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Boil over buff shows killers are hypocritical

24

Comments

  • ThatOneDemoPlayer
    ThatOneDemoPlayer Member Posts: 5,623

    Please don't say that CoH is balanced, no one that actually played with it/against it would agree, unless they straight up ignore all of the upsides it has and make a fake argument like "It takes 1 second to snuff, git gud"

  • Sluzzy
    Sluzzy Member Posts: 3,130

    Tinkerer is broken too, and "overused" on Blight. So to say killer perks are nerfed when overused is the opposite of the truth. BBQ is overused and not nerfed. They may have changed Ruin because new players could not hit the skillchecks but it really wasn't that it was overused, but they either intentionally or inadvertently made the perk much stronger. Take a Blight that is all over the map, bouncing constantly and removing people from gens. It's common for Blight to constantly keep or two survivors on the hook - how can anyone find the totem?

  • Brokenbones
    Brokenbones Member Posts: 5,169
    edited January 2022

    Fortunately i have proof to back up what I'm saying:

    "The upcoming mid-chapter update will also include a major overhaul to Hex: Ruin, and an associated update to the Gatekeeper Emblem. Recent data show that Hex: Ruin is used in over 80% of all games in the red ranks, and across the entire userbase it appears in about 45% of all games. "


    "We also looked carefully to see how it functions as part of a Killer's loadout. Beyond the obvious desire to slow down generator repair, Hex: Ruin functions as one of the very few perks effective as slowing generator repair in the first couple of minutes of the Trial. This is important to Killers' rankings because the Gatekeeper Emblem highly rewards keeping as many of the 7 generators incomplete as they can for as long as possible. "

    Source: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/117488/designer-notes-doctor-gatekeeper-hex-ruin

    You're entitled to your opinion on Blight and his 4 horseman slowdown perks, I'm not the biggest fan of them myself but nowhere in this thread did I say a perk should be nerfed purely because it's being used too much. If a perk (such as boil over in this case) is promoting unhealthy gameplay then it should be looked at

    This applies to killer perks too, insidious for example - it promotes unhealthy gameplay and should've been changed years ago.

  • Sluzzy
    Sluzzy Member Posts: 3,130

    You can notice when killer mains never play survivor. The new Dead Man's Switch, and Scourage Hooks is so broken, way more than Boil Over. One player, only one player can equip these and have a massive unbeatable advantage over a team of four.

    Yes, killers have had nothing buff buffs since 2019 and earlier while survivors have had nerfs in several ways.

  • NinthPixel
    NinthPixel Member Posts: 60

    Keep or buff Boil Over with the addition that using it removes the killer's stun when said survivor jumps off their back. Problem solved.

    I'll happily let you Boil Over bounce so I can pop your tea bagging carcass in the back of the head again.

  • Brokenbones
    Brokenbones Member Posts: 5,169

    Yeah It's not like survivors have had an entirely new mechanic added to the game that completely favours them in basically every way. A mechanic killers just have to bite down and deal with.

    I'm not even saying that to be snarky, Boons have virtually NO downsides in practice. Zero.

    And they would've been even stronger than the current version if changes weren't made and isn't that a scary thought

  • StarLost
    StarLost Member Posts: 8,077

    This has become Whataboutism: The Thread.

    Tinkerer is strong, but has counterplay. Use your eyes and get ready to hoof it at 70%.

    Boil Over isn't strong, but if it's being abused - it has no counterplay. I tested Iron Grasp+Agitation versus a mate of mine in the RPD library. You are still unhookable if you go to the right spot. A 'closer hook' offering might be the trick, but two crap perks and an ultra rare offering should not be required to prevent griefing with this perk.

  • Sluzzy
    Sluzzy Member Posts: 3,130

    That is not fair counterplay though. What if a Leatherface politely walks up in a jungle gym where I have no LOS and instantly downs me with no warning? Not all gens are out in the open so you can see the killer everywhere.

    Now I will agree about RDP, but that is really a map issue instead of perk. There shouldn't be a specific location that is always safe. All they need to do is make hooks randomized where it will sometimes spawn one in the library and sometimes not. To the contrary, how often do you wiggle free in other areas?

  • StarLost
    StarLost Member Posts: 8,077

    You'll hear him coming, Leatherface has fat feet and the saw gives a distinctive noise too. If you suspect Tinkerer, the counterplay is using your other prompts (audio, visual) when the gen reaches 70%. Inside a jungle gym is absolutely ideal, as if you just vault you stop him completely.

    A nice trick to counter Tink is to immediately leave any gen once you've taken it to 70%, wait a few seconds then get back on it. If the killer comes over, he'll waste a ton of time.

    RPD, Eyrie and IWOM all have those spots, and other maps have spots that are pretty close.

    It's easy to say 'oh, just fix the maps' - but this is something that is clearly very difficult for BHVR to do. It took them literally years to fix the spots where you couldn't pick survivors up.

    It's easier just to remove that aspect of the perk and rework it in another way. Wriggling free should be a rare event caused by killer counterplay or a concerted team effort, because it's insanely punishing for the killer - and causes them to lose points. It's never nice to be punished for something out of your control.

  • Irisora
    Irisora Member Posts: 1,442

    The problem is always the same.. SWF that try to exploit everything. Boil over is really "meh" as a soloQ but againts toxic SWF it can be annoying and a nightmare.

  • ThanksForDaily
    ThanksForDaily Member Posts: 1,305
    edited January 2022

    I have to agree with sluzzy.

    Remember the killer about ruin/undying/noed

    "Oh, you have so many perks to counter them 4head, easy. Small game, counterforce, detectives hunch etc"

    Now use IG, Agi to counter boil over.

    But you won't, you can't get rid your 4 slowdown stacking gen regression perks and you want a boil over nerf.

    Killer main hypocrisy.

  • ThanksForDaily
    ThanksForDaily Member Posts: 1,305

    "Lolwut"

    I don't even tested the perk. Im talking about the hypocrisy.

    Hexes are hexes. Doesn't change anything because undying got nerf, wdym,"lolwut"

    Use for once another perk instead of your usual 4 gen regression.

  • Nicholas
    Nicholas Member Posts: 1,952

    I tried it a few times but it's situational, and for it to be more effective you need to allocate additional perks. Oftentimes there's a hook right around the corner. It's the slow down meta so what have I done? Certainly not complain on the forums about it. I now equip Rookie Spirit, Blast Mine and Repressed Alliance. I've been having so much fun with this build by protecting generators. Do I always escape? No, but it's been fun to counter all the slowdown and regression perks in play. This one particular killer got so afraid of blast mine that he stopped kicking lol As killer I've been having a blast with Mad Grit, Iron Grasp and Agitation.

  • Nicholas
    Nicholas Member Posts: 1,952

    The same applies to hex perks, Ruin and especially Devour can devastate a trial and bring it to a swift conclusion. And then gg if they also have Undying. So survivors too can waste a lot of time looking for hex totems that provide tremendous value and fundamentally change mechanics. I've had it happen to me personally many times, no one can find the totems and the match comes to an end. However, no one wants to talk about those moments, it's always the moments where someone brings a boon totem that the killer can never find and that's supposed to be the end of the world.

  • Slaughterhouse3
    Slaughterhouse3 Member Posts: 902

    I swear the only thing I ever agreed with you on is Blight being OP. :/

  • Nicholas
    Nicholas Member Posts: 1,952

    That's not what whataboutery is. I illustrated that the Survivor also experiences those pain points with an example. I never called you a hypocrite or said you were wrong. You missed that important distinction in your zeal to use the go-to term on these forums.

    I also never said anything about Boil Over in the post you quote, so I am confused.

    Slugging isn't fun, but it is rampant even before Boil Over, so I see little difference there. Your other points are subjective, yet you present your opinion as to if it were authoritative. The counter to a map offering is to use the Sacrificial Ward or cancel the match. You have to decide what to do.

  • StarLost
    StarLost Member Posts: 8,077

    Yes, it is. It's a perfect example of whataboutism.

    You are using an irrelevant point as a red herring, to sidetrack the conversation into another concern. This is not a thread about hexes. This is a thread about Boil Over.

    We aren't talking about hexes here. Hexes aren't even remotely analogous. I explained why. We are talking about Boil Over being the keys to the Trollmobile.

    Slugging was rampant - and people hated it. I personally hate slugging as a killer, unless I'm trying to avoid killing someone.

    Why do you want more slugging?

  • DoritoHead
    DoritoHead Member Posts: 3,546

    Ignoring all the other stuff because I'd just be repeating what everyone else is saying, Sluzzy not abusing Boil Over is the hero we need

  • Nicholas
    Nicholas Member Posts: 1,952

    No, it isn't; you're still missing the point. YOU mentioned Boons, so I replied to your post about Boons and how that same complaint applies to Survivors. You're going off-topic and trying to sidetrack the thread. This topic isn't about Boons or Hexes, so focus on Boil Over.

  • neb
    neb Member Posts: 790

    You're right, I should just dumb down things in order to make it look good for my narrative. Good idea!

  • StarLost
    StarLost Member Posts: 8,077

    I was responding to someone else who brought up hexes, and someone else who brought up boons - in literally the same way I'm responding to you.

    Sigh.

  • ThiccBudhha
    ThiccBudhha Member Posts: 6,987

    Yes, they are hypocritical, but not for the reason you believe. I am glad that I didn't accidentally agree with Sluzzy. I told myself if the day game when I genuinely agreed with him, I would quit DBD. And that day is not today, dodged a bullet.

  • Nicholas
    Nicholas Member Posts: 1,952
    edited January 2022

    I realize that, but that doesn't insulate your post from replies. Going back to BO to avoid a hijack.


  • StarLost
    StarLost Member Posts: 8,077

    It's always nice when the hijacker returns the car, but good. Let's talk about BO.

  • Nicholas
    Nicholas Member Posts: 1,952

    Deflect, but that's classic coming from the person with the most OT and lengthy replies in this thread.

  • ThiccBudhha
    ThiccBudhha Member Posts: 6,987
  • FrenziedRoach
    FrenziedRoach Member Posts: 2,600

    Eh... you don't like Boil Over - then start running Iron Grip and quit complaining.

  • StarLost
    StarLost Member Posts: 8,077

    I tried this with a mate yesterday.

    Running Agitation+Iron Will.

    RPD library = still completely unhookable.

  • StarLost
    StarLost Member Posts: 8,077

    Responding to other people going OT is not going OT. But again - shoot.

    Tell me why Boil Over is fine.

  • GoshJosh
    GoshJosh Member Posts: 4,992

    It’s not fun for survivors, but it is a valid strategy. Just need to make an option to accelerate the timer if all survivors are already hooked, dead, or in the dying state. So they aren’t just left to bleed out as a BM.

  • Devil_hit11
    Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 8,824

    boil over is very specific SWF build I think. so basically strategy is to run dead hard+boil over+break out+coh. killer if he hits anyone, the killer will physically be unable to hook survivor from boil over+break out. if you bring toolbox with any type of speed to sabotage, you can literally stand on a hook, force killer to hit you and than sabotage in their face and dead hard right after. All hits that you take from bodyblock can now be healed through circle of healing.

    hypothetically a killer can get zero hooks because he physically cannot do objective unlike blight that merely slows objective down.

    If wiggling off is rare event, than why would anyone use boil over? entire point of the perk is to wiggle off which also applies to sabotage. The exact reason why nobody uses boil over in past is because boil over did nothing and was realistically worthless.

    bare in mind, I am not saying that having infinity decisive strikes from wiggling off is exactly fair game. Just my guess to why sluzzy might be defending it.

  • toxik_survivor
    toxik_survivor Member Posts: 1,184

    This is actully the most I insightful post I've seen. I completely agree

  • RainehDaze
    RainehDaze Member Posts: 2,573

    There's the problem: wiggling is (or should be) a rare event, so why use a perk that makes it easier?

    If it makes it reliable, then there's a problem because unavoidable chase resets with no counterplay except maybe to have already given up half your perk slots and be playing at a big disadvantage. If it doesn't make it reliable, then nobody is going to use it.

    What Boil Over does is something that can't really be buffed much unless it's made obligatory and the number of hooks needed is kneecapped. Its just not doing something good.

  • SammehStormborn
    SammehStormborn Member Posts: 147

    That’s the thing though - it says high place, but you can drop an inch off the ground and it grants 25% progress. You have to be SO careful on your mapping to a hook and you’re bashed about so much chances are you’ll hit that little tiny ledge when you’re at top of basement or wherever.

    I’m guessing you don’t play much killer to know how little a distance boil over needs to count as a “drop”.