Facecamping is still unfun despite being 'a valid strategy'
as the title says, I know bhvr has said 'camping is a valid strategy' and their defenders will come out of the woodwork with 'but it lets everyone else do gens!' but that misses the entire point of the game.
We dont play for 'free gens' its infuriating when you are the one being camped, and when you arent the one being camped its boring, since there is no tension AND you feel bad for the other survivor since there is nothing you can do, if you go after them and get caught YOU become the one face camped.
I know taking fun into account is bad game design, but when something has been complained for the entire duration of the game's lifespan, something has to be done.
Just to cut it off at the pass, saying that 'X perk can stop that!' doesnt even come into it, because thats the kind of talk that gets into situations where you have a REQUIRED perk to actually be competitive, and that is toxic to a game. Also in a game where you have random killers and random players, you can not meta for a specific play style. This isn't Magic the Gathering where you can sideboard into anti camping/slugging tech in your best of 3 set. You gotta deal with what you have and what they have.
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Not only it's unfun, it skews their statistics too. it inflate kill rate of killers and as a result killers looks much stronger than what they actually are.
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Then propose a solution BHVR hasn’t already tested, which they’ve tested numerous ones and scrapped because they were all horribly abusable. There is nothing wrong with camping or proxy camping or even facecamping when done for strategic value. Punishing exclusively reckless facecamping without punishing the other 3 in any exploitable way is enormously difficult.
Paused/stopped hook timers, increased action speed, basekit Kindred, self unhook, basekit Endurance, relocating the hook, etc were all tested and scrapped for being horribly abusable, or otherwise rejected because devs do not want to go that direction.
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That's the problem with this game, devs balance around the statistics, not fun factor and because: if something isn't broken, then don't fix it, they won't be changing such things as camping/tunneling viability anytime soon.
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To SuzKR demanding me fix a problem the game devs couldnt. Its actually quite easy, because its already in the game. Increase the blood point punishment for killers that stay within the hook's range.
Scale it based upon the duration spend within an area and the distance from the hook. If a killer stays in a M1 range of the hook for the ENTIRE duration of a 2 hook phase sacrifice, then they lose enough bloodpoints to counteract what they get for sacrificing them.
Done and done. If survivors are gonna rush up and try and unhook, let them. Chase one of them aroudn and let them unhook the first person. The game isn't designed to be a 'one hook and dead' game anyhow.
If they arent good enough to get kills without doing this, they drop down to the low ranked matches and play with other poorly skilled players.
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That isn't going to stop people from recklessly camping, they don't care about bloodpoints in the first place.
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Considering that is what determins rank, then losing the BP and the points, causes them to derank, which again... puts them in the low tiers with new players and bad players. It keeps them out of circulation.
Also this is a wonderful thing on this forums. Instead of posing options on how to fix things, you find people like SuzuKR here, who come into a thread and just play a 'corrupt a wish' where you take what the person said and just make excuses as to why it wont ever work.
You provide nothing constructive to the conversation and only manage to shut down conversation.
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Rank doesn't exist. Grades do. And they exist solely for reset BP rewards. They literally do not affect matchmaking. If people don't have a need for BP (eg, they have everything they want already) or they just don't care for BP in general, this does literally nothing to them. I don't know why you feel the need to take out your upset emotions on me. You should understand what you're talking about before proposing solutions that are literally irrelevant because things don't work the way you think they do. MMR is what determines matchmaking, not grades. Ranks don't exist.
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Just FYI the devs confirmed in their last dev chat that they are actively still working on something to reduce literal face camping. Basically while it's not cheating or unsportsmanlike it's simply a dull sort of experience for both the killer doing the face camping and the survivor on the hook so they do want to find a way to make it something that happens less. The issue for them so far has been the things they've tried internally either weren't effective or created its own serious problems.
They haven't given any details but did say in the January chat that they have an internal prototype they're testing that looked promising but is still in early development. So it could be anything, who knows? 🤷♂️
One interesting suggestion I've heard was to leverage the way Pyramid Head's Cages work for hooks. So when you hook someone the hooks is dragged into the ground by the Entity and reappears elsewhere. It sounds cool thematically and would certainly reduce facecamping but the details on it are where it seems like it would be a little sketchy. For instance, what happens with basement hooks? Is the basement just totally worthless in this system? Also this would take away a lot of killer agency over where precisely they want a survivor to be hooked to, for instance, force the survivors to run a long distance to get a rescue. On the flip side this system could have some neat interactions with Scourge Hooks since it would effectively shuffle the Scourge Hook around to a new location every time it's used which might be kind of fun. So the idea might have some potential but definitely requires polishing to be good.
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No. Because then Survivors can run Killers around the hook, and the Killers lose BP.
Or they can do the same 'Stand at a distance' and force the Killer to either lose BP or lose the hook.
When are people going to realize punishments are abuseable bullshit that should never be in the game?
Oh, right; that's what these idea-makers WANT; some bullshit they can abuse at-will to punish Killers for hurting their feelings.
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I think that situation would stop happening if they stopped nerfing assassins, currently being a killer is disgusting since they are always nerfing assassins to the point that there is even a shortage since when I want to play as a survivor I always have to wait a long time to find a game but when I play assassin it's immediate, facecamping is bad and that's why I don't do it, but let's be honest there are people who deserve it since only in the whole game are they trolling the assassin and he has played many times since in this game there is no equality and you will never play with people of your level if not more advanced people
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I really dont get the argument of 'survivors will just run around the hooks and swarm the killer' like... let them. That means they arent doing gems. Hook someone, let the survivors do what they will with them. Just because they unhook doesnt reduce the amount of progress toward a sacrifice.
Like yeah, as a killer it can be frustrating to get swarmed by survivors in a swf but a hook is a hook. Hook them and walk away, thats all there is to it.
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Because all it takes is ONE Survivor to 'swarm the hook' to activate the bullshit punishments Survivors invent. While 2 Survivors pound gens.
This is not theory, either; this is, literally, what happened every time punishments were tried. Survivors abused the hell out of them for personal gain.
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That's literally stupid. Why would I leave and give them a free unhook?
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I'd agree if survivors didn't have like four or five different perks that invalidate a killer's pressure. Dead Hard for a 3rd health state, Borrowed Time for a 4th, Unbreakable for a 5th, Decisive Strike for a 6th, Dead Hard again for a 7th, and Iridescent Syringe for an 8th.
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No, it's actually lots of fun when done correctly. Brings all the survivors over for a fight at the hook. That's lots of fun.
If you succeed, you end up with a pile of survivors, if you fail, you give them the awesome feeling of overcoming an evil killer. If you don't like that strategy, hit the gens and punish it.
Now jump out there and abuse Boil Over like every other survivor. Ruining a killer's game is fun, right?
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Remember: Killers are at fault for Survivor's fun, and must not try to win in any way considered 'unfun' by even ONE Survivor player! Be sure to brush up on your Survivor Rulebook For Killers 456876th Edition!
(All proceeds of buying a Survivor's Rulebook go directly to Survivors needing to finish their 4 META perks so they can t-bag and clicky-clilcky out the exit gates in their 4-man SWFs!)
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As like unfun and valido is gen rush. Nerf that (corrupt or deadlock basekit like borrow time to compensate) and killer will can play the game chasing everybody without need to boring for both camp you to beg the kill cause gens fly after few minutes.
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Hey yall, ya wanna know something? Just because genrushing is terrible, or the garbage that is deadhard+borrowed time+Decisive strike, doesnt mean we should ignore how bad face camping is either. They are ALL problems and all should be worked at and fixed.
Going 'why should we fix X when Y and Z are a problem' is how NOTHING gets #########' fixed
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Face Camping is a way to create pressure on a group of survivors on a killer that doesn't have strong map pressure base kit. Also once the game goes into end-game the killer's got no reason not to camp things out.
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I am not speaking of endgame camping. I am speaking face camping throughout the match, and you know that.
What is your goal with making this bad faith argument?
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Because sometimes camping during the middle of a match is ALSO a valid strategy, and no mechanic in existence could differentiate between 'toxic camper' and 'needed to apply pressure', and 99% of all 'face-camping' threads boil down too 'I want easy unhooks, make the game give them to me. Me losing is toxic.'
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I'm sorry to tell you, standing next to the hook and staring at the survivor, giving other survivors literally 0 chance to actually unhook even if they try outside of swf bullshit, is toxic. But continue with your bad faith arguments, this forum is full of them
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is not.
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Oh yes; me trying to get kills and 'not letting Survivors unhook' is toxic? How entitled are you to think the Killer HAS to allow unhooks or he's toxic? 😂
This just in: Killers HAVE to allow unhooks or they're toxic! Survivors demand Killers stop trying to win! Killers winning is now toxic!
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Let me translate your statement. "I dont think facecamping is toxic, so im going to hide that by insulting others"
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