DBD is balanced. Matchmaking is not.
Now I already know the title alone is enough to trigger 90% of the people in the forums but here me out.
The game is balanced, but it's not balanced in a way that most of the player base likes. In a game that is 4 v 1, true BALANCE would mean an average of 2k/2 escapes meaning that in reality, killers should pretty much be barely killing that 2nd person and maybe be working towards a 3rd
Now of course that doesn't happen for a number of reasons:
- Mismatches in skill levels (Baby killers being paired with expert survivors OR baby survivors being played with expert killers)
- Sweat fest. Sometimes people just bring in the most OP add ons and abilities they can to tilt the game in their favor (on both sides)
- People doing challenges and not focusing purely on survival
- Altruism against people who want to play for easy kills because let's face it, most of us have had a game or 500 games that has gone terribly because we (the survivor team) want to put effort into making the gaming experience of the poor bloke getting tunneled with 4 gens remaining not a completely miserable experience.
- Map balance (because we all know there are bad maps for survivors and killers, although I don't see why so many killers had the lodge because I always to well there but....)
If matchmaking actually worked correctly and maps were balanced out, that would fix a majority of the ACTUAL game issues. Everything else is just the player base which.... fun bunch of people we are XD
Anyway, that's my opinion which I'm sure people will be quick to disagree with. If you're getting 4ks, you're doing way better than you should be doing as killer and the game isn't balanced. If 4 survivors are escaping, then they're doing way better than they should be as survivors.
Comments
-
(Quick clarification: Yes I'm aware that if the AVERAGE is a 2k/2 escape goal, then there will be some cases where it's a 3/1 escape/death or vice versa or even worse a 4/0 escape/date or vice versa but those should not be the norm on either side)
0 -
The game will never achieve any sort of balance.
To many variables, Some perks are fine for solo, but are busted when a swf comes into play.
5 -
"true BALANCE would mean an average of 2k/2 escapes meaning that in reality, killers should pretty much be barely killing that 2nd person and maybe be working towards a 3rd"
That's not how averages work. :P
0 -
I made a clarification comment above immediately after posting because I knew someone was gonna say something about that. It's like.... 2 comments above yours
0 -
Out of all the things you listed, I think map balancing would be the best place to start. To balance Killers in a way where they can handle a SWF while also not completely ravaging a solo team would be too many spinning plates to count. So if every map were done in a way where no areas could be abused would be nice. It would help new players not have to learn the intricacies of a map just to survive a chase for longer than ten seconds, or spend minutes bloodlusting for a hit. For any map to have a high skill play of "Oh yeah dont go there" is plain bad map design.
0 -
If the game is supposed to be balanced by 2K and 2E.
Lets say its a fair play tame without tunnel/slug or anything.
How much effort would killer need to input compared to survivors doing loops and gens.
Maps are at the worst, especially regarding SWF comms and splitting around gens. So now you have to decide, will you pressure North part or South part of the map. Loosing which side gens is more important to create tight triangle.
How long are the games plan to last? 5 or 15 min?
As long as survivors spawn directly on gens. As long as killer with optimal play trades 2-3 hooks for 2 gens, I dont see it balanced
0 -
That's still not necessarily true. All it really means is that you should be winning about as often as you are losing. If the vast majority of games are a draw, something has gone wrong with the game design/balance.
0 -
To get 2 kills, not a lot of effort at all. When I play killer, I regularly walk away with 2-3 kills with absolutely no tunneling and slugging (just because I play both sides and find those playstyles unfun)
As far as match times, a 5-7 minute match is perfect. It should be an in and out experience imo.
I also agree that spawns need to be worked on because they're predictable, all the survivors typically spawn together which negates the offering that's meant to do that. Spawns should be random but I guess they just want to make it so survivors never spawn near the killer? idk
1 -
The issue I have with that statement (and maybe I'm misinterpreting what you're saying) is that I don't believe that getting 2 kills and having 2 survivors escape is considered a loss for the killer. I think that's a win for the killer as well as a win for survivors and I don't think the two have to be mutually exclusive if that makes sense
1 -
"I think that's a win for the killer as well as a win for survivors"
That's called a draw.
1 -
If this was the case, comp DBD wouldn’t need dozens of rules and restrictions to make it fair at the highest level of play.
0 -
So why would that be a game design or balance issue? Both sides (theoretically) should walk away satisfied with a game that ends that way.
Why should the be designed so that most survivors die or most survivors live in place of a 2-2 system?
0 -
PvP games are generally designed to have definitive winners and losers. They're not generally designed to primarily end in ties.
1 -
so ur rarely or not so much getting them comp teams. Who love doing gens asap + brand new part’s
0 -
I've never paid attention to "comp DBD" (if such a thing exist?) outside of a few tournaments between people like Meeeows, Umbra, Crunchy, Otz, Umbra, Cahlaflour, etc but those people usually play more for fun than the outcome anyway but maybe that's just because I watch people or don't take the game super seriously all the time.)
What rules do they usually have in place?
0 -
I mean if this game was truly balanced then people "supposedly" my skill level should always get 2 escapes and 2 killed even with perks... but its usually people that have little idea what they're doing but perks just carry them leading them to that 2k/2out. I wouldn't call that "balanced". Not someone that has no idea what they're doing vs someone that has a clear idea of what they're doing just getting outperked instead of outskilled.
0 -
No perk can be brought more than once for the entire team, except BT, which can be brought twice. Maps are predetermined for each killer to be on their best map because that’s what it takes for it to attempt to be evenly matched at comp. Against weaker killers, there’s usually a dozen or so perks that are completely banned outright. Certain combos such as Decisive and Unbreakable on the same survivor are also banned against basically every weaker end killer. There are some bans for killer as well, and killer-specific bans, but much fewer than those for survivor. Survivors can usually only bring 1 uncommon flashlight with uncommon or lower addons and 1 firecracker total. Pretty much every heal/reset perk is banned completely against weaker killers. So on and so forth.
0 -
Subgenres exist though so a PvP game like Street Fighter or Apex where there can only be one winner can't be designed in the same way as an asymmetric PvP game that has varying win conditions for the 2 different sides.
There's no way to fairly design an asymmetric game in which the survivors always win because then the killers won't play. And likewise, there is no way to fairly design an asymmetric game in which the killer always when because then the survivors simply won't play. There has to be a middle ground in asymmetric PvP games
0 -
Yeah, and the middle ground is "each side wins roughly about as often as they lose."
0 -
Also to correct your earlier statement: A win-win is not a draw.
A draw is a situation where NO ONE wins. If you play tic tac toe, and the game ends in a draw, it means that no one was able to win the game. Same for chess. A draw does not = win win. Draw = no winner
0 -
If there are equal numbers of escapees and deaths, neither side came out on top. That's just a draw. In order for there to be a winner, one side has to have emerged victorious over the other.
0 -
We can agree to disagree on that but as far as I'm concerned, 2 survivors escaping is a win and killing 2 survivors is simultaneously a win. If someone has to lose, it's the 2 survivors who died but I don't think it has to be a matter of one side dominating the other to count as a win
0 -
There are two teams. Both teams cannot simultaneously win by varying amounts. A team either wins, loses, or draws. I don't think there's such a thing as an in-between.
1 -
Its not, and TBF its most likely impossible, the biggest culprit being that perks work as upgrades instead of side grades. IMO the best all around perk set should be no perks meanwhile equipping perks should alter your playstyle to have stronger strengths but also bigger weakness. currently the state of the game is just shoving flex tape everywhere to have as little weakness as possible.
0 -
The game is balanced. Matchmaking is getting better every year. The main reason for imbalance is SWF.
0 -
smart feng
0 -
Depends on the org/tournament.
Typically the goal is to eliminate as much RNG as possible, limit perks/items/add ons on both sides, and create a balanced match on a balanced map. The rules often differ depending on the killer selection.
Generally speaking for survivor: one type of yellow item per survivor with yellow add ons, no more than two BTs, and unique perks otherwise for survivor. But against a low tier killer like Clown, they may not be able to run items at all or take Mettle Of Man/healing perks.
Generally for killer: individual balancing re: add ons for each killer, and each killer would have a map. No Alchemist's Ring for Blight, no range for Nurse, that type of thing. Haunted Ground is almost always banned due to RNG.
0 -
I've felt for a very long time that DBD has been killer sided. It's actually getting better and boons went a long way towards creating a real balance between killer and survivor. However, there is one thing that's undeniably true. Survivor and Killer are balanced only when killers are playing in a very unfun way. When they force death on a hook or when they tunnel out a survivor. When things were very killer sided in the past, killers had the luxury of playing nicely. They could then go from nice to mean if they felt that they were outmatched. But now if killer doesn't play dirty from the start then they're playing at a disadvantage.
The root of the problem is that the best way to play as killer is to take advantage of anything the survivors give you. Did you find out that one survivor doesn't have BT, then you can hit the survivor that they saved off of the hook. Did you find out that a survivor touched a generator after getting unhooked, then you can ignore decisive strike.
The answer in my opinion is too buff both survivor and killer. Survivors need more ways to protect a vulnerable survivor. And killers need to be able to win even when they don't have someone tunneled out of the game.
0 -
I just played a game where the killer was terrible, but managed to get one person down and just stood over them most of the game. Then we got her up, finished all 5 gens and prepped the gate, all for the killer to have Noed and hit me. Killer was going to stand over me till I crawled away and they got me on the hook last minute and face camped me the rest of the game. Then they messaged me (on Xbox) to rub it in my face.
This is why I play this game, less and less. I win most games as survivor in solo queue because I don't have SWF and I'm not much of a mic user to begin with, but if this is supposed to be high MMR killers, then why would anyone want to play with bullies.
I also play some killers, mainly Pig, Pyrqmid Head, Myers and Freddy, and I'm pretty good at them too, but not once have I face camped. Proxy camped, of course. But not staring a hooked survivor in the face and hitting them repeatedly. Yeah, I've faced off against bully SWF a few times but since I don't always play killer, it's not as big for me.
I guess my point is that if winning games/high MMR means playing against bullies, then I want no part of DBD. It's not fun, and is very detrimental to people with mental health issues. I really wish the Devs would consider something to combat this.
I'm always open for discussion on ideas on this.
0
