying is cleansed or blessed.
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Alright, Undying + Devour hope?
They don't get icon till it's activated, but because of Undying, survivors are going to look for second hex.
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Well in that specific scenario, I would argue the issue lies more with Devour than Undying. DH shouldn’t be applied to a totem until it has two tokens. And the same for every other hex until it first takes place. And in the event a boon totem is the only available totem for it, the hex would override the boon.
Those would be my changes anyways.
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Damn, Devour hope would be super broken this way.
That effect is just too good for this to work.
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I respectfully disagree! Why should it be cleansable or blessable before it even has any effect at all? Same with the others. Two tokens is just the haste effect, and remember DH rewards leaving a hooked survivor (i.e. not camping). I see it as a win-win perk: survivors don’t get camped, and killers earn time while survivors search for the totem.
It loses any significance when cleansed prior to at least two tokens. Which, fair to say, can be said of all the other hex perks. But this would increase their lifespan at least a little.
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I mean, it would be interesting to test it, but I think it would be just too good.
It would work if you showed survivors that there is devour activated (which I really don't want) from that second token. So they have time to find it.
This would be kinda NOED on steroids.
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Definitely don’t change giving notification prior to the first exposed hit! They would still have time to find it after the second unhook.
The difference between DH and NOED is vast. DH rewards killers for hooking, and leaving hook in search of other survivors and/or patrolling gens. NOED rewards killers for... having at least one dull totem on the match and allowing survivors to finish their objective.
DH gains its momentum usually mid-game, NOED end-game only.
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It would have a good side, that this might force survivors to actually care about totems from start, just from fear of Devour hope.
It might be better to assign DH to one totem -> if they cleanse / bless, it's gone, but that totem looks like dull till you get that second token.
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