No Way Out is extremely unfair and overpowered
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The title says it all and really needs no explanation. The perk No Way Out is so unfair and overpowered that I don't know how it made it to live in its current state. If I read it correctly, the killer can get up to an entire minute of the exit gate levers being blocked off from survivors. I have seen so many survivors literally stare at the lever and die from time running out with the levers blocked off. The perk punishes survivors in the end game for being hooked during the match. It doesn't matter if we make it to the end game if the killer has max tokens with this perk. How in the hell is this freaking perk fair when the levers to the gates are blocked off from interaction for that long? This perk being the way it is along with keys being nerfed to hell and the camping/tunneling just has me so done with this game. I am so sick of killers getting insane powers especially in the end game and having situations where survivors are literally powerless to do anything about it. This game isn't fun anymore.
EDIT
For more clarity on my opinion of this perk, I am mostly referring to the situation when the killer closes the hatch when only 1 survivor is left. I forgot to mention that before. Overall however I think this perk's power should be halved or at the very least extend the timer for the amount of time the perk adds to blocking the levers. That way we still have to hide until the doors are able to be accessed.
Comments
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Meh...
Like what will it do? It will get you extra kill. Oh, so broken. It's basically NOED effect. You play whole game with 3 perks and it will give you a chance in end-game. How is that OP?
If you don't screw it, you will escape anyway.
And it's weird to look at it as "punishes survivors for being hooked during the match". It's better to look at it as "rewards killers for hooking different survivors". This perk is actually worse if you are camping / tunneling, because you are not going to get full duration...
That perk design is actually really healthy and we need more perks with same system. Hey, we got that, but Grim Embrace sucks...
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Nope. The perk is overpowered. I don't care if it makes killers hook different survivors. That doesn't make the perk fair. If we literally cannot interact with the lever with this perk active then the timer should be extended for the amount of time it makes the levers blocked. If the killer finds the hatch the last survivor is pretty much dead. It needs to be changed.
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There really isn't anything survivors aren't going to complain about.
A perk that rewards the killer for spreading hooks around the match by giving them more time to finish the job when the gens are finished is not overpowered nor does it need a change. The only situation in which the perk can seem oppressive is when there's only 1 survivor remaining and that's a situation that already favored the killer.
Also you complain about camping and tunneling and then want to nerf a perk that rewards a killer not doing that.
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So your issue is that this perks help you kill last survivor, if killer finds hatch?
It's kinda funny for a killer, when you see survivor waiting till last moment just to die to end-game timer...
but I wouldn't really care, if they make it work only when all gens are finished. I don't think it is needed tho.
If this is your issue, do you think Whispers is broken too? Because you are never going to leave as last survivor against Whispers...
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Yeah, but as I said, if that last survivor situation is his issue, then Whispers is broken too, I guess?
You are just not going to leave against Whispers as last survivor unless you get lucky with hatch...
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There are a plenty of situations in which the final survivor is not escaping out the exit gate if the hatch is closed. Sometimes doors spawn on the same wall. Sometimes the killer can watch both doors because there's no LoS blockers on either door.
There's no reason to balance for the last survivor and exit gate situation, because that's inherently killer sided and there's not a problem with that because the killer has already won the game.
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Yeah, I mean it's nice that you have a chance to escape even when you lost a hatch search, but it really shouldn't be a guaranteed thing.
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It encourages the Killer to go after all 4 Survivors and spread out hooks for a reward that only applies at the end of the match.
It is perfectly balanced, and is frankly one of the best perks they have ever added to the game imo.
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Now way near overpowered perk and I rarely even see it to be used.
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No Way Out is fine as it is. It's a perk that the killer actually has to work for to get the full effect (hooking each survivor once). Also the perk helps to promote fair gameplay by reducing tunneling since the killer needs to hook each survivor.
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Oh boy hello katemain I thought you quit nice to see you around.
Since you always complain about tunneling and camping you actually should like this perk it gives the killer a reason not to tunnel and camp cause it makes his endgame viable and to be fair gens go relatively fast atm so endgame builds are a good chance for killers. The only thing I don't get is what timer are you talking about? Do you mean the end game collabs? That thing only starts if the killers closes the hatch and let's be real what are the odds the last survivor escapes through the gates at this moment anyway I actually never saw that happen
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This! Even if they nerfed all good or ok-ish killer perks these people would never be happy but just go to the next perk or killer asking for nerfs.
Game is survivor sided if you think playing against a killer going with three perks until the very end is OP then you are a bad player. Practice and get better. It's strange that we good survivors never complain about these things..
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Or you could not complain about a Perk that will grant you one kill, if any?
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It actually rewards the killer for getting multiple hooks and playing through the end game.
It does not punish survivors. People really got to get away from this mindset that if a perk works against you, it's a punishment.
It's a game with perks , play your build how you like. And adapt to your competitors'.
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The main question I think is, how many extra hooks should a perk give you on average to be worthwhile but not overpowered? No Way Out extends the match a minute and tells you where a survivor is, so combined it’s probably an extra hook or maybe two if you’re lucky in 60 seconds. That seems reasonable when you compare it to, say, Haunted Grounds or Make Your Choice which can get you an extra hook or two each, or with Pop Goes the Weasel which can extend the match 60-80 seconds or so. Or Corrupt Intervention which can add about a minute to the game as well.
I don’t think a 60 second extension is out of line with other good perks, just my take.
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I think one thing that bugs op is that it steals time from the egc if you are the last one and killer closes hatch but to be real that is a situation the survivor will most likely lose either way
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Umm. I've had 100+ of these. Wake Up value.
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If the killer finds the hatch then the last survivor usually doesn’t escape anyways at that point. The killer has basically already won the match at that point and if you get unlucky with door spawns you’re screwed regardless.
NWO is not OP. It’s blocked for a while, yeah, but you don’t need to wait right next to a blocked gate for the killer to come get you. Hide and wait it out or go heal and save your teammates while you’re waiting. You have plenty of counterplay.
It’s actually a very fair and fun perk unlike noed.
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If you think a killer can't camp or tunnel and still benefit greatly from this perk then you're wrong. The only thing they have to do is hook each survivor 1 time. In fact it seems tunneling would benefit this perk because if only 1 survivor is left what chance do they have to escape with a full token no way out? Camping is a toxic move by killers and survivors often try to save the person being camped because they know its a toxic move. I guess we should be punished for simply trying to save someone on our team.
Also just for clarification, I am talking about a last survivor situation although I think the perk altogether needs to be changed to half its time. I have seen so many last survivors die with no other option because the lever was blocked off even when the end game timer ran out. This is not fair. This perk does not discourage camping or tunneling. At best it might prevent it from happening for the first few minutes. Maybe you should think about WHY survivors complain about a lot of things in this game. Most survivors in my opinion are just trying to have fun, meme and get jumped scared in a scary game and aren't trying to be the best looper in the world.
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It is absolutely not OP.
You have to hook multiple survs for it to work which can be hard enought for many killers.
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When and where did I say I quit? I have said I would in time if things didn't change. There is a difference...
Yes I do always complain about tunneling and camping because its ruining this game for survivors. I also don't really notice much less of it happening even when this perk is used.
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If a team of survivors is giving the camping killer 4 unique hooks before all the gens are done, that's a survivor issue not a perk issue.
Same thing with the killer tunneling a single survivor to death.
The issue you are having with the perk is not the fault of the perk.
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What a ridiculous perk to complain about. The killer uses an entire perk slot that doesnt do anything the entire game and gives him some extra time before endgame. it doesnt give him anything more, you can stealth it out and thats it. this perk is good in the current meta, but its no way (see the joke?) overpowered
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No.
No Way Out is one of the fairest and most balanced killer perks in the game apart from in one specific circumstance (Hatch being closed). That is the only instance NWO comes close to being unfair.
You need to hook all 4 survivors once to get the maximum effect out of it and doing that is risky because you don't want to spread hook pressure out like that - survivors win games when killers do that since it's considered 'playing nice' not cycling between 2 survivors to get one of them out quickly
If you want to counter NWO - here's the secret to it:
- As soon as the last gen is done, run to a gate, tap it to activate it then run away and hide
- If you haven't been hooked yet and think it might be in play - don't act reckless until you're sure it's not
- Pay attention to the Killer's playstyle, if they're trying to get everyone hooked once, it's fair to assume they may have it. Same with their perks if they have NOED or are committing to a camp then it's also possible they have it.
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No, but it still benefits the perk anyway. You're trying to say we should do nothing in a situation where the killer is clearly being a toxic jerk to someone just so this perk doesn't gain power. We don't even know if they have it until the end. There is too much risk to make the "right" decision in every match and all we can do is hope things work out for the best in the end. And also, a camping killer is a toxic killer issue, not a survivor issue.
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What is this clown behavior?
I mean you're basically giving up a perk slot that could've been used to avoid getting the gates powered in the first place with the game's many strong progression slowdown perks or a perk that can end you chases faster and more efficiently.
Also big bonus, it STOPS THE KILLER FROM TUNNELING if they want to use to get value.
I have NWO on some of my killers and 1/4 matches we don't even go into 5 gens if the killer is a strong slugger or tracker.
Whining about no way out is like whining about the survivor running hope instead of running the usual double boons+dh+ds or the dreaded ds+dh+ub+bt..
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Yep and I updated my OP to clarify I am mostly referring to the situation of last survivor and hatch being closed.
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No the killer wins the game when the last survivor dies. No perk should give the killer this much of an end game advantage if one survivor is left and the hatch is closed. What is the survivor's option at this point without a key? Perks like this are going to force survivors to use keys just so they can have an option to escape against build's like this.
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Just to clarify, No Way Out went live in a much worse state. It originally blocked the gates immediately as soon as the last generator was completed, which led to the situation where survivors were never physically impeded from opening the gates by the perk because of the travel time it took to get to the gate.
Thats when BHVR buffed the perk so that it wouldn't activate until someone touched an exit gate and extended its duration.
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Literally just plan for it and play accordingly. Just because a perk makes you play differently instead of mindlessly holding a button doesn't make it too strong. It's strong, not broken
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The killer gets there victory when they 3K or 4K, 2 escape 2 die it's a draw, 3 or 4 escape survivors win.
The killer has already won the match after 3 people the 4th is just extra at this point. To say No way Out is "OP" Why don't you just use Urban Evasion and Iron Will or Dance With Me or how about use Diversion to throw a pebble to make a noise somewhere else to sneak away once it pops up I've seen that happen many times or if you have shadow step near a gate why not just use that and sprint away?
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The perk is quite balanced, in that it has a token build up and the Killer has to work hard to hook every single unique Survivor in order for it to work.
Yeah, it suck to be the last Survivor in the trial, your teammates dead, the killer finds the Hatch first, and you are pretty much screw in that situation where there is no place to escape... or hide quick enough or be patient long enough to open the exit games in time. But.... you and your teammates should have gotten all the gens Done fast enough, deny the killer any hooks; in order to completely make the perk useless. All I can say... the Killer got hid rewards for playing well, and you didn't do well enough to protect your teammates and prevent the killer from getting you in thay predicament. So, BG for you there, and try again!
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When there is 1 survivor- MAYBE. Because when I closed the hatch and started to walk to the doors, one was already open before I even knew it was.
But it's not really an overpowered perk, it's strong which is a good thing. Because there are a number of survivor things that is strong that hasn't been resolved or nerfed, and a ton of killer things that have been nerfed when they weren't needed.
Not every killer perk is strong, and usually if it is then it can be taken away from them because it's most likely a Hex Perk that was destroyed in a few seconds.
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If you're the only survivor who is left you already lost, the chance to escape should be tiny, much like unhooking yourself.
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Again a fundamental debate - why should the last survivor have to escape?
If you are last and Hatch is closed it is bad luck. You most likely die.
Sometimes you maybe get super lucky search a chest and find a key or manage to open the gate somehow.
But if a killer got to this state he simply has won.
Go on to the next game.
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I mean I guess it depends on what you consider a win. Personally if 3 survivors die I consider that a win for the killer regardless of whether the 4th escapes or not.
Just because the killer has closed the hatch and gotten to endgame without losing all the gens doesn't mean they should lose one of their perks that did nothing at all before that point. And as someone else already mentioned, the 1v1 endgame inherently favors the killer even without this perk (and it should). It actually was like this with its original version - it only triggered when the last gen was done and closing hatch meant it didn't activate at all.
All that said, there is counterplay to it in a 1v1 as long as you don't waste too much time before you touch an exit gate. It's going to be very hard to escape against it, yes, but it isn't completely impossible.
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