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So people dcing against Artist now smh
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If you chase a survivor that's good enough to run you for more than 30 seconds without getting hit, it's your lack of skill that is costing you the win. Your lack of skill in the chase and the lack of game sense to know you're outclassed and to go find a weaker target. Anyone can hold M1 and do a gen. Not everyone can run a killer for any length of time.
Just admit that you want survivor skill out of the equation entirely. It shouldn't matter what we do or how. We should just jump on hooks because you picked killer. That's exactly what you say and what you and everyone else on this extremely biased forum ever want. None of you actually care about beating your opponent. You want it handed to you.
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You need to stop this generalization.
It is not only disrespectful, but downright childish.
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"I don't want to 4k every game. I just want every survivor to go down in less than 30 seconds regardless of how well I play."
If you aren't lying, then you're lacking self-awareness to a staggering degree.
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Respect is earned. Demanding free downs because you picked killer is definitely not worthy of respect.
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That's fine if you feel that way. But that's not what the devs hear from all the feedback.
Pinhead got complained about that if he built around controlling the box he was capable of preventing gens get done therefore he got nerfed.
Deathslinger got complained about because if a Slinger player got good enough at the killer they could shut down most loops and therefore he got nerfed.
It's a trend at this point that any time a killer has something strong going for them, it's "unfun". And it's honestly why I've played far more survivor this year.
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Ah, I now I can't really reply because you chose Pinhead as the example.
I never faced this killer. Not even once.
Left the game way before his reveal.
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but fact is, some people do enjoy those scenarios, which is why its impossible to say whether something was objectively fun or unfun.
we can make the assumption how most people feel about something based on what we experience here on the forum / ingame, but we can never speak for everyone.
the quotation marks i end up using when talking about fun in DbD have two good reasons to exist:
1) i am not the one making the claim of her being "unfun", i am quoting others saying it (in this scenario the people DCing that OP mentioned) - the statement does not necessarily represent my own opinion on the matter.
2) there is no clear definition to what "fun" in DbD even is (everyone has a different understanding of what it is, as proven by the examples given above), therefore using the term in a way that implies that it had one would be wrong. You cant make the overall statement that something was generally "unfun", all you can say is that you dont find it to be fun.
also, this is a very bold statement:
In general, Killers dont enjoy Survivors unless they are on the Hook.
not only can i say with certainty that this statement is objectively false, but you are actively putting words in the mouth of every single Killer player out there, even though many never said anything like that or feel that way.
this sentence actually suffers from the exact same problem your previous statement of the Killer being unfun suffers from:
you are trying to speak for everyone on something that has no clear definition and everyone has their own thoughts and opinions on. therefore your statement is automatically untrue because its guaranteed that there are going to be people, such as me, who disagree on it.
all you really have to do here is to add something to your sentence that makes it clear that you are not trying to speak for everyons.
for example you could have said "Just the way BHVR creates Killers so that the only thing you can do is to hold W, which i think is boring"
or "to me it looks like Killers dont enjoy Survivors unless they are on the Hook".
make it clear that this is your subjective opinion and not an objective truth, thats all im really asking for.
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Listen to yourself, mate.
No one here mentioned wanting free downs. Not even once.
That is just unrealistic.
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I want a game where the outcome of chases is meant to be consistent.
If it's expected that equal skill should have a 50/50 outcome, then it shouldn't be the case that a long chase is enough time for half of the survivor objectives to complete across the map.
If the game is supposed to be balanced so that gens can complete in a chase, then the outcome of a chase should always be assumed to be "the Survivor will go down" and the goal is buying as much time as possible.
The way Killer powers are structured and the current and continuing speed of gens suggests that the second one is supposed to be the game's balance. If the game is supposed to be a 1v1 looping skill test, then a lot more needs to be restructured, and the first priority is not complaining about every killer that doesn't play around loops "normally."
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I mean, he's definitely the premier example of a recent release whose power is only somewhat helpful in chases but compensates in strong map pressure... but the ability to keep that map pressure going got super nerfed.
Definitely not sending a good sign for getting non-1v1 focused killers going forward.
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Rework Freddy is another example, because Forever Freddy was "unfun". I was just picking recent changes, but plently of things got nerfed for community feedback for better or worse. The problem is devs don't seem to understand their own game at a higher skill level and are too quick to cater to these demands.
That said, survivors complaining about everything killers have going for them is a more recent trend. Feels like back in 2019 despite the game having objectively more balance issues players on both sides were more than willing to play against strong things and do their best (with some exceptions like Iri Head Huntress) compared to now where it's not uncommon for suicides or d/cs to occur in multiple games back to back.
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Welp...that doesn't like a good situation, at all.
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My guy out here saying killers all want 4k's, but then stating he thinks if he feels he is good enough he should always be able to outrun the killer forever lmao.
Meanwhile survivors need something to ensure they have a way to escape the killer because "You aren't supposed to 4k every time even if you are better." lmao You also keep defending holding W and saying it's like a good thing and people shouldn't complain, but then, do you actually consider yourself skillful if the killer gives up because he can't catch you holding W across red forest?
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Do you guys think everybody should start all of their comments with "In my opinion..."?
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If it's opinion based then yes they should. People act like this game should be balanced around themselves so if Artist is unfun to them then they must nerf Artist to the ground.
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Unless someone is posting something like "Trapper's terror radius is 32 meters" then you should assume they are stating an opinion of some kind. ESPECIALLY if the subject in question is how much fun something is.. because there's no way to objectively measure fun.
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I like the Artist but she was by far the easiest Adept achievement I ever did and that is with the Iridescent 1 pip requirements. I did it with level 1 perks and brown add ons, so I consider her strong as hell. Fun like that cannot last long in this game as the design seems to prefer frustration as our common emotion.
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yes.
when you're talking about your own, subjective opinion, you should mark it as such.
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Ok well .. what you just said is your opinion and.. you didn't say it was an opinion. Why doesn't this rule apply to you?
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She's a strong anti loop killer, which we need.
This is coming from a now survivor main but I always try to see both sides to things.
I like her a lot, she's interesting to go against for sure. Of course a little frustrating but it's because it takes time to figure out good counterplay for a new unique killer.
Her noises though, nerf them a little please😂
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The devs are already preparing the nerf hammer.
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why would i need to specify that it was my opinion when you literally asked me to give my opinion beforehand?
there is a clear difference between stating a fact and an opinion, and you have to make clear which you're doing at any given time.
for example:
a fact is "The Trappers terror radius is 32m" - and an opinion is "that is too big and it should be 24m instead". you can not state both the same way, otherwise you're either going to make the fact look like it was merely an opinion, or the opinion look like it was a fact - both of which would be very wrong and should therefore be avoided.
if you're stating an opinion on something, you need to mark it as such. otherwise you're just causing unnecessary controversy / confusion among everyone reading your post - this is entirely avoidable by taking two seconds more to type something like "IMO" at any point in your sentence.
example:
"The Trappers TR is 32m, which is too big and needs to be 24m instead" sounds quite different to "The Trappers TR is 32m, which IMO is too big and needs to be 24m instead".
and just FYI - this whole discussion started BECAUSE i marked something (whether the Artist was fun or not) as an opinion rather than a fact, which some apparently took an issue with.
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""The Trappers TR is 32m, which is too big and needs to be 24m instead" sounds quite different to "The Trappers TR is 32m, which IMO is too big and needs to be 24m instead"."
No, it sounds exactly the same. It's blatantly obvious that both are opinions.
In my opinion, of course.
Post edited by brokedownpalace on4 -
Disagree. It's usually pretty obvious when people are sharing their opinion on something. That just isn't necessary.
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She certainly needs some m/speed tweak. At least while she is readying her crows, just to decrease her loop potential. Overall, she doesn't look as strong as Nurse
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And as long as you can down a survivor and camp them to death with no hope of retrieval within 2 minutes, the gens have to go the speed they go or no one would ever ever escape. Which I suppose is the point.
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You're assuming you're better because... Oh right. That would be why you didn't 4k.
I never said the "hold w" meta was good. In fact, if you read, you'd see I'm an advocate of looping mechanics, as it requires skill and mind games with the opponent. But even then the killers in this very thread have said that you shouldn't be able to do even that. You should just go down and quickly regardless of how much game knowledge or skill. They have literally said the killer should win every chase and quickly... Because other people might do gens
The people on this forum are hilarious in their killer bias and entitlement to 4k.
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Yeah, you're really not debating in good faith here. I see the core of your point, but it's buried beneath layers of sweeping generalizations that are trivially easy to break in half and those generalizations don't paint you in an honest light.
I play killer to have fun chases, to earn an actually reasonable amount of bloodpoints, and be able to recognize memey situations as they happen, and when I'm not trying to bring my MMR back up, I usually let survivors go at the end unless they do something to un-earn it. I like playing killer more than survivor. Bam. Automatically you're wrong about All Killers.
We'll Make It, Deliverance, Adrenaline, Detective's Hunch, Windows of Opportunity, and Lithe are strong perks that help survivors not die that nobody ever complains about. Bam. Automatically you're wrong about "everything good is broken and needs to be nerfed." I could explain how the vast majority of killers disagree that most other strong survivor perks are a problem, with Dead Hard and CoH being the only ones players consistently take issue with in their current state, but it's easier to just point to the ones literally nobody cares about but are still very much worth running. Still, you can say killer main bias all you like, but whenever I see someone make a thread whining about BT/Unbreakable/DS, the overwhelming response they get is "just don't tunnel/slug/camp."
A survivor that's better than a killer should be able to hold out for a long time (I disagree on indefinitely simply because that isn't balanced in an asymmetrical game, but long enough that committing to bad chases means the killer loses the game, yes), but the nature of a chase isn't just looping. Different killers require different strategies and a killer isn't invalid, unfair, or in immediate need of a nerf if their counterplay isn't standard looping. You complain that it's taking skill out of the equation, but I'd argue inflexibility is unskilled in and of itself, and trash talking 'holding W' just makes you sound petulant that you can't pull your preferred strategy in every game. This has been a thing in the game since Huntress. Nurse, even, though she's a terrible example. Still. It's not new.
I also believe that for the killers who don't have anti-loop tools, it's still not necessarily a matter of skill - I mean, it is, but a killer that plays everything right will still spend an unreasonable amount of time in chase against an equally skilled survivor simply because most maps provide enough resources that, when used perfectly, can stall the killer for deleterious amounts of time, and the killer starts off in a losing position when they need to remove these resources before they can get downs. Which is why 3 gens popping in the first chase is such a common phenomenon. It's often not possible to catch the first survivor earlier than that if they know how to run tiles and the tiles have enough visibility that mindgames are only effective if survivors aren't on their best game. Killer gameplay is very reliant on survivor mistakes; it's why SWFs cause so much fuss. But a survivor that makes minimal mistakes is a difficult opponent to crack regardless of how skilled you are and it comes down to brute force, which - your claim that if you can't down someone in 30 seconds, you suck as a killer? I disagree. If the survivor goes from healthy to downed in under 30 seconds, and they weren't instadowned or caught in a dead zone, they either messed up or they're below average.
Anyway, what I was getting at is that the increased prevalence of anti-loop killers feels like it's in response to this continued failure of map design.
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Oh, and then there's the outright cheaters who use stretched res to disable mindgames on even more loops.
The very possibility of that sours me on looping-focused killers.
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Bro it's kind of funny how some Players I know who think they are good at the game (not really just pallet hold w) is having a mental breakdown over this killer. It was just gold reading their complaints on discord some even contemplated taking a break from DBD lmao.
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I feel like she’s literally perfect for both sides they don’t need to do anything to her
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It really feels like a good chunk of survivors would like all killers to essentially be palette swaps of each other so they can play every match the same way, with the same loadout, and if something forces them to deviate from their usual approach, they get salty af. I really, really resent the sentiment among some that there is a right way the game should be played, and parameters that should be observed.
If the same approach worked for all killers, how boring would that be? I mean you might as well be playing tic-tac-toe.
I have been playing a lot of the Artist, and while I am not a top tier killer by any stretch, I am not bad. And while her anti-loop kit absolutely wrecks bad survivors who seem programmed to run loops the same way even when it is obvious it isn't going to work, good teams can absolutely evade and escape without simply holding w. She can be looped, you just have to be able to think on your feet. I have been dominated by survivors doing just that.
I think the crux of the problem is that the biggest slice of the DBD player base pie casual survivors that are not all that good. They aren't good enough to adapt, and have no real interest in trying. If they can't loop in the usual way, they aren't having "fun". The might watch their fave streamer loop and loop and they just want to emulate that (though it is high comedy running into some cocky 200 hour player who thinks they're somehow Ayrun or something).
Now I am not a great survivor, but I actually welcome deviation from the usual formula, even if I get my butt handed to me, and often tire of running tiles and looping the same way over an over again. Of of the great things about DBD (in theory, at least), it that it requires some dynamic skills.
If people can't adapt to the Artist (or Pinhead, or the Hag, or any other killer that ignore the conventional way of doing things), it's not because she is broken, it's because they might not be as good as they think they are, but most don't want to consider that.
And I absolutely agree with the notion that the game should not be balanced around the 1v1 interactions, but force creativity and teamwork.
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What do you expect, Survivors don't like good Killers. She's not even OP, she can be countered but people who play on easy mode don't want to learn
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Because she's new and people may have to think how to play around her.
Most people are too stupid to do that and will scream for nerfs from day one rather than learn how to avoid her.
The arguments will be in order:
1. OP
2. no counterplay
3. boring/unfun
Let the whining begin...
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That's my favorite part about her lol
I find her fine to go against, but tbf I've only went against like 3 in 20+ matches on crossplay off. And in those matches only one person dced, and it was the killer herself so...
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That's what people seem to want though. A white cube with one swinging arm called generic killer.
It just runs after you while you loop as you please and feel good about yourself.
Anything else is boring, unfun, has no counterplay etc etc etc.
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They don't want to play fighting games because they know those games are actually hard.
Can you imagine survivor mains playing any fighting game? It would be an absolute gold mine of scrubquotes lmao
You would hear some crazy bumb takes like "mixups are unfun to deal with and have no counterplay"
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Meanwhile SWFs are absolutely destroying me on lerys, haddonfield and meatplant :D But yeh, you often see someone that has obviously no clue how to play against her, go down fast and early and then DC :( That is not how you learn to counter Artist! :p By just avoiding her rofl.
She really is pretty easy to counter on half the maps. Just watch some vids or play with her a bit yourself, you will notice fast that smart survivors are REALLY hard to catch.
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Did you play against me yesteday?
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Yep, and I lost pretty hard.
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I'd like an option to mute both of them. Spirit in the lobby makes me want to tear my goddamn ears off, and Artist in the game keeps making me look around for noises that I'm making, not to mention that her crow launch noise sounds like a Claudette getting hit every time.
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I also don't see why the generation of someone has anything to do with this? I could as easily say you have a boomer mentality. Btw your also not entitled an infinite loop. Your literally saying you want this. Stop projecting
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