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Sweaty Survivors Don't Exist
...and an argument could be made that Sweaty Killers don't exist, either.
I feel like a boomer--needing to address this fallacy--with the term "sweaty" only circulating in the gamer community for a little under 4 years now.
A "sweaty gamer" is someone who works harder, not smarter; someone who practices a game's skill mechanics to an extreme, but doesn't fully understand how or why they are applied.
A game needs a substantial skill ceiling in order for players to be provided with an opportunity to "sweat," and the reality is that Dead by Daylight's skill ceiling is incredibly low. There is no skill to master as a survivor in DBD (unless you consider looking behind you while running forward a skill), therefore a good survivor is always working smarter, not harder.
DBD is a thinking game, while a game like Fortnite (where the term "sweaty" emerged) is as much a thinking game as it is physical. It can't even be debated that the two are comparable. Fortnite gamers spend hundreds of hours practicing their fundamentals in creative mode, while DBD gamers spend 2-10hrs (at most) learning to moonwalk in tutorial--a skill, by the way, which doesn't make you any better at DBD.
Simply put, someone is not "sweaty" for playing intelligently.
A survivor's sole objective is to escape, so this idea that someone is "sweaty" for trying to complete the objective is ludicrous.
This is the only PvP game community I have ever seen where players are frowned upon for trying to win. Dead by Daylight is a zero-sum game--you are not hip or cool because you rebel against the game's design. You are not better than someone because you escape after memeing all game while they died trying to play the objective.
You are wrong when you call someone sweaty, and you are wrong to believe you stand on any higher ground because you "don't take video games seriously."
People play video games for a variety of different reasons.
If you play video games to relax and destress, and you don't care about the outcome--congrats, I'm happy for you. But some people play video games to win. Some people might just like the thrill of success. Some people might not be finding success in their own life, so they search for it in video games to help their mental health. And some people just enjoy the process of working towards a game's objective or goal.
Whatever their reason may be, a person is perfectly validated for trying to win.
So Please, stop making fun of people for trying.
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Fortnite takes skill? Give me a break.
Youre not a real gamer unless u can beat megaman 2 with only one continue.
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I never thought of sweaty as a negative.
Just highly competitive.
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We'd first have to find a commonly agreed upon definition for 'sweaty'. I don't think your definition works here.
In the context of this game, I'd reckon it would go something like 'playing in a manner with only a win under consideration, even if this comes at the expense of the fun of the other side'.
For example, camping or heavy slugging would probably be the killer version of 'sweaty'. For survivors, playing in a SWF with stacked perks and a Haddonfield/Badham offering would be sweaty. Running to a House of Pain infinite every time you are chased would be 'sweaty'.
That said, semantic arguments are usually pointless, as it's all going to come down to personal definitions.
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That's where I'd say you're looking for a different word than "sweaty."
We don't have to argue semantics, but my concern is that I'm seeing people being belittled, demeaned, and made fun of for putting a reasonable amount of time and energy into something they enjoy.
You're describing apathy, not sweaty.
It is important we keep a distinction between the two, because waging war on vitriolic behavior under the guise of concerted effort is not going to solve the problem. I'm not a linguistics expert, but there isn't even anything remotely sweaty about a killer standing still in front of a hook--it is the least amount of effort a person could put forth.
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No, I'm describing 'sweaty'. This is not a word with a fixed dictionary definition or even any sort of consensus. I'd say that in the parlance of these forums, however, there is a difference between playing hard and playing 'sweaty'. Sweaty implies something negative, some sort of stacking of the deck or 'abusive' play (offerings, infinites, exploits etc.).
Apathy is something else entirely. That word has a very fixed definition already.
I don't think I've seen anyone demeaned for what you are describing, because simply being a good player isn't something that anyone credible will demean you for.
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You might want to look up the definition of apathy. A person who, as you've defined,
'[plays] in a manner with only a win under consideration, even if this comes at the expense of the fun of the other side'
is apathetic, by the words very definition.
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Different fonts and double spacing is all the proof I need.
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"with the term 'sweaty' only circulating in the gamer community for a little under 4 years now."
Wait are you trying to say that for only about 4 years gamers have been using the term sweaty? Bro unless I read that wrong, where the heck have you been lol that's been a term for as long as I've been an online gamer since the era of Xbox 360/PS3.
Like saying it's only been around for 4 years or so is just blatantly false. And if you mean it was popularized at that time...would also be extremely incorrect
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Eh. It's a stretch, as 'playing apathetically' would be more likely to describe someone who doesn't care about their performance moreso than someone who cares too much.
And this is why semantic arguments are pointless.
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Its certainly not a word I was hearing or using prior to Fortnite. I've been trash talking in online games since 2009, and the usual banter was just "n00b," "get good," "mad cuz bad," "outplayed," "tryhard," and all the basic curse words.
"Tryhard" was the closest anyone came to calling someone sweaty, but even that word was used sparingly.
I've been playing Halo CE, Combat Arms, CS:GO, & Overwatch on PC through all the years. I know for a fact people weren't using the term 'sweaty' in Overwatch, and that game is hella sweaty. I never played much COD, but I think we all know much worse words were being thrown around on that game.
I'm not calling you a liar, but 'sweaty' is definitely a newer generation term. Popularized might be the better word choice, because I'd believe some people were saying it before social media helped coin and maintream slang words like crazy.
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I heard 'tryhard' a lot, but that's because I mostly come from Starcraft and LoL.
My point is that 'sweaty' is, even by your logic, an emergent term. There isn't really enough consensus to declare that it has one set definition or another.
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No, you've just chosen (for the purposes of your argument) to shift where I'm applying the adjective.
If I only care about myself, I'm being apathetic towards others.
You can't adjucate where I'm placing the adjective and then tell me semantics are pointless. You're just failing to recognize, or deliberately ignoring, the grammatical structure of my argument.
You're looking for a word. The word is apathy.
You prefer the word sweaty, so you decide to slap the definition of apathy onto sweaty and call it a day. Thats not semantics. Thats just being ignorant.
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Well maybe it wasn't used in those games I'll concede that for the simple fact that I didn't play those specific games. But in call of duty people used to call each other sweat lord's, sweaty tryhards, tryhards...etc. you know much worse stuff but it was definitely used in cod.
Well you mentioned CSGO, maybe you been a PC gamer all this time and it was mostly a console thing?
Oh well lol haha. Not really the point of your post! Sorry for minor derailment
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@StarLost 's clarification of what sweat is in online gaming is the accurate one. You're nitpicking my dude. It also certainly isn't the only PVP community where this happens. You see it in League of Legends all the time where a casual, blind draft game is utterly stomped out by one team running a full meta champ roster while the other team is just trying to experiment with builds and can't even do that because they're getting trained so hard.
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I swear if they ever make a video game that's intent on forcing the player to lose... someone will find a way to bug the game so that they win just to say "I did it my own way"
I'm always blown away by people who criticize and demonize players for wanting to play the game normally and possibly even win... just dumbfounded and curious how all of this hate for normal gamers blew up seemingly out of nowhere
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I'm hardly nitpicking when my entire post calls attention to the misuse of 'sweaty' in a game that requires almost zero mechanical skill. You're still misusing the word, even after reading my post.
From the little experience I have with LoL, that game has a far higher skill ceiling than DBD. Of course you're going to see people use the term 'sweaty' there--it fits the context. But people are not sweaty in League of Legends for picking meta champs. There is nothing inherently sweaty about lining yourself up for the best chance of success. If you're not doing that, and your opponent is--they aren't sweaty, you're just negligent. How can you expect to play a competitive game (even in casual), and not expect people to try to win?
This is exactly why I made this post. I feel so alienated on these forums because the community has developed a bizarre backwards mentality. People think they can play a zero-sum video game, not try to win, and then still win. If you're not playing to win, you don't deserve to.
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You're missing several points reiterated many times across many threads.
- When you look at the 'Sweaty' loadouts and playstyles, if a killer uses all the sweat they have, it comes nowhere close to all the sweat the survivors have. Nowhere. Close. That's the imbalance that allows people to lob the complaint "Sweaty SWF." Just like SoloQ's turn that against Killers who tunnel and slug.
- It's not misused. Unlike many ideas thrown about, being sweaty quite simply means going above and beyond in an effort to win that often creates a parity with the effort the other side demonstrated. Again, this is why survivors memeing around use the term and why Killers who just wanted to experiment with some perks use it too.
- DBD has plenty of mechanical skill, I'm not providing examples here, it's self evident from watching comp play and montages
Sweaty isn't about trying to win, it's about how you try to win and what you're willing to turn the game into in order to do so. The easiest example is the 2 v 1 standoff at the end of the game where the Killer only slugs and the survivors only immerse for the next 20 minutes, in the effort to deny either side ANY sort of victory.
You feeling alienated is a personal problem, the community has a very consistent understanding of sweaty when compared to other PVP games. Ironically, it's one of the few things this community gets right.
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4x medkits, 4x same meta perks and map offering is not sweaty?
at that point that is just not about skill at any point, it's who will use better resources.
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One survivor uses the best perks, the best map offering, and plays pubs in a 4-man competitive team SWF.
Another survivor brings no perks, no map offering, and solo queues into a lobby with 3 randos.
Both survivors are playing to escape. Who has to work harder to actually make that happen?
You might be bitter that someone is stacking the deck in their favor, but that doesn't make them sweaty when it takes zero effort to do so.
One of the above-mentioned survivors is leaning back in their chair all relaxed, reading chat and talking about how easy this game is--probably not even giving 10% of their brain to the game. Meanwhile the other survivor is upright in their chair, focused, and actively learning from their mistakes because they can't afford to make too many of them.
You're delusional if you think the former survivor is the "sweaty" gamer in this scenario.
Find a better word. You're trying to put a square peg in a round hole.
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I sort of disagree with your overall point. Sweaty is synonymous with tryhard. But I have to agree, survivors do not really need to try and they will still dominate as long as they do gens. So... I guess you are correct.
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Tryhard is good word. I never really understood why "sweaty" is used so much in dbd. I prefer tryhard, it means exactly what it say.
That game is easier for him, but it's not like he is going to try less to win. They are both going to try escape, one just increased his chance for it massively.
He is actually going to try more probaly. If you lose without any resources, you usually don't care. If you use everything you can to win and you lose? Yeah, that's 100% on you. Noone ever used Haddonfield offering with 4x balance landing and then went easy on killer.
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Sweaty is ADD-ONS, KILLER PICK, META PERKS, and MAP then you might have SOME RNG in this game, also if you are solo q you get stealth do nothing bots. It's a bit different. It goes for both SURVIVORS and KILLERS. Games busted, but you already know that because you are the only SMART one here.
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What a surprise. A stranger leaves sarcastic belittling remarks on a post addressing casual toxicity in video game culture.
What else is new?
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Oh you think I'm wrong haha I called it in my first post heehee. ;)
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The huge issue here is that this is an asymmetrical game with no clearly defined "win" conditions, and a wide spectrum of ways a game can play out.
What "win" (and thus "trying to win") means here is really subjective. When I started playing DBD, I heard a few people say that in this game you set your own win conditions, and I think that's true, because the game doesn't do that for you. Particularly in the case of survivors. And because each member of a team might be playing with a different get of goals in mind (for many escaping is one of a few objectives rather than the primary one), there is inevitably going to be some discordance about how the game should go, and what constitutes a satisfying experience, and opinions on how everyone should play.
I think the experience is king in DBD, not the "win". But there is never going to be full agreement on what makes the best experience, and there is never going to be harmony amongst all the players.
But that said, one constant is that if you are clearly playing with only experience/goals in mind, that will be apparent, and you will get flamed for it. And people will try to come to some sort of consensus of parameters to try to compel others to play in a manner consistent with their own values (see the much maligned "entitled survivor rulebook").
The metaphorical sands are always shifting in the realm of DBD; what is reasonable to one is going to be toxic or sweaty to others (I definitely have my own definition). This will not change, and if you can't make peace with that - if you need that definition and certainty - this might not be the game for you.
Trying to codify any of this or play semantic police is laughably futile.
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Sweaty in video games means tryhard
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The context of a word can change over time, it definitely means "try hard" these days for the most part.
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Incorrect. You're not a real gamer unless megaman 2 without taking a single HIT :3 (Someone did it and it was an awesome run to watch!~)
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What was your goal with this post.
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Well spoke, Thusly!
Tho what you are suggesting is chaos.
Ironically, language cannot speak for itself. So when people take a word and completely misuse it, someone should absolutely stand up and say "hey, that is not what that word means," or "you're not saying what you may think you're trying to say."
Word choice is so important.
We teach children the definitions of languages--both their dennotative and connotative meanings. We teach them how to be creative with that language, and we right them when they use language incorrectly. But now suddenly, because someone has aged 18+ years they are allowed to use language incorrectly? Beause that's what I'm seeing happen here.
This community has taken a word that means hard working & overexertion and are applying it to demonize people for being savvy & efficient.
Futile or not, this community would be better off if people learned how to properly articulate.
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