A Facecamping Fix that actually works.
Here is a fix for facecamping that has proven to work and it has already been tested and vetted by an enormous amount of player testing. Plus it doesn't punish the killer. In fact, you have the code to implement it in the game.
Use the same code you use for Pyramid Head's cages and apply it to hooks. When a survivor is hooked, he is teleported to a hook that is temporarily generated, just like a Pyramid Head cage. Then when they are unhooked, the generated hook disappears.
We know it works already. The developers already has the code. It has been heavily tested and works. It ticks every single box for a facecamping fix.
Comments
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Except for a few things:
- What if it's EGC? The Killer has nothing to do but camp, at that point. His objective is to kill, and his hook teleporting away basically means the Survivor will be freed. Basically; this idea screws Killers in the end game by handing free unhooks to Survivors.
- What if it teleports in front of an open door? Or a 99% door? Once again; the Survivors are given a gift-wrapped unhook when the Killer literally has 0 goals other than 'secure kills'. Once again; the Killer is screwed by free unhooks being given to Survivors.
Not as flawless an idea because it misses that one check box for a facecamping fix: Not screwing Killers out of legit kills.
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It's an interesting idea. One thing, you don't need to randomly generate the hook per se, all the hooks are already on the map. Just use an existing hook should be fine.
If this were implemented they'd probably also have to do something like slow gens down slightly to compensate since overall this is going to negatively impact kill rates.
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Seconding that it would need to deactivate in the endgame, since a hooked survivor is the only environmental bait a killer has once all the generators are completed.
This would definitely be a better fix than most other suggestions with that change, though. The most important parts of a fix for facecamping is two elements- it mustn't screw over killers playing legitimately, and it mustn't be something that survivors can abuse. I don't see a way for survivors to abuse this, though it'd need to be tested, so that first part is the only part that needs addressing here.
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It's completely valid for the killer to pick the hook they want to hook the survivor on, because it allows them to build pressure by selecting the spot. It's also completely valid to defend the hook from unhook attempts. You basically want to hard nerf a killer's ability to generate pressure from winning a chase.
Making hooks in the PH cages is not a good solution.
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Oh, I misread- I thought you meant just the relocation if the killer is camping, not the initial hook. That part's bad, the killer has plenty of reasons to want to pick the hook that they're hooking a survivor on- if nothing else, Scourge Hook perks would be useless with that portion.
The relocation part is possible, but not the initial hook.
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If you initially hooked on a Scourge hook, the effect would carry over. So you would still get the Scourge hook effect.
Seconding that it would need to deactivate in the endgame, since a hooked survivor is the only environmental bait a killer has once all the generators are completed.
I think that's a good idea, to deactivate it during endgame. Killers definitely need to keep the ability to hook-camp at EGC.
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How do you determine whether or not a killer is "camping"? If I hook in the middle of three gen and I'm patrolling the hook and gen at the same time, I've done everything right. Why should my hook disappear?
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It acts the same way as a cage. Camping doesn't cause it to relocate, it's automatically relocated.
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I think even the tightest three-gen has quite a bit of distance between gens one and three, for instance. Make it so the killer leaving the radius of the hook refreshes the time they have to be standing there before it relocates, and it'll actively reward you for patrolling instead of sticking too hard to the hook itself.
I'd also probably suggest that a chase in the radius also deactivates it, if I were to make this concept work. I'm not necessarily saying that this is the best solution, but it's one that isn't so fundamentally broken that it's a nonstarter.
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Ah. So I simply don't have the option to decide where I want to hook. A tactic nerf to agitation.
No thank you. Hard pass.
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The radius would have to be quite tight to not needlessly punish a killer for playing everything right. Seems like it would also be an implicit buff to mobility killers as well, which is not needed in the slightest.
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Just because it works for pyramid head doesn't mean it works for every killer. Plus even a smart pyramid head will often choose to pick up and hook in an area he wants to be in and patrol (near his 3 Gen or near loops he's already filled with his trail)
The fix to hook camping will be something much more complicated than just teleporting survivors to randomly generated hooks. That's not to mention how many perks you'd be killing on both survivors and killers. The game is designed around picking up survivors and bringing them to a hook, it'd be a massive overhaul to just remove that from the game.
Starstruck, Mad-git, iron grasp, monstrous shrines (and basement hooks in general), Decisive strike, flip-flop, power struggle, flashlights, boil over etc. Just to name some of the perks that would die. This would hurt more killers than it would help actually. Since proxy camping and playing around your hook is often a valid killer strategy, especially with certain killers abilities. And it's been said as well, but often times pyramidheads cage actually spawns right near another survivor/gen/exit.
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This doesn't stop Killers bring survivors to hooks. It's what happens to a survivor after they are hooked.
Once a survivor is hooked, they are teleported to a random hook away from the Killer.
In a perfect world, facecamping wouldn't be a problem. However, facecamping has become such a viable option that players are stopping playing the game because of it. It also means that Killers who don't facecamping are also being punished because gen speeds are adjusted for facecamping, which is one of the most efficient tactics a killer can currently use.
You remove facecamping, gen speeds can be slowed down.
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Of course the killer must be able to protect his hooked survivor if he wants or need to. There would be no killers left in the game if you cripple them even more.
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If plays are quitting in droves, it's not from the developers trying to make the game more fair for both sides. They're leaving in droves because something isn't fair or fun, like a killer staying within 6 meters of a hooked survivor and completely preventing that survivor from being rescued. That's the kind of experience that immediately turns a new player away from a game.
I see a lot forum-killers threatening the developers with leaving and the developers know that's not going to happen and honestly, it's kind of insulting and probably leads to Dead-Hard buffs.
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Oh but I am winning a lot, because I only play survivor. And how often do I get facecamped? More or less never and when I do..so what? On to the next game. I would hate to see the game changed because of some crybabies who thinks they have the right to choose how a killer should act and behave.
I have said it a lot but it's just like football/soccer. If your strength is in defense then that is how you need to play even if everyone is complaining about how boring it is to play against or to watch from the stands. You can't force Stoke City to go all out attacking Barcelona they will lose every time. People should be free to play how they want without the other side forcing something to be changed just because they don't like it.
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So make 3 genning impossible? How bout no
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What about basement? Is proxy camping the same? Or killers that don't camp but tunnel, which is another issue.
Pyramid's cage was reworked like that, because what was happening was pyramid would send the cage, then go to the cage because typically that was where the survivors would be going to. Also in part due to blocking the unhook animation. So will killers be able to see the hooked survivor? If yes, then you haven't fixed the issue, if no then killers won't be able to make in reasonable strategy, it would be largely down to luck. For example, killer hooks survivor, then goes to hook and sits just outside range. survivors attempt to unhook, either killer shows up and starts camping, or the cage gets sent away and killer runs to the next spot to defend it.
There are a lot of variables and I personally don't think pyramid's cage rework was that great.
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This isn't going to work not because it sucks but it's because the game is so rng and bug heavy you can almost guarantee something will go wrong this happened.
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I don't like the idea that the survivor should be relocated as soon as they are hooked because the choice of the hook is important (it can be used to guarantee regression on a gen, to push survivors towards an area etc...).
I'd rather make is so the survivor is teleported to another hook if the killer stands too close for too much time, just like it already happens with PH's cages. It would only prevent facecamping, but not patrolling and soft camping since the range would be fairly small (according to the wiki the range is 5m and the timer is 3.5s). It shouldn't work when survivors are in close proximity though, otherwise it could be exploited by coordinated teams to relocate the survivor and unhook them in safety.
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Gen speeds are not adjusted for face camping. Gen speeds have always been ridiculous because they want survivors to escape easily when they choose to.
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The problem is, the rules specifically allow facecamping.
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Like I said in the other thread: The devs (and what seems like the majority of the playerbase) are fine with proxy/soft camping, but facecamping has been specifically called out by design and development teams as something BHVR wants to discourage and remove.
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It's worse than I even gave it credit for then. This would be an extremely bad change and make killer much more miserable to play. Facecamping is something killers elect to do because it slows gens down by forcing people to come play at your hook.
Removing the killers ability to control their hooks is an awful idea and only serves to make Killers across the board weaker, and prevent the use of a ton of perks and map control through hooks.
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Link?
Here's the best I can find, taken from the Q&A Stream.
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