This build underlines a problem with Leatherface, and with the core game
After playing 2/3 matches Dbd as survivor, and getting facecamped by Leatherface, I wanted to try to facecamp as killer Leatherface, since he's my second main killer after Pyramid head, and see what would have happened:
I used this build: Deadlock, Corrupt, Bamboozle, Noed.
Every match, I always got a survivor within 60 seconds, and the moment I got them I started facecamping. Not in the obvious way, I did it in a way so survivors came to the hook, going away for a but and then coming back, so they wasted time.
Since survivors can be solo players, or teams but with no comms, there can be no coordination, and once more than 30/40 seconds have been wasted trying to go to the hook (as survivor) , there's no going back, especially with Deadlock.
I was with cross play off, and did more than 10 matches. Italy time, from 10pm to 1:30 am
Over, over and over there was nothing survivors could do to prevent me NOT getting at least 2 kills, especially with noed, and straight up facecamping EVERY TIME in every situation, completely no brainer, was simply the superior tactic over going for hooks. Just chill there at the hook, in the worst case scenario you know you'll have 2 kill guaranteed.
The worst thing? SBMM wasn't punishing me and giving me better survivors. Maybe it was because with cross off in that specific time there were no really strong teams, anyway I kept stomping different survivors over and over, literally survivors came at me when someone was to die on hook praying to me to chase them and don't be an #########.
Pls BHVR, as a person who believes that the game is highly unbalanced for most killers if survivors play well, this is not the right way to balance the game.
Comments
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For real, can anyone think a scenario where the killer doesn't get 2 kills ALWAYS in this scenario with Deadlock, Corrupt and Noed (+Bamboozle)? The only thing I can think is having the first chase last as long as possible, but that's not something guaranteed, some maps have very spread out pallets like mother's Dwelling so you will go down after a fixed amount of time, and chases usually don't last more than 60 seconds if the killer plays correctly.
The only exception is if you're on The Game and drop every pallet immediately, that might be the only way XD
Post edited by Leonardo1ita on2 -
Quit the game its not worth it, the devs dont care.
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Yeah, when you are trying to be nice and get hooks on everyone. Then you have one long chase and lose the game.
Funny is, that based on BHVR logic. Camp first, down second with noed and camp him for 2k is balanced game...
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They care about the wrong things, and they put very little effort into balancing the game
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Especially now that Deadlock is a perk, you ALWAYS get 2 kills, no matter what.
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If you try to get kills and not hooks, then yeah.
You can always tunnel 1 guy during game and then just camp second guy... That doesn't make it balance nor fun tho...
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The problem is more with leatherface making any save impossible. Any other killer you can trade with BT... but not against Bubba. Unfortunately no one has any idea on how to make leatherface facecamping ability less of an issue.
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That's why balancing around two kills only hurts killers.
I think killers should just stop tunneling and camping for a few months. Take the Ls and let the data begin to reflect this and maybe devs would balance for a more fun experience for both sides.
But as of now, it's a catch 22, killers feel pressured to get kills, camp and tunnel to assure at least a 2k, data shows a balanced game.
To the devs anyway.
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So what, you nerf that and he will get replaced with Trickster...
and bubba would be useless. My issue is that they just don't know how to balance. When something is an "issue" they nerf it into oblivion. Billy, Freddy, Deathslinger...
Sure something is any issue, you can nerf it and buff something to help that killer in other area. They can't do it for some reason.
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BHVR has as much of a hard time understanding issues and how to deal with it than anyone on this forum... seriously. People have as much bad understanding of what is a problem and how to deal with it than the devs does. Looking at feedbacks just proves people aren't that much better at assessing things than the devs themselves.
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Hey, that's true...
I wish they would learn something about balancing from IceFrog (Dota developer).
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Do me a favor.
Get out an excel document, or some other spreadsheet. And camp with Leatherface for about 40 games. Then come back to these forums and post your data here. Especially get the number of kills vs number of escapes.
I've been meaning to do it but I get so bored with facecamping.
Heck, maybe we could collaborate on it. I think it would be an eye-opener.
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I’d love to see actual game data, it would be really interesting to parse. There are tons of assumptions that everybody including me makes which we just have no statistics to rely on either way.
Just some random thoughts on Bubba and the original post
- Bubba is something of an oddball when it comes to facecamping because he’s one of the few killers that can get a guaranteed down on a healthy group of survivors doing a Borrowed Time rush at the end of the match. If two or more healthy survivors rush the hook against a normal killer, the killer hits one, they run, the other survivor gets the rescue and gives Borrowed Time, and then if the killer hits either of those it’s too little too late. Other killers can maybe do it with NOED, etc, but it’s not innate or guaranteed like his is. So a killer trying the same tactic as Bubba might only get one kill, or even possibly no kills if they’re really unlucky on the trades in the midgame.
- ”Keeping an eye on something else and going back to the hook” isn’t facecamping. It’s just normal defense. If you go off, check a gen, and come back to the hook that’s not a facecamp. If the survivors run in right after you hook it’s not a facecamp. You can call playing zone defense “boring” if you want but it’s not facecamping any more than patrolling a 3-gen is “gen camping”. (Which a survivor once literally accused me of. 😄)
- It’s certainly possible that Bubba’s median kill results are higher on average than other killers. Or not? Again, hard to say, but if you do the experiment you’re thinking of try it with other killers too as a control, and also try playing Bubba more aggressively as a control so you have results to compare.
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I think the stronger play with Bubba would be proxy-tunneling-off-hook rather than straight face-camping.
Basically stay within heart-beat range, act like you are going to move off of hook (instead of staring at the survivors face), then come back the second they survivors attempt to unhook someone, then down the unhooked person again. It cuts down on the hook-stage wait a bunch. (Vulture-Circling the hooked survivor makes survivors more-likely to try a rescue, rather than straight face-camping does.)
I would also be curious about using a Starstruck, Agitation, Irongrasp and Madgrit build with him and facecamping.
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I'm not sure what you're describing here is facecamping? Depending on how far away you walked, that's just intercepting hook saves, that's not the same thing as facecamping at all- hell, depending on how far away you walked and what you did in the meantime, it may not even be proxy camping.
To the larger point, though, there is certainly something to be said for pairing Corrupt and Deadlock with a campy playstyle. I'm actually curious how much value NOED gave you, though, it kinda seems like it'd only give you a down or so since survivors would just cleanse it? Bubba's also a killer people seem to be more okay being injured against, which makes NOED useless anyway outside the speed boost.
I'm also curious about seeing a wider sample size for this experiment, honestly.
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Of course not. Other killers can't do this, and if you try to go for chases with Leatherface you will lose, you gotta play campy at some point during the match
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If you're getting at least 2 Killers, then it's not an issue of how you got them. It's an issue of MMR balancing you out. For all we know, your MMR could be extremely low due to your specific playstyle which is on par to a potato Survivor.
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The problem is that you HAVE to use DS to have something to prevent going on hook immediately, or borrowed time, so it's not a base game mechanic, but it's just a single perk saving up the whole game. Because Pyramid head and Bubba demonstrate that when players can abuse things like the best tunneling and camping powers in the game, they will do it, because going for multiple chases is a lost cause, you gotta snowball
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I'll try to do it, I don't know if I should do cross on or cross off, the hardest part is that I'd have to demonstrate that I'm not cheating and that I'm actually counting all games.
The thing is: you don't have to facecamp to win. To be much more deadly, you can go away, make sure nobody is coming, then come back and the time they wasted is always enough to kill someone and still be at 2/3 gens with Deadlock. It's so gross, especially if you do it against solos, there's no chance they win. I won ALL those 10 matches, and wasn't getting any insane SBMM players to destroy me with cross off, I was going against always the same players. The only thing that prevents someone with no heart doing this is getting many less bloodpoints
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If you just facecamp the hook, and stay there completely no brainer, solos have no way to communicate apart from using kindred, and you'll always get 2 kills no matter what with Noed, Corrupt and Deadlock. No chance to trade, bodyblock, nothing. Just hope the first chase lasts ages.
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No point trying using those perks, the main threat for survivors is Deadlock. Because they can't do gens as fast when you facecamp, there's much less punish for facecamping.
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Maybe Noed isn't even the best thing to use, because your chainsaw is already super good at preventing a kill in the endgame just zoning survivors. I don't know, maybe pain resonance or no way out?
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The fun thing is that with his perk BBQ, Franklin's and knock out, Bubba is supposed to go around the map, slug a bit, and instead right now the best strategy is just straight up facecamping XD
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Idk if I'd say it unfairly affects killers but it's certainly unhealthy for the game
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Yeah, it's just impossible to get everyone to deadhook first against decent squad.
So best you can do is either lose, or learn when is best moment to get someone out of the game, so it's still fair for both sides...
It's just boring to tunnel from first hook, so I usually want to give them a chance, but it often backfires :D
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Yeah, and that time you played fair and in a fun way they start to tbag and flashlight macro you when you lose/win, and you wish you just facecamped everyone no mercy since the beginning
Post edited by Leonardo1ita on0 -
I hate those. I am always so pissed when this happens...
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You're proxy camping not face camping, which is worse imo. Face camping survivors know hey hes at the hook its bubba in basement do gens.
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