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Is Pyramid Head tunneling power really fair?
Like bubba's facecamping ability doesn't seem too fair to me... the tunneling ability of Pyramid Head just encourage the killer into more boring behaviour towards the survivors.
What if Pyramid Head tormenting ability rather made the survivor blind/ oblivious/ mangled/ exhausted (etc.)? Survivors could have to undo the torment manually (like a healing prompt)... and then you could make the killer able to torment downed survivor to make it more viable.
Comments
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Is it pyramid heads turn to be whined about? Or is this not a popular trendy "necessary nerf" yet?
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I want pig buffed/ i want deathslinger buffed/ i want oni iri add-ons buffed (etc.) so stop pretending like i want to nerf all killers. I'm just giving feedback towards something i feel is not right.
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Yes it's fair
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Thank you! But in all honesty, it's fair. Tunneling is fair as it's one of the few ways a Killer can get pressure. People on the forums need to remember that boring doesn't mean unbalanced and should be changed
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It's fair because PH is not OP. While it's not "fun" to get tunneled you face a whole team so even if he tunnels 1-2 survivors he still might only get 1-2 kills. Same with facecamping Bubba even if he facecamp he might only get 1 kill so it's not unfair. You can't be selfish thinking "what about me?" when you died but your teammates escaped.
That said I do want MMR to give equal points or point reduction for the whole team in terms of number of escapes or deaths per game. Teamwork teamwork!
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Surely, camping and tunneling is a necessary strategy for killers... i don't have a problem with it "as soon as it is done"; but there is some form of it i find problematic (like bubba camping and pyramid head tunneling).
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I don't think its smart "gameplay wise" to allow some killers to be able to negate any gameplay for one survivor; especially since you can tweak any killer chase power on a certain extent and they can become nurse level threat in terms of chase (and i think that giving good chase power is better gameplay wise).
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His title is "The Executioner". So yes it's fair for him to be able to quickly remove survivors from the match. It's still in the control of the survivors whether or not they get tormented.
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But they're not problematic, they're just using their Power effectively (aside from basement Bubba, that's just funny not effective)
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Its like saying that old brand new parts/ old insta-heals/ old iridescents hatchets weren't problematic either. Its like saying the nerfs to pig add-ons weren't necessary... when they were bullshit if the survivor had bad RNG.
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There's a big difference between an insta Gen, skipping the objective completely and killing someone as quickly as possible, which can still take a while
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Not that much sometimes; especially with those powers and good perks.
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DS is a thing, BT is a thing and DH IS also a thing. Tunneling isn't hard to counter, even if it's a PH
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You're only talking on a team level, not on a singular player level. As i said, its better to enhance killers chasing abilities (and reward skilled killers) rather than making stupid camping and tunneling abilities where a good survivor can't do much about.
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I dont get whats your problem with dorito head, hes a strong killer, but hes neather OP nor a tunnelling machine.
Torment isnt OP or opresive by itself, its a step before being able to use the cage OR if you are lucky, his mini mori.
If anything he needs some small QoL changes to improve his gameplay, hes a bit slugish and stiff on the way he plays, just like other killers they did some unecesary nerfs againts him on the past. His addons NEED a serious check, most are terrible or useless.
Quite honestly your changes dont make sense to me, hes one of the most unique killers on the rooster, strong but not overly OP, unique and fun to play with and overall a fair killer, not just everyone can pick him up and get the best out of him, in unexperienced hands hes very easy to counter
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Survivors are part of a team, their strength should be measured as a team. If a survivor at an individual level is to measure up against a killer, how are they ever going to be able to handle a team.
The cage spawns as far as possible from PH, if the survivors play well together and yes teamwork is part of survivors skill. Then they should be able to prevent you from being tunneled, even by a PH or make sure it costs him the game.
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There’s nothing unfair about tunneling.
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His ability to circumvent any bt/ ds is a problem in the right hands... since those perks were designed to give a chance to survivors to get back into the game.
A survivor always should have a chance to counter a killer with his skill... with bubba and ph, their camping and tunneling powers really doesn't give much counterplay. Those problems shouldn't be be put aside with "be efficient on gens".
With your reasoning, there is nothing wrong with gen speed and nothing should be done about it then.
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To circumvent those perks, the survivor will need to torment themselves and that can be extremely difficult based on the skill of the survivor. Showcasing their ability to do just as you requested.
Additionally the cage creates distance to allow time and the option for survivors to get a safe rescue and at that point the person saving and the rest of the team can provide backup. You should be able to reach a safe area and your skill once again will be the determining factor on whether you go down.
His ability also reduces his own synergy with many strong perks of killers.
Your question is whether it is fair, the answer is yes. Is it different than your standard M1 killer, most definitely. Acting like the skill of a survivor is inconsequential is false, it just makes you seem less skilled. Go try playing PH at a decent level and see how others counter you, maybe you can learn. You stand a chance, but it seems you just want a full proof counter which would leave the killer with no option, ability to showcase their skill.
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They removed the sight on his cages, which was the baseline 'tunneling' problem. Additionally, you cannot go to a cage unless you let yourself get Tormented. The torment trails are flat-out poorly designed and almost never actually worth the killer's effort to place. They are also completely in the survivors' control to avoid, as you can see them easily on every single map, and can safely be crossed by sneaking for one half second. If you are being chased and you run into torment trails, that's on you for running poorly. His whole kit is so wildly over-nerfed to give survivors ludicrous amounts of "Counter Play" that even the suggestion that "there's nothing survivors can do," is hilarious.
If you believe that ONE killer's completely avoidable method of evading DS or BT is unhealthy for the game, then that implies that those perks are absolutely essential to play the game. And if something should ALWAYS be taken, then it should not exist at all. That straight-up means it is too strong.
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You cannot always avoid the torment even if you're a good survivor.
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Isn't that a showcase of a good killer though? You complain that the survivors must be able to counter the killer with skill, but shouldn't the killer be able to do the same?
The reason why you couldn't avoid it is most likely based on a mistake you made previously or the killer plating extremely well.
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He can partially ignore those abilities, but given they are tied out to torment, a power that isnt the easiest to land given its nature, its fair he can bypass certain things, its quite literally the reward from playing it in a smart way. Borrowed time its not even a problem considering the cage its moved as far away as posible from him, the rescue its as safe as it can be, its rate for a dorito head to actually be close to a cage mid rescue. Desisive strike just like the previous its situational, you might or night not ignore it depending on the situation. IF whe were talking about dorito head being able to send people to cages 100% of the time, yea, i might concede to you that it would be very strong, but given its not the case i dont se why his power should be changed to any random debuff, and if anything, doing that change the way you want it it would make him an absolute nightmare for the perks you just mentioned, he wouldnt have ANY need to use hooks at all and he would make BT and DS completly meaningles againts him. On the other hand if the trialls added diferent efects they could go from me to overly opresive:
Blind would be kind of meh, his terror radious its big so it wouldnt make that much of a diference
Oblivious could potentially be to opresive as he has range making him tremendously strong
Mangled doesnt make much sense and would end being redundant as plenty of people run sloopy butcher
Exausted would be absurdly strong on him as torment last forever untill hooked.
Sorry but quite honestly cant get behind this changes at all, he needs small QoL changes, that much its true, but those are minnor things just to make him more fun to play with, at his core hes perfectly fine where he is, as i mentioned, his add ons are the ones that need a serious look at them
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You say like it is so easy to not get tormented and then not tunneled... when i have a different experience.
Edit: anyway, i just feel he is not fun to go against with a strong tunnel ability like that as a solo q player.
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You know what? Just get me back my iri hatchets... and i'd be happy too. They weren't op after all; since you have to aim well.
Edit: anyway, i just feel he is not fun to go against with a strong tunnel ability like that as a solo q player.
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There's nothing unfair about tunneling. It's part of the game.
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There's nothing unfair about survivors doing gens fast... its part of the game.
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Yes :)
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Come on... at least we can agree that gen speed is unfair. No?
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Being skilled means you can deal with more difficult situations, if you just want it to easy then you just lost your argument of that the skill of survivors should allow for counterplay.
It is fair, as both survivors and killers can use their skill. Fun is a subjective matter, it has nothing to do with fairness.
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You can say all what you want... the fact is that Pyramid Head tunneling ability is really unfun/ boring/ unfair as a solo q survivor. People complain about weaker tunneling when there is perks that deal with it. Here nothing does.
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I don't think PH has any issue, bubba is much worse.
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Well i guess i'm the only one seeing a problem anyway.
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I've never said the gen speed was too fast. Nice deflection though.
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Nah, gen speed is fine. What we need are some map tweaks and a rework to the early game.
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I was tunneled by this killer being in a cage...and this should NOT be a thing.
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When i'm talking about gen speed, i don't have a problem with the raw numbers either. Its the early game that seems the most problematic to me. At least we can agree on this (and the necessary map tweaks to loop density also).
I'm afraid we are the only one here that see it as a problem.
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I admit it's weird. Being tunneled while you are in cage...that's not how things works. The cage used to spawn in different location if the killer was there.
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Now that you mention it, i was a bit suprised that Pyramid Head could get so close to a caged survivor without the cage going elswhere (it really bugged me when i played him).
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Fun, is subjective and literally has nothing to with being fair. It is fair, even of you find it unfun. Also, if you want to use those perks, just don't get tormented?
The ability provides the space and time for the skill of the survivors to come into play. The fact that you and your team are incapable of it doesn't change that fact. Tunneling is part of the game, whether that is fun or not is irrelevant.
You are trying to move the goal posts, the question was if it is fair? Yes it is. Whether or not you like it or find it fun is irrelevant.
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I think it's fine. Their ability to use cages to ignore DS and BT comes with the cost of not being able to use killer perks related to hooks. It would be unfair if this was not the case.
That said, I typically just don't use perks like BBQ on PH because I'd rather use perks that don't require me to not use my power to take advantage of them.
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I have played PH a bit since i just bought him, but it was against potatoes still. What i did to them "tormenting around hooks to circumvent ds and bt" looks easily abusable to me. When i'll unlock all perks and get against stronger survivors i'll see better if it is a problem or not.
Edit: ah yes, having fun while playing a video game is irrelevant. Of course.
Post edited by Faulds on0 -
Why is it unfair for Pyramidhead to do what he was designed to do? If you don't run hook related perks, it does not really do anything.
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Why? Because the people that plays the other role might find it too oppressive. Of course, there is not that many Pyramid Head out there... but having playing him a bit (i just bought him): i was shocked of his ability to deny BT and DS very easily, "since i could camp and tunnel a bit too effectively".
Post edited by Faulds on0 -
Okay, this word "oppressive" is getting thrown around too much. Let's circle back to something people keep wooshing on:
You are supposed to be oppressed. Killers are supposed to feel oppressive. THEY ARE TRYING TO CORNER YOU AND KILL YOU. This is not tennis.
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Sometimes killers have too much power in their hand: that's why they reworked pig add-ons... since bad RNG could prevent a survivor from having any chance to escape the reverse bear trap with some add-ons. The fact that PIG is one of the weakest killer in the game didn't change that fact, and wasn't an excuse to keep it. With PH, i feel that there is a similar problem with his tunneling/ camping ability (especially after playing him myself); that's all i want to say.
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Yes, his anti-second chance power is fair.
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You sound a lot like a person that would only play killer; but, don't worry, you are the majority of people on this thread apparently. Anyway, i think i'm done with this topic.
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No please stay, we need you.
And yes, as we know 80% of this forum are killers main, like 80% of DBD players.
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Yes, it´s fair.
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