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Perk for anti-camping
While you are on the hook, all other survivors gain a 2/4/6% speed boost to repairing and cleanse anytime the killer is within 6m of the hooked survivor. This effect persists for 3 seconds after the killer leaves the range.
the 3 seconds prevents the leaving and coming back argument of some other anti-camping perk suggestions, and since it doesn’t apply to exit gates or healing, it can’t be abused by SWFs during endgame collapse.
Obviously the consensus is when facing a face-camper, to “just do gens” because then the killer will only get a 2k. Well this might be enough to drop that to a 1k and start discouraging face-camping.
Additionally you have to consider the bell curve of players. Most players are only average and solo que. In those ranks you can’t depend on someone else to have BT.
Comments
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This could be abused really easily
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This would be abused the exact same way the old 'Survivor can't die if camped' thing was abused. Or it was 'Survivor dies slower'. Can't remember.
Needless to say; this would be abused the exact same way.
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I have a simple solution for it, let the every survivors die on first hook and we have no camping problem.
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Hm. I don't dislike the idea of tools to aid with facecamping, but I think this one needs a little work.
I actually don't think the three-second persisting is necessary- you want killers to walk away from the hook, even if it's just to interrupt this effect, so having the effect cancel when they're out of range at least allows survivors a chance to time their save properly so they don't have to take a hook-trade the way they currently do.
If you add onto that a brief leadup where it isn't active until the killer's close to the hook for a set amount of time, I think it's a perk that could at least be tested!
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No. It's still abusable in the exact same way the old 'Survivor dies less/not at all' that was IN THE GAME was abused by 2 Survivors forcing the Killer to either camp or give up a hook, while the 4th did gens.
This is not a theoretical; a punishment for anti-camping was tried, and Survivors found a way to force the Killer into a lose/lose situation.
So no. This idea is the same thing as before, and should not be tested, because we already know how it goes.
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I don’t think it would be abused in the same way at all. The abuse of those “you cans die on hook” was in holding the game hostage, how would this be abused? You can’t force a killer to face camp you. I can’t see this being abused it’s completely relying on the killer to do something.
But I do agree that there should be a delay before its activated, so it only starts with legitimate face camping and not fair patrolling the immediate area after a hook.
It should also be noted that this is a perk and will take up a vital perk slot and the survivor may not even get any value out of it. That’s a good risk/reward scenario. The less you face camp the more handicapped the survivors who waste a perk slot.
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I feel like in this scenario, two people buzzing around the hook while one does generators is kind of the dream scenario for a killer? The boost that the one guy on gens gets isn't enough to really counteract that three survivors are being taken off that vital job.
Contrast to if it's used for its actual purpose, where three survivors are doing gens as one dies, and the boost helps them make sure that facecamper isn't getting all that much value- as well as having the extra effect of not helping in the endgame, which a simple "survivor dies slower" change would hurt.
It's absolutely still a possibility that it's abusable, but I think it's different enough that it warrants entertaining as a theoretical instead of discarding out of hand. Hell, it could always have a simple "unless another survivor is within [x] meter radius" stipulation added on top to make sure it's less abusable.
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But they're still getting a BOOST that they can force the Killer to either allow, or force an unhook. There should not be lose/lose situations the Survivors control if Killers want to be even a little bit of a threat.
This perk would absolutely turn the Killer role into more of a joke, as it would encourage bullying Killers at the hook so others could slam gens with purple toolkits and now a perk boosting genspeed even more.
No. It's abuseable, unfair, and we don't need camping PUNISHMENTS. People need to get that in their head.
Give Killers perks that reward him for multi-hooking or for leaving the hook. Stop woth the effing punishments, because every one. Every. Single. One. Has been either something so totally dirty that it would ruin the game, or something Survivors would pull out of their arse to force the Killer to either lose the hook or lose the game.
Stop. Punishments for a tactic that has valid use is stupid. It's people demanding the game be changed to punish what THEY hate instead of actual balance.
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Eh, yeah, but it's a pretty small one for only one survivor and it requires two survivors be in a position where they might get downed, while one of their teammates is actively dying. I don't consider that a lose/lose, if I realised survivors were doing that in a game I was playing I'd be pretty stoked with the situation, same way I enjoy it when people buzz around the hook right now- that's value for me, that's them messing up in a pretty big way.
Regarding the "punishments" point, do remember that this is supposed to counter facecamping, which while valid, is a pretty unhealthy and boring tactic that only works because it forces every other player to either be bored out of their skulls or play into it. I'd also like to point out that this isn't necessarily a punishment anyway, because it's a perk. If this were a basekit mechanic I'd absolutely agree that it's a nonstarter, but as a perk it becomes more open for discussion because it's something survivors have to give up other value for- a valuable slot that may get zero value if the killer doesn't facecamp.
And again, if you're really worried about it, surely putting a stipulation that other survivors can't be nearby would fix it?
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But other Survivors would not have to be nearby, or buzzing the hook. They stay far enough away that they can be SEEN, but not CHASED.
They stand 50 meters away; outside chase distance. One to the North & one to the South. (Or whatever the map allows, but in opposite directions.)
Now, if the Killer chases North; South creeps towards the hook while North runs away. No chase has started.
Killer resets. North & South reset.
Repeat if Killer goes for South.
Now, the Killer is either standing by the hook to prevent a save (but the game thinks he is facecamping, because the Survivors are sufficiently far enough away to avoid the game saying 'You saw them!'), and thus Survivors get gen speed rewards, or he's chasing one person and allowing an unhook by the other. Lose/lose.
Punishments do not work. The game can't figure out 'facecamping' from 'He saw 2 Survivors nearby' because said Survivors are far enough away to prevent a Chase from starting.
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...But those survivors still aren't doing anything. The killer in that scenario can just wait out the death timer, or if they want to be nice just let the survivor on hook progress to second stage before committing to a chase for the sake of making sure the game isn't just standing nearby, and like... two generators would be done? I haven't done the maths, maybe it works out to more maybe it works out to less, but a 6% boost for one survivor isn't that big if what the killer gets in exchange is the knowledge that the other three straight up aren't doing anything.
This doesn't seem that bad to me, this basically already happens anyway if you facecamp even at the endgame and it doesn't actually work. The hooked survivor normally still dies, and the other two survivors achieved absolutely nothing.
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But those survivors still aren't doing anything
But the one who IS is getting a boost that negates some of the progress being lost by Survivors 'not doing anything', therefore rendering this fact pretty much moot.
No. Stop. No. No. No. No punishments. This is still rewarding Survivors for forcing the Killer to camp. It's not a good idea. It's abusable. I don't care how people try to pretty it up; it's a punishment for camping that Survivors can leverage for either gen speed or a free unhook.
It astounds me how people can't see how easy this would be to abuse. Or they know and want it BECAUSE of that. Just knock out the one solo gen on the map with a free speed boost plus purple toolbox! After all; can't do that with more than one person anyways! Or finish off the gen your friend was chased off of! It's 50% done already!
It's a bad idea. Nothing can be said to make it less bad. It's fully abusable by Survivors to get gen speeds or a free unhook. How many times do I have to say that before it sinks in?
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I mean, you never actually have to camp. You can just take the trade by going and downing whichever of the two people trying to bait you feels like a better option, or you can just leave the hook straight away anyway because you have something else to do.
The worst case scenario here isn't free value for a survivor, the worst case scenario is that you fail to achieve a trade, which is still the worst case scenario for facecamping anyway. Camping - especially proxy camping - is a valid strategy, and because of that, it is also perfectly valid for the other team to have tools that can deal with it.
Seriously, your complaint really seems to boil down to the fact that this perk would do something if survivors are getting camped, which... yeah? Of course, it's supposed to do something if the killer is sticking to the hook, the only way it'd be a terrible idea not worth considering is if it also punished you for not facecamping- which is why I suggested removing the lingering effect and making it build up over a few seconds.
This isn't a punishment, this is a counter.
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My complaint is not that it would do something. Apparently you missed half my comments.
It's that SURVIVORS would pick to force the Killer to stay near a hook or allow an unhook. Let me repeat that: THE POWER ROLE would be forced into a lose/lose by this perk. Either lose extra gen progress or lose a hook and MAYBE trade, depending on if Pallet City had a discount on pallets that day.
Not to mention Dead Hard, D.Strike, and other million-chance-perks stopping the Killer from trading.
Stop with punishments for camping. Encourage Killers to not camp. This is not rocket science; people do whatever benefits THEM.
Make a perk that rewards Survivors for the Killer camping? Survivors will force the issue.
Make a perk that encourages the Killer to leave the hook? Killers will stop camping.
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So, I'll address your very last point first since it's a quick debunk- "Make a perk that encourages the Killer to leave the hook? Killers will stop camping."
No they won't. Killers who feel that they have to camp may stop, but there's no way to know if they're the majority and often that isn't the right call anyway, so we'll just take that completely off the table- perks like that are absolutely still good design, but that's a separate matter to toning down facecamping, which is the goal here.
I'll also remind you that this is still not a punishment, it's still a counter.
Now, to address the more salient point of forcing a camp by lingering around the edges of the hook radius: That is a risk. Survivors aren't untouchable gods, and depending on your killer, perks, addons, what have you, it may be that you have a severe edge whenever they try and pull something like that- and if you don't, contesting the hook like that probably isn't your best bet anyway, because survivors already pull this trick to try and lure someone away from the hook.
Survivors getting unhooks is not a dramatic fail state for you, my dude, and it's not even guaranteed even when they do that, no player is perfect and they can get pretty cocky to rush in and be caught out of position if you look like you're walking away.
Also, why highlight power role? Last I checked this perk didn't give survivors the ability to remove killers from the match, so the killer is still the power role. Being the power role doesn't mean you're in control of the situation 100% of the time, if it did this game would be tremendously boring.
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Isnt this like the exact change they were going to make to the Kindred perk?
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It wasn't ever an official (or even unofficial) plan, but it was in Scott Jund's fake hypothetical patch notes video, so you might've seen it there.
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Oh, thanks for that. there were some things i was looking forward to not that one in particular though
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This perk sucks for many reasons. Only works on the second hook state, and requires another survivor to trigger its effects. Not to mention it doesn't even tell them it's in play.
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Only other option is don't get hooked. Nothing you can do against a bubba or other strong killer from just camping people and the devs think getting 2 kills from face camping is skillful so good luck.
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Survivors don't need perks for faster gen repair.
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It was both as the devs tried a lot of anti camp features but survivors abused every single one of them.
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This will not gonna work, imagine, the killer is playing nice, not tunneling or camping, but when he hook a survivor other survivor just run like a potato to try to save the other survivor, what you think will happen... Of course the killer will chase him to not let them have a free unhook, if the survivor loop around the hook... Well I imagine you don't think in that scenario, the survivor will basically force the killer to "camping" to give his teammates a buff and DBD have a lot of hooks in strong loops, and in maps with 2 floors... Yeah, you don't think about that too.
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Survivors are humans, one hit and they're dead, except for legion he will need 2 hits, he have a little weapon, imagine taking a hit of Pyramid Head great knife in real life...
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He even mori survivors by just ######### a hit, lol.
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