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The Devs Have Murdered Their Game And They Don't Even Know It.
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Well, yes. Because the current meta is stale, and killers want another choice that is viable at higher MMRs (survivors do too, even if they don't realize it). Artist came close, but her addons are just a bit too bleh.
Balance is always a moving target. The big issue to my mind is the enormous delta between the viability of killers/addons/perks, which ossifies the meta once you get beyond a certain point. It's boring for survivors to face nothing but Blight, camping Bubbas or Huntress for the majority of their games, and it's frustrating for killers to get sent to Haddonfield or Badham as Pig and feel like they lost the game at the killer selection screen.
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The fact COH stacks with first aid kits makes zero sense. Surely they realise how powerful it is?
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Put a Doritos in your middle of your screen. Whenever you get a shot then you can eat your reward.
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And pyramid head cant see where the cages went, they changed that quick
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I play killer sometimes but a lot of them it's just no fun. The hit validation is somewhat annoying. I've had a few times when I've had a clear hit and apparently the game thought it didn't count and the survivor vanishes. MMR hasn't solved any problems in my eyes I'm a low level killer still being put up with survivors that can flatten me. Let's not forget about the players who DC the second you down them or they know they're about to die.
Just today I learned that flashlights can blind you from the side when you're not even looking at the survivor so yeah that's annoying too.
survivors still do the last second switch to screw with killers when it comes to items so you don't have time to counter. Killers can't do that.
On the other side though as survivor the camping and tunneling has gotten bad in the last month. no matter what "Level" that you don't know you're at EVERY killer I've seen does it now. I use kindred so I see it even when it's not happening to me. They pick one target and that's it. or they slug for the 4K right off the top.
Yes in some of those situations it's because the team doesn't work well or think defensively but it still happens.
It's not just the killer side that's getting bad, it's all around.
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The game evolves and so do the players. Thinking about a 2 window shack would just make the game unplayable. You want to play against a bunch of noobs while yourself also being unable to understand the base mechanics, so that old shack becomes 'playable' for both sides? That's a really strange request bro...
I played my first match DBD mobile on Lerys and I couldnt handle the controls, so I got stuck at every other door. But that was fine fir the moment as the killer had the same problems, whiffing 3 times before landing a hit, while I basically didn't loop but just tried to not run into walls. Sorry but that's not what I would wish for...
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This is a baby that doesn't need to be thrown out with the bathwater.
what are you talking about I have over 1k hours mostly under the last system and I gave MMR a pretty fair shot and it was garbage. Not to mention I wasn't even only talking about MMR which I consider being a sidegrade at best but usually a mild downgrade but many other things as well.
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People have given tons of legit criticisms on why the game is not in the best state it's been but honestly, the only thing I have to say is CoH to disprove that. That perk alone is one the most busted perks the game has ever seen and it's not like bugs have gotten any better either. Killers don't need to be super strong to at least be unique and fun to play as and against which we haven't had in well over a year now. But nah it's the community that's gotten worse not the game sure.
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"People have given tons of legit criticisms on why the game is not in the best state" Ok, lets look at some of the most popular complaints shall we?
Matchmaking? Always has been terrible, but we literally have people acting like they're a victim just because they're going against people their own skill level
CoH? Self Care used to be better and much better when it comes to time efficiency, not to mention healing speeds in general were faster (took 12 seconds instead of 16)
Maps being terrible? Used to be even worst as the majority of maps used to be larger, had much stronger loops and an even bigger number of pallets. Not to mention the only killers that had mobility back then were Nurse and Billy, Hag had such a short teleport range and set up time that it just wasn't worth it, and Wraiths Windstorm add ons just gave him a speed boost after uncloaking at the cost of his movement speed when uncloaking.
Stale Meta? Used to be even worst! DS/BT/Exhaustion/Self Care. "Hey that sounds like todays meta!" Well you'd be right! Except everything used to be much stronger, DS not needing a hook and no timer, BT working on both the person unhooked and the savior while also providing Endurance for a much longer time and a much longer bleed out timer, Exhaustion being able to be recovered while running making you have to possibly deal with more than 1 Sprint Bursts or Dead Hard on that 1 pesky survivor you refuse to let go.
Same goes for killers, since back then you only really had Ruin, NOED, Enduring, Brutal, Whispers and Nurses. BBQ only got added towards the end of the true dark times.
The only reason why this game survived is because of how unique it is, if it stayed the way it was before then it would of died 100%. Not only was it an ACTUAL unbalanced mess but it was buggy as all hell. Not to mention p2p which had people abusing lagswitches and it wasn't all that uncommon.
All the complaints that I and many others had from back then are gone, the game has grown, the community turned into a bunch of babies
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Yes, but understand that players with 1000 hours are an extreme minority.
For newbies, or us intermediate players, SBMM works better.
There is a reason those '100 no addon win streak' videos could occur under ranks, but not SBMM.
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Most of those problems are still in the game though and CoH is almost just as if not more busted then old self care since you can stack it with a medkit and it gives the buff to your whole team, get heals down to as little as 4-6 seconds easily. Sure some of the meta perks are weaker now then they used to be most of the killers meta is weaker now too except for arguably ruin but that can still go down in 30 seconds even with undying and it happens fairly often. Plus both sides have lost a lot of their nuclear options in many red addons for tools and killer have been heavily nerfed as well as keys and moris. Hit validation has removed the 9ne thing that kept dead hard from being completely op, namely its inconsistency. Realm reborn has made many maps its touched just as bad as the old maps and returned many of the god loops the game used to have but now with a breakable wall(woohoo). Plus RCPD is a massive indoor map that sucks for both sides. They've had years to fix matchmaking and what they released is at best a sidegrade with MMR being just as ineffective at determining skill as the old system and honestly feels worse, with the month and or so that I played it, my only takeaway was that it was even more erratic then the previous system but at least it doesn't unfairly punish or reward certain kits like the old system did for killers like wraith and billy. If the vast majority of the community doesn't like where the game is going then it might jot just be that the community has gotten worse it might actually mean the game has too.
If dbd had any proper competition it probably would've died years ago but now that it has so many big licenses and is so established its becoming increasingly difficult for a game to become successful in this rather niche genre. Also recent killer designs have been awful, the game is still just as buggy as it used to be too (although that waxes and wanes with the chapters). All this is compounded by the fact that BHVR seems more disconnected then ever and changes seem to be decided with a dart board.
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My guy when I was still playing I was still randomly getting placed with people sub triple digit hours one game and people with 6k hours the next. It's just more random now or atleast that was my experience with it. I'll admit I haven't played in over 3 months now so it might have improved somewhat for newbies but from the more veteran players that I talk to and watch it seems to have not improved at all. So I'm real glad that they wasted 2 years of dev time on it for to mostly be a more negative experience.
Also even for intermediate players the system seems to be awful for some and mildly better for others at least with the old system we could see what ranks we were supposed to be with, now we don't know ######### and have to assume where we are placed which just throws a massive wrench into the discussion about it, and the only way to actually see it would require you to do something that would get you banned. I also love how SBMM doesn't even measure skill it mostly only measures kills and escapes which they themselves said would be a bad system then they made extremely minor tweaks to that and shipped it.
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Agreed. Great post.
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Same.
Although I would actually be playing more Survivor if the Qeues weren't so damn long, it's easily 5min no matter what time of day/night I try for me, I've seen people claim they still get instant Survivor qeues but I personally have not seen it in a very long time.
That alone I feel like is some evidence that there is a lack of Killers playing DBD right now..
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You have to remember that is split between like 5 different servers. It's really like 10k per server.
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They haven’t killed the game. They have just sacrificed it to the entity.
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Most of those problems are still in the game to some degree, but they are not NEARLY as bad as they once were, and CoH isn't busted, it just brought back the healing meta. Realize that if you nerf healing in general, CoH takes a hit no matter what. I think it should remain as is so it stays a strong perk, but nerf healing.
Dead Hard does need a change, its unhealthy. Remove the DH for distance by adding an effect similar to Doctor's Shock, where Survivors cannot perform any actions for a brief moment. This way the perk can be used with its intended design
Wdym the killer meta is weaker? Back then you had like 6 perks to chose from. Nowadays you have so much more. Some of the perks that were meta back in the day that aren't anymore simply fell off because better options were created, Nurses Calling, Whispers, Enduring, Brutal Strength, just to name a few.
Also MMR seems to be working fine, even with a system that seems so simple it some how works. I mean you have people complaining that they're facing Survivors that are "too hard", al though the last system was a lot more unique and I feel they just needed to make it harder to pip as you got up in the ranks.
And I wouldn't say most of the killer designs have been awful, if we look at the last 3 for example they are all pretty strong and bring something unique to the table. Nemesis bringing AI, Pinhead bringing a unique slowdown mechanic and Artist having an information power that doubles as anti loop. Also you can't tell me the game is as buggy now as it was even just a year ago. Again they've been doing pretty damn well these past few patches in terms of bugs.
Also about "If the vast majority of the community doesn't like where the game is going then it might jot just be that the community has gotten worse it might actually mean the game has too.", I'll just say this. People we're literally complaining about snowmen, we have people receive free bloodpoints, and they complain that it isn't enough. This years Halloween event, probably one of the top 5 events this game has seen yet people still complained. And I can GUARANTEE you, if they just copy pasted the Hallowed Blight for next years Halloween event, literally the best event this game has ever seen and I'm sure a lot of people can back me up on this, people would find some thing to complain about.
Even here, on the forums where its a ######### fest, it wasn't nearly as bad when it first came out back in 2018. People have just gotten so much more demanding.
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Number of players :
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Game is pretty much dying. I was a huge fan of DbD, played 2000 hours for 4 years straight but since i moved on Propnight, i do not play Dbd anymore.
DbD cannot compete, Propnight is way funnier either you play teens or killer. And BHVR cannot compete with FNTASTIC, they release so many patches to fix bugs, balance and release new content.
I'm sad that DbD took this direction as honestly the Ringu announcement does hype me but the state of the game is really terrible for me to continue to play.
DbD became a camp/tunnel sweat fest where killers cannot win anymore if they play fair at average+/high level. How does BHVR doesn't fix anything while it has been years every good players agree on "the game is way too survivor sided"... CoH and SBMM have made everything worst.
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Had a whole thing typed out but hit back on my phone and it got deleted so I'm just gonna say you're wrong, you're stinky, and you should look at other people's experiences without just relying on your own.
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The game was much worse than in the past but now it is going back the other way.
The devs should have known their game well enough to know that CoH would be a huge problem and Dead Hard was fairer when there was a risk of being exhausted on the floor.
MMR isn't the problem. Balance is the problem - it just became more obvious at high MMR. A significant nerf to DH and CoH would be easy to implement and make the game feel fairer.
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Post is literally about players leaving the game and playing something else lol
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damn bro you got me
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It's definitely not, at least in my experience.
Under ranks, when I started, maybe 2/3 of my games were either against purple/iri survivors with hundreds if not thousands of more hours than myself, or the same level of survivor smurfing. Smurfing was so common and easy under ranks that even fog whisperers openly admitted to doing it for easier games.
Rank matchmaking was why those awesome (but let's face it, ridiculous) 100 win no addon streak videos were possible. Now, even Otz is struggling to get 20 win streaks. That's positive. Those crazy streaks came at the expense of less experienced players being thrown to the wolves.
Now, maybe 3-4 games in 5 are pretty even. Occasionally I'll get a 'wat' game where I'm paired up with very new or far too experienced players, but it's so much better.
I think the problem on your side has to do with queue times and lobby dodges. I'd personally be happy with longer queue times if it meant more even games, but the devs are reluctant to make these too long.
I'm fine with SBMM going off kills for killer. I do think it needs to be more nuanced for survivors, but it's very complicated to get that right.
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Because mmr played big role in making this game unfin
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You're not understanding and you're seeming to be just arguing for the sake of an argument. I am simply stating that as a high mmr killer, the game was more enjoyable in those days. Survivors were still good, they just hid. Instead of survivors chasing killers, killers actually chased survivors.
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I was arguing against your "2 window shack" that's all. A 2 window shack would be horrible, no matter with what background.
The thing you bring up now is way better as argument for the old days. I agree that survivors fooling the killer has become a playstyle that is rather annoying than anything else
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A crosshair for huntress and trickster would be a HUGE QOL improvement. Especially with a range bar to actually work on drop offs. Hell make it a freaking add on that way survivors aren’t complaining about how “noobish” it would be.
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On the contrary, I'd consider it borderline a "nerf" (not the right word, but ya). Crosshairs are REALLY distracting and once you find the center of your screen and know it you shouldn't need one anymore. There are also ways to determine it based on positioning of text on screen as well.
If it is an addon and/or you can turn it off, fine, but I really don't want one when I play normally.
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Imagine this, a Christmas Miracle!!! MMR has been turned off!!!! LOL
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I can see your point on that. Typically on FPS games I play hardcore or “realistic” so no cross hair. It takes a lot of practice to get better with the ranged killers and as a result it’s so much more fulfilling to drop a hatchet from the heavens or to toss a bouncy blade around long corridors.
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I would say making a toggle option to turn off and on
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I'm not gonna argue my or your experiences, but kills being the benchmark is very unhealthy and rewards tunneling and camping playstyles. Even a small difference of making it hooks instead of kills would be better then kills. Also I got harder games with mmr but not fair ones at least not often it was always very one sided id either get absolutely stomped with max 2 hooks or 4k before 3 gens are done.
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I just wanna say RIP Monto, RIP the legend of legends king of killers himself Marth. Shoutout to those we lost TydeTime. Extra big sad RIP Scorpionz the legend, the pig main above all pig mains, the man that inspired me to pig thoughtfully, and efficiently.
Any other killer main/ streamers out there I'm probably missing and I likely am, gonna miss you guys but I assure you, wherever yall go I'll be there too to watch the fun. Special RIP to myself and any other killer mains waiting in the wings for something to change for the better before setting foot in this clown show again.
Also special RIP to killer mains now playing survivor because killer is no longer enjoyable to play, I'll see you out there Tru3Ta1ent.
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You literally just compared trash to trash with these statements...I don't see how that gets us anywhere comparing what was dogshit back then to whats dogshit now...both of them smell like ######### so none of them are better?
Matchmaking was trash before....it didn't get any better when they hyped us up on MMR because balance was broken before they even introduced it. Comp players knew this, which is why tournament rules (RULES THAT EXISTED BEFORE MMR) put such a heavy slant against survivors....like cmon...its common knowledge.
Healing speeds before were broken, so much they needed to do a full rework on healing time, change the way mangled worked, and change a bunch of other healing debuffs. COH just undid the balance pass they already did to healing....like ######### was the point of nerfing self care and changing up insta heals etc....
Stale meta, and you bring up again...things that were busted back then that got fixes later. DS being the main culprit, and theres never been a problem with exhaustion perks (yet.....knock on wood knowing BHVR...) We had one instance where you could move in a 360 while casting dead hard and from what I remember that got fixed....(knock on wood again) And people bringing self care into a match even back then was a huge waste of time. Don't even get it twisted, killers loved when survivors would go SC without any botany bonus or anything else and just sit and spin for 15-20 seconds while you make your way to their other team mates because a lot of the time it was a crutch for bad survivors to not save properly and heal and cordinate with their team mates. AKA a solo queue perk.
Either way it goes...We could sit here for an hour going over what was trash back then, and whats trash now....problem is....why the hell are we still giving excuses for the trash in either timeline like its a good thing? Like ######### are we actually doing?
I'll call your bet, All the complaints that we had from back then are gone....if we pretend they're all gone. But if we actually...and I mean DEEPLY look critically into whats going on now...ITS LITERALLY NO DIFFERENT THAN IT WAS 5 YEARS AGO! 1 Step forward....2 steps back <--Bro...this is literally Korean Micro transaction game logic. 1 Patch to address player concerns, and another 2 patches afterwards to completely ######### up and create new problems you just fixed...
Just fixed healing...no problem lets ######### it up by introducing broken ass healing perks.
Just fixed map size....no problem...lets ######### it up by having our algorithm generate tripple T walls with windows and create cancerous ass maps like RPD.
Just fixed pallets.....no problem....lets ######### it up by adding ridiculous hit validation adding back in pallet vaccumes from 15 meters away.
Just fixed P2P latency by making dedicated servers! No problem! LETS JUST ######### IT UP BY ADDING IN HIT VALIDATION THAT COSTS YOU A STUN WHEN IT WORKS AND NOBODY EVEN GETS HURT WHO NEEDS TO LAG SWITCH WHEN THE GAME DOES IT FOR YOU!
Make it make sense my guy, we both been here a long time....make it make sense...
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^This. They could remove MMR today, turn it off and never turn it back on again and the game would still be just as a big of a mess. A mess that gets compiled and compacked more and more every 3 months with the addition of even more perks (why perks are being utilized as the only thing to balance the game out I don't know) they have to rekit replan and rebalance every time because they don't have a general ruleset for whats possible, and whats not possible. No caps. Heal speed cap, gen regression cap, move speed cap, etc etc. Where are the parameters in this game to make sure that anything you add into it doesn't shoot the whole damn game off the rails.
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"I just compared trash with trash" I mean this is about Dead by Daylight's best timeline right?
What is the correlation between Tourneys and MMR? And yeah, Survivors may have "heavy slants" but wanna know something? So do killers! Restrictions go both ways, this goes for perks and add ons.
Healing has always been an issue that just recently got a giant spotlight shined onto it, I will agree it was pretty damn stupid of them and I hope they don't do the lazy route of just nerfing CoH, but reworking healing in general. Maybe adding a cap to healing speeds and a limit to how many times you can heal yourself/others in a match
There are very little ways to abuse DS, if any nowadays. Also Exhaustion perks were most definitely an issue, being able to recover Exhaustion while running meant that Survivor could either Sprint Burst/Dead Hard multiple times in chase, or if they were left alone even for a little bit after a chase they would likely get it again at some point. Pair that with loops that were much harder to deal with and you had a damn hard time. Also do you not remember how bad Self Care really was? People are complaining about CoH, something that takes 32 seconds to set up and actually get a proper heal out of, that can temporarily disabled. Yes it gives it to your entire team but back then almost every one was running Self Care because there were so little perks that were actually worth running. And everyone having access to a 24 second heal when the killer had nothing (Sloppy Butcher didn't apply Mangled at that time) to slow it down other than Thanatophobia, which added a measly 1.8 seconds best case scenario. Also only 4 killers had access to Mangled thanks to add ons, being Trapper, Billy, Huntress and Bubba.
Healing, we've touched on this
Maps again have been a big issue with DbD and I do hope some day we can live in a world that has proper maps
Also I don't understand this whole pallet vacuum thing, if this is how you remember it you might need to refresh your memory.
Hit Validation could literally not give you the scream or blood and then what? Like I agree, it needs to be fixed because it can be irritating. But what happens when they remove the scream and blood? The outcome remains the same, your hit got rejected because you didn't deserve it in the first place.
But hey, I'm just some silly little guy who's own optimism gets the better of him. I'm sure I'll be disappointed some day and join the hivemind.
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