DMS is Broken on Artist
Artist has great pressure on generators with DMS, she is almost unstoppable. She has pressure even in chase. She was rare before but not anymore. I don't know i faced with how many Artists with this PR + DMS combo at this week.
This feels like Pre-Nerf Freddy. Ruin + Pre-Nerf Undying + Tinkerer with slow-down add-ons. And put snares around loops and make survivor out and take hits.
Now Artist has same issue. Strong gen pressure and strong anti-loop. Before DMS's buff, only counter of her was Shift + W. So she was losing generators if she would run with you. But now even in chases she can force to block generators.
I can not see any counter. Please tell me how i will counter her while she is blocking generators with DMS and regression with PR.
Comments
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dont let go of the gen
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Give her free snipe hits, good advice!
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And get hit? Nice
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then let go before dms activates and wait for the crows if she keeps doing it. then do the gen. if she hits you with a crow just continue working on it since she is probably on the other side of the map. if she tries to hit you again you have to let go but by that point 30 sec are probably already over
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it's pretty busted if she uses green addon that hides flight auras, other than that its fully counterable, you just have to pay attention...
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whats dms?
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She has 45 seconds. She can spam crows. PR is shows her which gen is most repaired. And plus she can use info perks. She knows where to send the crows. And plus one survivor on hook, so one of the survivors needs to go save. And 2 survivor on generator on this case. And if she chase one of them, this mean only one survivor on generator and she can force to block it. And also when some generators blocking, she has less generators to check with crows.
So even you wait for dms activates, she still can send crows and force you leave or take snipe hit. This is broken. Because DMS has good time, 45 seconds.
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dead man's switch. after hooking a survivor, for 45 seconds, if any survivor lets go of a gen that gen gets blocked for the duration
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Death Man Switch
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Not really, but everyone has an opinion
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I do not have an opinion on this, actually. I care so little about Artist.
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You are free to try.
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Most progress is irrelevant since PR already blocked it. Chances are high she is firing 3 crows at 3 gens to try and block the most she can.....meaning there is a decent gap before she can fire again. Stay on gen, get crows, and if she gets another shot off dodge it. At most your gen is block for 10 or so secs.
My solo q beat the only 2 artist with dms we seen. Maybe they sucked.....either way it means its not unstoppable if they are 0 for 2 against solos in my games.
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Yeah I dont go off streamer views thanks I use my own opinion. Plus he throws out value and OP like skittles lol.
It's a shame you dont have your own opinion on the matter but the perk isnt that strong even on her, you can avoid its activation, it cant be refreshed during its use and you're a 4v1.
Maybe I'm biased because I play survivor at a high level but I really dont think its op or needs a change
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Shes not my favourite to play or verse either, sadly the ones I find more fun get nerfed or are just weak in general :( hardly see any of the roster:(
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The counter is pretty easy
You stop repairing the gen before the hook, wait for her to shoot her 3 crows (extending her cooldown)
Once they went on the gen and nothing got spotted chances are low that she rechecks it, if she does then most of the cool down of dms is already gone (and she wont be able to hit you again close to that)
Beside her crows cant hit the 4 spots of every gen depending on the gen and pmacements
Oh and if she hits you and iinjures you, you probably got a CoH nearby to healback before shes around
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I was curious when the first complaints about DMS would come... Yeah, it is strong on Artist (and Doc btw), but it's not op imo. Don't forget that there are also a lot of maps with gens at different heights, which also makes it difficult for the artist to control them. But don't worry, if too many people use it, it will be nerfed again anyway, Im pretty sure about.
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It's funky but not oppressive. Before she hooks a Survivor, get off the gen and stay off of it until she fired her 3 crows. Once she did, you're free to continue doing the gen
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Release the gen BEFORE the hook and stay away for a few seconds while she shoots the crows. If PR triggers it will regress for a few seconds, but not block, If it doesn't it means another gen has more progress or she didn't use a Scourge Hook either way, your gen is not losing progress.
If she starts heading towards you, you can tap to gen to intentionally block it and prevent regression or leave it so that she needs to kick it and another teammate can work on it.
If you're using Repressed Alliance and you know your gen is very close to completion, you can intentionally block it immediately before the hook happens. That way PR procs in another gen, your teammates can see the aura of your gen and it stays blocked for less time.
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Hide your Aura so she does not know where you are repairing.
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I don’t know if it’s overpowered on Artist or not, it’s certainly a good perk for her though no doubt!
Hypothetically if the data backs up the Artist plus DMS combo being too powerful the simplest fix is probably to put a range limit on how far away crows can do damage. So maybe crows can only do damage out to 30 meters, beyond that they stick and give an aura but can’t damage people. It still gives useful info on a hit but super long range snipes are impossible which negates that “broken” ability to force survivors who are across the map off a gen without actually heading closer to them.
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So basically nerf artist? And nerf the most fun part about her?
Doesnt seem like a good change to me, she has an audio cue afterall and has cool downs.
Many people have suggested the easy counters to it
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It's worse one blight or nurse. Even then it's really not that oppressive, it really has some pretty easy counterplay
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Yes, if for the sake of argument Artist is actually broken in combination with Dead Man’s Switch then nerf Artist slightly. And I do mean slightly, those long range snipes are far from being the best part of her kit, or even in my opinion the “most fun” part.
And people have suggested counters but how effective they actually are is up in the air (so to speak). For example, the counter of getting off a gen, waiting for the crow, then getting back on can be countered by just staggering her birds a few seconds. And keep in mind, just because something is possible to mitigate somewhat doesn’t necessarily mean the thing in question isn’t overpowered. (Looking at you, Dead Hard!)
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My opinion is not coming from OhTofu. I sent videos for gave you example, that's all. It is so rude to call me i have not my own opinion. Please discuss with respectful.
Except Undying, which killer perk nerfed last time? Survivors are complaining about NOED for years and NOED is still here. And please don't make this they vs us. I am killer main and i am complaining about this perk. Because it is so strong. And on my case, Artist needs nerf. Not perk.
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Eh.
It's strong, no doubt - but I'd hesitate to call it broken.
What you have to keep in mind about DMS is the 'dam effect'. DMS is great at stalling gens...until it isn't, because gens can't regress. So what's happening is that you are storing progression.
Eventually, the dam breaks, and gens start popping within seconds of each other.
A few other tricks:
- When she's about to hook, release the gen (you should be doing this anyway, as Artists like Pain Resonance). Wait for the birds. Then go back to the gen and you'll confuse her.
- Artists will rarely fire a bird at the same gen twice.
- If you get birded, work on the gen a bit more if she fired a volley of 3. Then let go and move to the next one. You can clearly see birds coming, so they are ultra easy to juke.
Killer perks generally don't get nerfed because a nerf to strong perks usually ends up being a huge nerf to weak killers.
Instead, killers get nerfed - especially their addons - while buffing weaker perks. The idea is to close the gap between strong and weak killers, and nerfing strong killer perks would probably have the opposite effect. Survivors are 100% perks, and thus perks are what get nerfed. Survivors don't have a 'kit'.
Artist absolutely doesn't need a nerf. Her numbers looked...fine.
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It wasnt rude. I said I dont agree but everyone has their own opinions, you then proceed to link streamer videos. If you have your own opinion type it and say it, linking a streamer is their opinion and you clearly follow said streamer to see his videos.
Iv just never had an issue with it personally, and I hate to see killers nerfed because of a perk, I think it's good some perks are better on other killers. It's nice to see different perks used tbh.
I just dont wanna see an decent killer turn into garbage like some of the others.
But the ranged attacks is what I like most as both sides, sticking it in a pallet doesnt give me "fun" moments
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I have no problem with some killers getting more use out of some perks than others. (I love Distressing on Doctor, I would probably never use it on anybody else though.)
Also taking away the extreme range damage snipe of Artist would hardly make her “garbage”. Her main strengths are long range detections, auras during chases and zoning away from vaults. The ultra long range damage is just a gimmick really, ok if it happens but the ability is better used for info at that range than trying to snipe. And she was already a good killer even before the Dead Man’s Switch buff, you could remove that perk entirely and she’s still be a good killer.
As far as fun goes, that’s obviously just personal preference kind of outside the question of whether or not the combo needs tuning for balance purposes.
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Again. I just gave you example videos which supports my opinion. My opinion is not coming from this videos or this streamer. They are material to supporting my opinion.
And if you are thinking it was not rude, we are done here.
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At the point where we are discussing people trying to out-counter the other, surely the perk is no longer in question? No counter is meant to be 100% there should be options on both sides, and there are.
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"Except Undying, which killer perk nerfed last time?"
This is whataboutism, and immaterial to the discussion at hand, However I will say if we're just counting the number of "nerfs" and trying to determine if the devs favor one side or the other, it's not going to work.
"Survivors are complaining about NOED for years and NOED is still here."
As a matter of fact noed has been changed a few times, but possibly the reason it hasn't been lately is complaints don't mean anything on their own. Sure we get the same 3 people on the forum making the same threads over and over, but that doesn't mean the perk is busted. At this point I'd think it far more likely that the complaints have been seen, the numbers on noed ran, and the truth (that it really doesn't effect kill rates or balance in any significant way) has made it so they don't feel the need for further changes just to appease a few commenters.
"And please don't make this they vs us. I am killer main and i am complaining about this perk."
You're complaining that you dislike facing artist with the perk. You can call yourself whatever kind of "main" you want, but this comes down to your survivor experience.
"Because it is so strong. And on my case, Artist needs nerf. Not perk."
Except as has been pointed out Numerous times (including on the three previous threads you've made on this topic since the changes were first proposed) the counterplay is easy, effective, and can be implemented without needing any special perks. That's not OP. It's a skill issue.
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Just because a partial counter exists doesn’t mean something isn’t potentially overpowered. You can try and bluff people onto using Dead Hard but that perk is by far the best and most popular exhaustion perk in the game to the point of probably needing a nerf. Clown’s Pinkie Finger add-on needed the nerf it got even though in principle a survivor can dodge the bottles. Same with the old Huntress Iri Head and the old Object of Obsession. Things can be overpowered without being literally unbeatable.
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Once again a streamer isnt a fact. I said everyone has opinions, I also stated he uses the terms OP and value far too much.
Lovely guy, but just another persons opinion which we are all allowed. If you got so offended by that, which isnt even an insult I fear for your online health. Dont get so upset by everything, nothing was meant as an attack.
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But in this case it's not a partial anything. If you let go of the gen before the hook, wait out the crow and go back, the gen is not blocked 100% of the time. Yes the artist can delay the crows to try and bait you back on early, but at that point it is their own time they are wasting. (And for killer, wasted time is a much bigger issue)
the counter is easy for any skill level, and even better, doesn't require an item, add-on or perk to counter. It's almost the same counter you should already be employing against BBQ. (And in fact, if you just treated every artist you see like they have bbq, you'll never get hit by DMS)
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What are you talking about lol? Did you read the comment i answered? He said DMS is going to nerf. And i asked which killer perk nerfed in row. This is not whataboutism. And no, DMS is not going to nerf.
And i asked what is counter.
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Let go of the gen before the hook, wait for the bird. Get back on the gen.
It's literally that easy. You've made multiple threads on this topic, where that counter has been stated on each one, at what point are you going to stop?
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It is not that easy. We are talking about DMS but we never talked which perks she has. She can use some info perks and then she can learn which generators are repairing. She can go to one of them. And then she can scare others with crows.
Wait and back gen is not 100% counter. Because you don't know when she will send crows. Yeah you will hear crows but if you are already on gen, you will eat this crows or you will leave generator to block. Or you will wait and waste time while waiting crows. Lose or lose for survivors.
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Not so broken on artist. But DEF broken on doctor 😕🤣
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Only on smaller maps - but yes, it shouldn't interact with interruptions. That's the one change I'd make.
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Yeah, don't dodge crows. And eat hit with next crows. Pretty balanced my dude.
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plenty of counters offered, but the complaining continues.
DMS doesn't even regress gens, and synergizes poorly with most perks that do. Whole lotta LET ME WIN energy in here.
If DMS blocks a gen, work on another one. Stagger multiple instead of just sitting on one AFKing while holding space.
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So now you are moving the goalposts, but I'll go with it. If she's using an information perk and going to the gen, then she's not using crows to block them all, which has been your original complaint. Now you are just pointing out literally how the perk works on every killer (I.e. if the killer goes to the gen and scares the survivor off, it blocks the gen, as it should at that point).
Also it's interesting that you've admitted here that you only really consider something a counter if it always works no matter what the other side does. That's not how anything in this game works.
It's a 45 second window where the perk is active, and unless they are facecamping, the artist is going to be trying to find the next survivor as soon as they can. They aren't going to wait all that long, and you can tell (by terror radius, survivor icons, and other audio/visual cues) when she's moving on.
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And i said, killer is not only using 2 perks. She can learn which generators are repairing with information perks.
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As a doc main, I gotta admit, even on the larger maps it can be ridiculously easy to hold a 3 gen with DMS and static blast, especially with a TR increase build
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Too bad a single survivor with a CoH boon outside of that 3gen completely nullifies it since you're not an instadown killer :(
Cool, then start running and gain huge distance and good positioning before she arrives. Using DMS practically nullifies Pop so you know she won't have that (or if she does, she wont be able to afford even a few seconds of chase if she wants to use it)
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It will definitely help them, but CoH is its own issue I don't have time to go into today, lol
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Leave gen before hook
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It would be a huge nerf, and she doesn't need any nerfs. Her numbers are fine.
Right now, if you bird someone at range and they just stay on the gen, you can punish them and they can attempt to juke your punish. That's good - strong play, strong counterplay.
If she couldn't damage at range, it removes this entire element from her game.
DMS is certainly strong - but again, people seem to think that blocking is the same as regression. What actually happens to me against smart teams is that I've got 6 hooks at 5 gens, then suddenly I've got 7 hooks at 1 gen because all the damned things are 99%'d.
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That’s not a “100% counter” because the artist can just send a new crow 10 seconds later and still block the gen for 35 seconds if you get back off it.
Also the counter for BBQ has nothing to do with not being on a gen so I’m not sure why you brought that up?
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I didn’t say “remove her ability to damage at range”, I said they could remove her ability to damage at “extreme range”. Being able to do damage from say 30 meters out or less is still possible there.
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