I really hope the Legion buffs go through...

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@Gardenia said:

@ScottJund said:

@Severus_Swiggleton said:

@ScottJund said:
Would you like to get a group together and KYF with me being Frank's Mixtape Legion? I'd love to watch you counter me!

Yup, because one setup match should determine the fate of a patch. Reasonable.

What does that have to do with the patch? I'm just trying to find out a way to counter Legion and he seems to know how.

Not just me, literally all high ranking Survivors.
But you keep acting like I'm the only one who knows these things.

If you don't know by now, then maybe you should stop whining about him and try to understand him.

I'm not getting into a match with you because it's one match, and especially if it's one on one there's no chance.

BECAUSE that doesn't simulate a real match at high rank. When you have multiple high rank survivors in red rank that know what they're doing, Legion gets destroyed. They've already learned to split in groups of two's and the other stuff I've listed.

Also, just because he downs you doesn't mean it's the end of the match, you have to get hooked 2 maybe 3 times. That's not to include items you bring in such as insta heals.

Take a chill pill dude.

You are really, really missing the point. When you, individually, get chased by Legion, there is nothing you, individually, can do. Its a very bad feeling and does not belong in a multiplayer game. Saying "just split up and do gens" isn't a counter to Legion, its a counter to everything in the game.

@ScottJund said:
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@Gardenia said:

@ScottJund said:

@Severus_Swiggleton said:

@ScottJund said:
Would you like to get a group together and KYF with me being Frank's Mixtape Legion? I'd love to watch you counter me!

Yup, because one setup match should determine the fate of a patch. Reasonable.

What does that have to do with the patch? I'm just trying to find out a way to counter Legion and he seems to know how.

Not just me, literally all high ranking Survivors.
But you keep acting like I'm the only one who knows these things.

If you don't know by now, then maybe you should stop whining about him and try to understand him.

I'm not getting into a match with you because it's one match, and especially if it's one on one there's no chance.

BECAUSE that doesn't simulate a real match at high rank. When you have multiple high rank survivors in red rank that know what they're doing, Legion gets destroyed. They've already learned to split in groups of two's and the other stuff I've listed.

Also, just because he downs you doesn't mean it's the end of the match, you have to get hooked 2 maybe 3 times. That's not to include items you bring in such as insta heals.

Take a chill pill dude.

You are really, really missing the point. When you, individually, get chased by Legion, there is nothing you, individually, can do. Its a very bad feeling and does not belong in a multiplayer game. Saying "just split up and do gens" isn't a counter to Legion, its a counter to everything in the game.

So I'm genuinely curious, humor me for a second if you will. Should these changes to Legion go through, what do you plan to do? Sure, you could disconnect against every Legion, but that's a bannable offense if done too frequently (supposedly). I doubt you'll stop playing the game altogether, since there are no viable alternatives in the genre with as much content/variety as Dead by Daylight. Basically, until they have competition, they can do whatever they want and people will still play the game/buy their content. It's a sad reality.

At the end of the day, it's been proven that BVHR takes constructive criticism from its highest level killers/survivors with a grain of salt, and they balance the game around whatever their 'vision' for it is, regardless of the input received from highly skilled players.

You Know I replied but it's giving me something saying wait until the comments been approved. So you'll see the response soon I'm sure. But in Short, SB, Lithe, Stealth, timing when his power can't be used again, looking at his stance change for an indication of frenzy.

And also how the counters are proactive, not reactive. You'll see the full thing when its approved later.

Legion needs a complete rework, because of right now they hurt the game the most. This buff will make the Legion a complete disaster.

Yes, they do need a complete rework. I don't want a weak killer ever, but I also don't want a killer that breaks the mechanics of the game. The devs never should've released Legion in their current state and should of just started over. It would've been better for the game as a whole.

@Severus_Swiggleton said:
Yup, anyone that can down survivors need a rework. Nurse, Legion, Hillbilly. Why not? It's not like survivor isn't easy enough as it is. Entitled brats the lot of ya.

Yep, we are definitely entitled. We are entitled to fun gameplay that has actual counter play and takes some skill. I want killers to be buffed. There were many improvements for killers in 2018, but with the release of the Legion, killers got more nerfs and survivors had to deal with a poorly designed killer. The Legion's release was a loss for everyone involved.

You all keep throwing around skill to please some inflated ego because it was unpleasant for you. Idc, I love legion and I have fun as them.

@Mc_Harty said:

@Gardenia said:
You all keep throwing around skill to please some inflated ego because it was unpleasant for you. Idc, I love legion and I have fun as them.

Congratz, you're the exception, not the rule.

And there are other people who like to play the legion as well. I'm not the only one.
Legion is controversial similar to nurse back when she was released.

But hey shrug

@Gardenia said:
Sa> @Bbbrian2013 said:

@DwightsLifeMatters said:
Bbbrian2013 said:

@SenzuDuck said:

@Bbbrian2013 said:

@SadonicShadow said:

@Bbbrian2013 said:

@ScottJund said:

No, almost nobody likes the proposed changes.

How would you make him strong then? He shouldn't need mix tape to be viable. Every killer should be useable man...

I dont think many people would argue against that. He should for sure be made viable and useable without addons as all killers should be. The problem with Legion is his power at its very core is the worst of both worlds. He is extremely unfair and has almost zero counterplay as survivor yet as killer he is trash tier and worse than freddy at securing kills. I agree when people say he needs to be reworked. He needs to be both fair and strong and right now he is neither. I dont have a solution but we cant simply buff and nerf our way out of this. He needs a fundamental rework. Legion is just poorly designed mechanically.

So you're saying we either get this buff or we wait a year or more for a rework...

This is Freddy all over again this buff HAS to go through then rework in a year. Don't let him be useless for a year.

No, not when you can insta down with ultra fast pallet and window jumps there's no counter.

There doesn't need to be a counter. What is Nurses counter?

We could finally have a second S tier killer. Survivors have always been strong why can't killers?

You mindgame nurse, double backs and running straight line around a corner to confuse her, after the stun (she looks at the ground) you can use it lose her. Also, playing nurse requires a lot of skill and practise, while Legion not.

Yeah i don't see the issue with an S tier killer that is easy to use. This isn't an esports game. A killer that you can pick up and just stab things with not have to think and do well sounds good to me.

Killer is stressful we need an easy fun one not told to go play civ and deal with weak killers.

Same, why do they feel they have to dictate what's skillful or not when they important thing is to have fun. Not every killer should need thousands of hours to be very good. That's part of legions charm to me, he breaks down so many "rules" and expectations survivors have for a killer.

He is honestly needed to shake things up in this game right now tbh.

Yes its fun for you as the killer maybe. Mindless fun though is the problem. Mindless fun is fine against AI. When there is other people playing on the other side of the mindless fun that is where the issue comes in.

@mgs2020 said:

@Gardenia said:
Sa> @Bbbrian2013 said:

@DwightsLifeMatters said:
Bbbrian2013 said:

@SenzuDuck said:

@Bbbrian2013 said:

@SadonicShadow said:

@Bbbrian2013 said:

@ScottJund said:

No, almost nobody likes the proposed changes.

How would you make him strong then? He shouldn't need mix tape to be viable. Every killer should be useable man...

I dont think many people would argue against that. He should for sure be made viable and useable without addons as all killers should be. The problem with Legion is his power at its very core is the worst of both worlds. He is extremely unfair and has almost zero counterplay as survivor yet as killer he is trash tier and worse than freddy at securing kills. I agree when people say he needs to be reworked. He needs to be both fair and strong and right now he is neither. I dont have a solution but we cant simply buff and nerf our way out of this. He needs a fundamental rework. Legion is just poorly designed mechanically.

So you're saying we either get this buff or we wait a year or more for a rework...

This is Freddy all over again this buff HAS to go through then rework in a year. Don't let him be useless for a year.

No, not when you can insta down with ultra fast pallet and window jumps there's no counter.

There doesn't need to be a counter. What is Nurses counter?

We could finally have a second S tier killer. Survivors have always been strong why can't killers?

You mindgame nurse, double backs and running straight line around a corner to confuse her, after the stun (she looks at the ground) you can use it lose her. Also, playing nurse requires a lot of skill and practise, while Legion not.

Yeah i don't see the issue with an S tier killer that is easy to use. This isn't an esports game. A killer that you can pick up and just stab things with not have to think and do well sounds good to me.

Killer is stressful we need an easy fun one not told to go play civ and deal with weak killers.

Same, why do they feel they have to dictate what's skillful or not when they important thing is to have fun. Not every killer should need thousands of hours to be very good. That's part of legions charm to me, he breaks down so many "rules" and expectations survivors have for a killer.

He is honestly needed to shake things up in this game right now tbh.

Yes its fun for you as the killer maybe. Mindless fun though is the problem. Mindless fun is fine against AI. When there is other people playing on the other side of the mindless fun that is where the issue comes in.

But aren't you the survivor, shouldn't you feel stressed?

If it's not Nurse, Billy, Hag, spirit or huntress. You all are the predators(you as in Survivor), not the "killer"

@Gardenia said:

@mgs2020 said:

@Gardenia said:
Sa> @Bbbrian2013 said:

@DwightsLifeMatters said:
Bbbrian2013 said:

@SenzuDuck said:

@Bbbrian2013 said:

@SadonicShadow said:

@Bbbrian2013 said:

@ScottJund said:

No, almost nobody likes the proposed changes.

How would you make him strong then? He shouldn't need mix tape to be viable. Every killer should be useable man...

I dont think many people would argue against that. He should for sure be made viable and useable without addons as all killers should be. The problem with Legion is his power at its very core is the worst of both worlds. He is extremely unfair and has almost zero counterplay as survivor yet as killer he is trash tier and worse than freddy at securing kills. I agree when people say he needs to be reworked. He needs to be both fair and strong and right now he is neither. I dont have a solution but we cant simply buff and nerf our way out of this. He needs a fundamental rework. Legion is just poorly designed mechanically.

So you're saying we either get this buff or we wait a year or more for a rework...

This is Freddy all over again this buff HAS to go through then rework in a year. Don't let him be useless for a year.

No, not when you can insta down with ultra fast pallet and window jumps there's no counter.

There doesn't need to be a counter. What is Nurses counter?

We could finally have a second S tier killer. Survivors have always been strong why can't killers?

You mindgame nurse, double backs and running straight line around a corner to confuse her, after the stun (she looks at the ground) you can use it lose her. Also, playing nurse requires a lot of skill and practise, while Legion not.

Yeah i don't see the issue with an S tier killer that is easy to use. This isn't an esports game. A killer that you can pick up and just stab things with not have to think and do well sounds good to me.

Killer is stressful we need an easy fun one not told to go play civ and deal with weak killers.

Same, why do they feel they have to dictate what's skillful or not when they important thing is to have fun. Not every killer should need thousands of hours to be very good. That's part of legions charm to me, he breaks down so many "rules" and expectations survivors have for a killer.

He is honestly needed to shake things up in this game right now tbh.

Yes its fun for you as the killer maybe. Mindless fun though is the problem. Mindless fun is fine against AI. When there is other people playing on the other side of the mindless fun that is where the issue comes in.

But aren't you the survivor, shouldn't you feel stressed?

If it's not Nurse, Billy, Hag, spirit or huntress. You all are the predators(you as in Survivor), not the "killer"

Lol if this game was actually ment to stress a survivor out, there goes your player base, stress is not fun, fear can be but stress no.

All those killers you mentioned have counter play, nurse with the least but its still there. Legion basically results in a pallet standoff, that's your counter play when found. We all know standoffs aren't fun =P

@Bbbrian2013 said:

@mgs2020 said:

@Bbbrian2013 said:

@DwightsLifeMatters said:
Bbbrian2013 said:

@DwightsLifeMatters said:

Bbbrian2013 said:

@DwightsLifeMatters said:

Bbbrian2013 said:

@SenzuDuck said: @Bbbrian2013 said: @SadonicShadow said: @Bbbrian2013 said: @ScottJund said: No, almost nobody likes the proposed changes. How would you make him strong then? He shouldn't need mix tape to be viable. Every killer should be useable man... I dont think many people would argue against that. He should for sure be made viable and useable without addons as all killers should be. The problem with Legion is his power at its very core is the worst of both worlds. He is extremely unfair and has almost zero counterplay as survivor yet as killer he is trash tier and worse than freddy at securing kills. I agree when people say he needs to be reworked. He needs to be both fair and strong and right now he is neither. I dont have a solution but we cant simply buff and nerf our way out of this. He needs a fundamental rework. Legion is just poorly designed mechanically. So you're saying we either get this buff or we wait a year or more for a rework... This is Freddy all over again this buff HAS to go through then rework in a year. Don't let him be useless for a year. No, not when you can insta down with ultra fast pallet and window jumps there's no counter. There doesn't need to be a counter. What is Nurses counter? We could finally have a second S tier killer. Survivors have always been strong why can't killers?

You mindgame nurse, double backs and running straight line around a corner to confuse her, after the stun (she looks at the ground) you can use it lose her. Also, playing nurse requires a lot of skill and practise, while Legion not.



Yeah i don't see the issue with an S tier killer that is easy to use. This isn't an esports game. A killer that you can pick up and just stab things with not have to think and do well sounds good to me.

Killer is stressful we need an easy fun one not told to go play civ

Why do you play a PvP game in the first place then? Just play against bots lol

I would if DbD had single player.

So, just because it hasn't we all should bend around you so you can get ur "bot experience" but against real persons? Come on lad. I wouldn't mind the buff if Legion had counterplay. But the combination of no counterplay + recent buff + no skill needed is so stupid, that everyone who defends this is basically admitting that he has 0 game knowledge about DbD.

My guy Legion has the potential to be what every killer main has been wanting for years. An easy solution to looping and toxic survivors. We press a button and ignore the bs parts of the game that have caused even top killers like Marth to quit.

Killers could have fun again with this Legion. Killers are supposed to be op and scary power role vs 4 weak ones.

You just said it. We press a button and all survivor escape tactics go out the door... That's throwing a quarter of the games design if not more out the window lol...

Is it that big of a loss if that quarter has annoyed killers for years?...Definitely not for us killers it's fun for us we finally have what we wanted.

A game where you go around killing other players who have 0 outplay potential is the game you want?

Just sit and imagine DBD had no windows or pallets, everything else the same, maps and everything, only thing is breaking line of sight. The second the killers on you, you have 10 seconds until you are down. The skill level of the game just about disappears. How many people would want to play survivor against that?That would make no sense.

@mgs2020 said:

@thesuicidefox said:
Legion with Frank's Mixtape can now 2 hit down in Frenzy an injured survivor. That's a bit ridiculous. To me it seems like all of Legion's issues can be solved by just changing this add-on. That's really what makes him broken in every case, is that he has to hit you 1 less time to down you. That just shouldn't ever be a thing.

The issue this buff will cause is tunneling off hook not giving the survivor a chance to heal because it makes an easy down. Legions build will now be sloppy, nurses, monitor n abuse, and another 4th perk of choosing. They already made a tunnel machine, this will just increase the tunneling I'm willing to bet.

This is such a poor argument. If Legion wanted to tunnel, it would still be more effective to just use a normal attack to finish off the injured player instead of Frenzy stab, Frenzy stab, follow around until ability can be activated again and Frenzy stab again. The only time that would be the optimal play is if the Legion player knew for a fact that the survivor doing the unhooking was running borrowed time. The only thing this change really does is encourage survivors to actually heal. The Frank's Mixtape issue sounds like a bug to me.

@DwightsLifeMatters said:
Bbbrian2013 said:

@DwightsLifeMatters said:

Bbbrian2013 said:

@DwightsLifeMatters said:

Bbbrian2013 said:

@DwightsLifeMatters said: Bbbrian2013 said:

@SenzuDuck said:    @Bbbrian2013 said:    @SadonicShadow said:    @Bbbrian2013 said:    @ScottJund said:    No, almost nobody likes the proposed changes.        How would you make him strong then? He shouldn't need mix tape to be viable. Every killer should be useable man...        I dont think many people would argue against that. He should for sure be made viable and useable without addons as all killers should be. The problem with Legion is his power at its very core is the worst of both worlds. He is extremely unfair and has almost zero counterplay as survivor yet as killer he is trash tier and worse than freddy at securing kills. I agree when people say he needs to be reworked. He needs to be both fair and strong and right now he is neither. I dont have a solution but we cant simply buff and nerf our way out of this. He needs a fundamental rework. Legion is just poorly designed mechanically.        So you're saying we either get this buff or we wait a year or more for a rework...    This is Freddy all over again this buff HAS to go through then rework in a year. Don't let him be useless for a year.        No, not when you can insta down with ultra fast pallet and window jumps there's no counter.        There doesn't need to be a counter. What is Nurses counter?    We could finally have a second S tier killer. Survivors have always been strong why can't killers?

You mindgame nurse, double backs and running straight line around a corner to confuse her, after the stun (she looks at the ground) you can use it lose her. Also, playing nurse requires a lot of skill and practise, while Legion not. Yeah i don't see the issue with an S tier killer that is easy to use. This isn't an esports game. A killer that you can pick up and just stab things with not have to think and do well sounds good to me. Killer is stressful we need an easy fun one not told to go play civ

Why do you play a PvP game in the first place then? Just play against bots lol



I would if DbD had single player.

So, just because it hasn't we all should bend around you so you can get ur "bot experience" but against real persons? Come on lad. I wouldn't mind the buff if Legion had counterplay. But the combination of no counterplay + recent buff + no skill needed is so stupid, that everyone who defends this is basically admitting that he has 0 game knowledge about DbD.

My guy Legion has the potential to be what every killer main has been wanting for years. An easy solution to looping and toxic survivors. We press a button and ignore the bs parts of the game that have caused even top killers like Marth to quit.

Killers could have fun again with this Legion. Killers are supposed to be op and scary power role vs 4 weak ones.

I play killer a lot and Legion is 100% not what I want. Yeah, killers like trapper are weak, but at least you work for your kills and feels awesome to 4k. But with Legion I feel no satisfaction and I kinda regret it that I spend so much points into him (he's p3 since 2 weeks).
Just watch damnnohtml, he breaks down why Legion is unhealthy for DbD.
But glad that you admit that you want your 4ks without working for it.

And yet his opinion is not the end all be all. There are many people who disagree.

And if it was so clear that he was bad for this game, legion wouldn't exist.

So clearly the devs are hinting at something to change with the introduction of this character, idk maybe a change in the way survivors play the game to escape, discouraging looping, bodyblocking and etc.

The devs have purpose for their actions it's not always Willy nilly.

In my humble opinion, Legion is really bad for the game.

The devs somehow managed to create the most brain-dead and boring killer possible.

I really think the design team should go back to the drawing board on Legion. Redesign his power to be more skill-oriented for both sides.

se05239 said:

See Injured Survivor.
Have Frank's Mixtape Add-on.
Hit Survivor twice in Feral Frenzy.
Survivor Down.
GG NO RE

also everyone in this stupid thread thinks u can/have mixtape all the time. its an purple addon, get real for once survivor mains.