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Why do people hate toxic survivors bming at the exit gates so much?
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Does BMing add anything positive to the game? No. Does BMing add something negative to the game? Yes. So, discouraging it or getting rid of it is the better choice.
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It might be the starting at solo queue. After I became decent at survivor I noticed the levels of toxicity of the killers I faced dropped off more rapidly than the level of toxicity I got from the survivors I faced.
There actually was a study done on it that concluded that, as opposed to other games, the highest level of toxicity was found in the highest ranks of DbD, interestingly enough. I'm sure I'm not there so I can't comment but I thought that was interesting.
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Agreed. It’s crazy to me that people get so upset at a character crouching up and down that they want it removed... lmao
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Would you happen to have that study on hand?
I really enjoy reading stuff like that.
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Lol yeah we aren’t going to agree.
I have to say you’re blowing it out of proportion. Nobody is encouraging nastiness nor are they discouraging empathy/consideration. It’s just a crouch animation and some people use it to teabag, not to mention a chunk of them aren’t even trying to be toxic.
No psyches are being damaged here, but I do sympathise with anybody who doesn’t deal with it too well, and I’d suggest they try to change their perspective else they’ll experience similar things in the majority of multiplayer games.
I’m all for banning people for actual abuse and such, but changing the way crouch works just because a minority of people take it too personally? It may sound harsh but that’s sort of ridiculous.
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You don’t need to be a psychologist to know that DBD is a video game and not real life.
There’s no “tough love.” If somebody gets an uncomfortable feeling from being teabagged in a video game, they should be encouraged to see it for the trivial irrelevance that it is. After all, their reaction is the only thing that can give it power in the first place. That’s not “tough love” but common sense.
I sympathise with anyone getting stressed out etc, but it’s on them to change how they react to it.
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Sure, here it is. I hope you find it interesting.
http://gamestudies.org/2004/articles/deslauriers_iseutlafrancestmartin_bonenfant
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I will never not find it strange how quick people are to go "it's just a game" or "it's just an animation". That logic can be taken and stretched up until the point of assault perfectly fine.
You're just drawing an arbitrary line and going "I think everything on the other side of this line shouldn't bother people and if it does then I'm going to treat it as their failing". Even if the people being jerks on either side of the line have exactly the same motivations and opinions. Now, if you ask me what's entitled, it's trying to tell people they're allowed to be affected by.
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Post edited by DangerScouse on0
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You aren't a psychologist, so again, I think you shouldn't talk about things you clearly don't have much knowledge in. Your belief people SHOULD deal with something and shouldn't have an issue with it is solely your feeling based on nothing at all but your own belief. I have seen nothing refering actual psychology here. And yes, psychology applies to everything including games.
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so going there to get maybe 2 hits or no hits at lll and 600 points that doesnt even buy me a brown offering? lol no worth. meanwhile survivors do get points cause they get escape points, escpae from the killer potentially protections hits. no worth for the killer to go there.
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This is probably going to get clipped hilariously out of context, but...yeah, video games *are* real life. Everything involving human beings is 'real life'. You aren't being nasty to an AI controlled character, there is a person behind that avatar.
Teabagging or cussing someone out in a videogame is no different than being anonymously spiteful to a stranger IRL.
And again - the onus to change is always on the person doing something wrong, not the people annoyed by it.
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Survivors tbagging is the in-game equivalent of "f*ck you". They usually do it after they've had a super easy game and the killer wasn't toxic at all. Winning isn't enough for them; they have to rub it in to feel superior.
It's more infuriating that people are claiming that it's used for tactical advantage or it's all in good fun, as opposed to the reality which is survivors using it to annoy.
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its more about being snobbing and staying in the game ... ive had some games ... where they played extremely well stealthy i couldnt find them for the love of my life ... open two gate and then two are in one ... wait around for me to watch them leave .... and then the last one into the gate and one looks around for hatch ... and then prolonging the game more then it need to be .... +25 min of wasting my time.
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JUST LEAVE. YOU'RE IN THE GATE, ALL 4 OF YOU HEALTHY, GTFO.
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Something I haven't seen brought up yet is the genre and age rating as a defense for BM and I think I'll play devils advocate here.
DBD is a horror game that is rated 17+ meaning that only adults or people close to adults should be playing it. While kids will still play it, I think that's more on the parents to ensure their kid(s) are mature enough for the content and to understand what comes with it and if they should speak to them about what is happening.
Secondly, the horror genre is supposed to invoke negative feelings. It wants to scare, repulse, shock, anger, etc their audience. To make them feel tense, to bring up a sense of anxiety and panic. Considering how much BM effects some people I would consider it to fit into the horror aspect of DBD. Just as some people can handle watching a body get mutilated and others would faint at the mere thought, I think BM fits into the same sort of category. Some people can handle it with no reaction while others can't and it's up to each person to understand their limits and take proper action. To either understand it's not inherently real or to separate ones self from it when they've been pushed too far.
While a different argument could and maybe should be made for kids games or other genre's, DBD is again, a 17+ horror game. I think standard BM is par the course.
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So many BMers say it's not personal, how is it NOT personal? You're waiting around for the Killer to show up so you can be rude to them, how it that not personal?
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That is the most bizarre logic ever. It's a horror game, so people being insufferable jerks is acceptable?
I can't think of many points in horror classics that go "Hahah, you're a loser, let's rub it in your face" to try and build tension (or horror games for that matter--they tend to take the opportunity to go full gory death). Being frustrated, angry at someone, and/or upset might all be negative emotions, but they're not the ones that horror's really building towards.
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Oh I can agree to a minor point. As I said, I'm playing devil's advocate.
As a counter point, why would BM be unacceptable in a game that's about torturing people without any hope of escape for all eternity? If you want to argue it's just video game logic and that's the point then I'd say the same of the BM as that's not something people would ever normally do. I don't think anyone IRL would ever bother teabagging someone since not only does it look really dumb/funny but it's quite difficult to do. If you want to counter argue taunting in general then that as well is extremely frowned upon to do IRL.
That said, it's a horror genre and people being insufferable jerks is part of that territory. While I can't think of many gaming examples that go that route, having unlikable characters or villains that are just straight up annoying or upsetting is fairly common in the movie scene. There are plenty of examples where the villain(s) like to joke around at the main characters expense. Thinking more directly, I'd be curious to know how many horror movies end with the main character being victorious and taunting the killer before they die.
Even in games, while it's not normally played for the annoyance factor it is common to have the villain(s) rub it in your face that they killed someone or did something to you and there's nothing you can do about it. They want to make you angry and upset which is exactly what BM is meant to do. It's meant to incite a reaction out of you. The difference is, people tend to take in-game BM personally instead of realizing it's just a game and is unrealistic as they would for any other situation, like say getting tortured.
On another note, having a horror game where the entire point was to demoralize you and try to make you mad/upset would be quite interesting.
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I think the horror genre is a great argument for getting rid of BM. Until you can show me a scene where, when confronted with an invulnerable , knife wielding maniac, the cops started tbagging Micheal Myers in Halloween, BM breaks the fourth wall and ruins the horror atmosphere.
It just turns out, as opposed to a hail of bullets, what was really needed to stop Micheal was someone one-quarter Michael's size armed with a piece of wood.
BMing brings nothing to the game and detracts from it. It should go.
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It would be unacceptable in a game, because it's a game. Like, that would seemingly be the first part of it being a multiplayer experience: we're here to play with other people and have fun. How the game does that based on its genre is one thing, but at no point does that mean that a social experience should become filled with antisocial behaviour--that is, after all, inherently destructive to its premise and community.
In the end, it doesn't matter how limited the range of behaviours are, if they're sufficiently broad that certain things can be construed to have no other purpose but to taunt (and teabagging has been around since at least Quake, so we have more than twenty years now for that to get a clear meaning) then they should be treated as such. If you're going to have rules that verbal harassment etc. is unacceptable, then so are clear nonverbal cues.
Since there are, in fact, rules governing the chat, we know that this isn't acceptable. This extends to virtual actions, rather than running on a double standard that only certain methods of communication are able to be offensive--and, of course, we can go one further and say that by most logic, chat should be regulated less, because at least you can opt to close it and not take part--no such luck with the exit gate squads; they get what they want one way or the other.
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Before I answer everything you said I want to point out that while chat harassment is banned, smack talk itself is not. Do you consider exit gate teabagging harassment or just a simple taunt that'd be more closely related to smack talk?
The devs consider it more along the lines of smack talk and as such it is allowed. If you're trying to argue it is more closely related to chat harassment and should be treated as such then we have nothing else to talk about as I simply don't agree with that. We'd be yelling at each other forever over the semantics of what constitutes smack talk and what is harassment and if smack talk is harassment.
It might ruin the horror atmosphere for some but so does running around in inflatable snowman or kicking pumpkins. The game has been shown multiple times over the years that it doesn't take itself that seriously with the horror aspect, just that it is in fact a part of it. Having something like BM which can take you out of the horror element in a game where the horror element isn't taken that seriously in the first place is not a big enough deal where it should be removed for that reason alone. If the game took its horror elements more seriously or wanted to take itself more seriously, I would actually agree with you.
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I think it's definitely a problem that they've shown some willingness to moderate chat but think infinite verbal BM is fine, with neither moderation nor any sort of feedback within the game to limit this behaviour. Because it creates a terrible atmosphere when people keep encountering it.
Exit gate is bad manners, but you can get into outright harassment with the same action when the matchmaking really screws up. Bully squads are made of it: just don't do the thing that lets the game end, continue to run the other player in loops and teabag until they give up.
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This may be the most corkscrew logic defending being a toxic little gremlin I've seen in ages.
Where do I even start here?
- You'd expect adults to act with a bit more sportsmanship and empathy.
- If I saw my son being a jerk to people in any videogame, he would likely be spending the rest of the week doing yardwork rather than playing.
- By this logic Halo is a horror game. Horror is about tension and fear. Not disgust, not anger, not frustration. Plus, this is a game. A game is supposed to be fun for everyone involved.
I honestly hope this is thinly disguised bait, because if it isn't...you are the problem here.
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It depends on person to person I guess but for me at least it's a mixture of three things 1. It's a waste of time if you don't encourage it since they will stay to the last second at times 2. It can add salt to the wounds (Figuratively) to the ending of a bad match 3. Continues to show how childish and disrespectful people can be.
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It depends on the situation if the BMing annoys me or not. Like I got Dead Hard hit validated earlier, and the guy teabagged, like he was good or something. But a flawed design is only what helped him escape. Now I've had people BM at the exit gates, and I pounce on them with Victor, and they die to endgame collapse. So it goes either way with me tbh.
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I think For that it's wouldn't be so bad if people just knew when to quit or at the very least do it in a way that doesn't go to far to where it normally does I.E Death threats, racist #########, harassment and so on. People can taunt and such and Still give a level of respect but unfortunately it seems to be the former than the latter in most cases.
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Check the definition of Devils Advocate. I'm simply surprised it's a point that hasn't been brought up, whether I truly agree with it or not is something entirely different.
Counter points
- IRL sure but this is a video game and doesn't hold nearly as much weight with how one acts in it, within reason of course. On that subject true harassment is something that should be taken very seriously and thankfully is. Also, shouldn't emotionally stable adults not be bothered in the first place or at least understand it's only a game and be able to move on? They should be able to understand that teabagging is incredibly unrealistic, the same as taunting others in public. As such BMing in the game should be taken about as personally as the entire getting murdered and torture aspect of it. As in, it shouldn't.
- Good. Not sure the point. If a kid is teabagging or being a jerk in a game then it's more on the parent then the game to decide if that's worth disciplining. Doesn't hold nearly the same weight for an adult.
- Horror comes in many shapes and sizes so it really depends on what one would classify as horror. While most direct horror plays on fear, no argument there, I think horror can still be classified by the helplessness and anxiety that people can feel, the more psychological aspect of it if you will. Not being able to save someone right in front of you, the feeling of helplessness as you are unable to do anything but watch and all the anxiety that comes with it. Such things are truly horrifying to some people.
Now I admit with that last point that arguing whether BM fits into that weird hole is a bit of a stretch but I think the feelings that comes from BM are quite similar at the very least.
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Eh, I'm not going to argue with someone playing Devil's Advocate - that's just a waste of time. This is a videogame forum to discuss feedback in good faith, not a formal debate.
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Ppl complain about the weirdest sh*t in DBD. I do whatever i want on both sides!
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That last one also bothers me--because occasionally (I seem to wind up against console a lot), I do have fun just from the endgame chat (and honestly I wish we could get pregame chat so I could say hi and be friendly to maybe defuse some jerk behaviour). But the whole pointless kudos system... not only do we not have a way to discourage bad behaviour, we can't encourage the nice stuff.
Stuff like this (guy got the hatch whilst holding the box) is just great.
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Which is very fair and understandable, I just felt the points should be presented as it is an argument I've seen before on this subject. If I'm being perfectly honest with my actual opinion on the matter above, I think the points hold some weight of truth to them but are very weak as a counter argument to keeping BM in the game.
As for my actual thoughts on BM, I don't get bothered and generally don't even care about this issue in the first place so I normally ignore these type of threads. I wouldn't be effected in the least if all BM from both sides was taken out, left in or made worse. I tend to play very chill and let everyone go or just meme around and even when I do play serious and get BM'd I'm not phased in the least. I just move on without a care in the world. Even if I do somehow get mad it's only ever for a couple minutes and then I lose interest in whatever it was that annoyed me.
I just happened to see this thread again, wasn't doing anything and thought I'd chime in once more from earlier as I noticed no one had yet brought up the age rating and genre which I've seen debated with before on this subject.
I hope you have a good one though and I meant no ill intentions.
Which I very much agree with. I think some minor BM and smack talk is par the course but death threats, racism, etc is never okay and should be punished accordingly.
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Yeah this is why I struggle to turn postgame off - even though 60% of the time nobody says anything and 30% of the time it's people being nasty or sulking.
Every now and then you just have a hilarious moment. Like earlier, I didn't realize that 'The Doctor Is In!' archive challenge doesn't require me to play Doc or use only those three perks.
Ended up getting it against a very good SWF group, played extremely hard but never resorted to camping or tunneling off hook. Absolute slugfest of a match on The Game. Was surprised when I also got the Adept for Doctor, not even realizing that this was essentially what I was doing.
Postgame:
P1: GGWP
Me: Sorry for the sweat
P2: Grats on the adept, you definitely earned it!
P1: Ya really good doctor
P3: Stream is cheering for you right now!
Such an...oddly uplifting and wholesome moment.
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This is the forums... What do you expect? haha
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Mm. I have a feeling that this is a hot button topic right now due to the influx of new players from Epic.
BHVR and the out-of-game community have cultivated an extremely 'progressive' image, so I think a lot of people were surprised to find that the community in this game is pretty damn toxic (don't tunnel people with Pride flags, but go nuts with strobing flashlight macros to give photosensitive players actual issues).
I've always been of the opinion that there is a difference between a 'taunt' (which can serve a tactical purpose) and a 'gloat' (which is just being a knob). Trashtalk implies a rivalry, which in turn implies that people know each other. Absent this, it's just being nasty.
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Yeah and unfortunately it always lead to that way of thinking is the more abhorrent behaviour especially due to the way the game is now where most fun is overshadowed by the amount of bs that this game brings to people and honestly I can see why a lot quit and basically swear to never play this again.
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I personally find tbagging hilarious
even better when they send a ######### talking message
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BM is why I also am not going to let up or play "nice." I'm going to play to my fullest rather than play "relaxed" let crappy people beat me, and then think they're good because I was going easy. I'd rather just make them work for it. BMers are the prime reason I'm not going to willingly let the survivors escape because 9 times out of 10 at least one of them will BM at the exit.
Also I think SOME tbag/click is okay during a match, depending on context. It can be a legitimate tool people try to use to distract the killer from a different target. But when it's at the exit gates it's solely just to be a jerk to others.
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Yes I can see how you’d feel like the question is stupid. And no, you would not want survivors bming at exit games. Thats obvious. But this question, in my opinion, is not stupid and something we should think about,
While I could say my overview has changed a tiny bit over the course of the discussion my original point still stands, as in, we shouldn’t get upset at something as trivial as survivors bming at exits.
I understand why people get mad at it (if people never got mad at it it wouldn’t happen, which is what I want to happen). So this discussion is not stupid because its a relevant topic that we should discuss.
Thanks for being apart of it!
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On Xbox, any message with insults in it always appears first as "potentially harmful content", but every time I clicked to read it, it's rather tame and I feel rather let down. Like going to see a horror stated as "the scariest movie this year" and it ending up more funny than unnerving; it's a disappointment (just like the BM'ers parents probably are.😁)
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