Please nerf Tricksters knife count.
Tricksters power is only problematic because of how many knives he has. As it currently is there is no realistic way to survive a chase with him. He has to hit you like 6 times for an injure I think? And he has 44 knives. So you have to dodge at least 33 rapid fire projectile blades. Surviving against Trickster is literally just hoping you can make a high wall loop with decent enough length to react to mind games. Pallets are a 50/50 except if he respects he hits you with 4 or 5 knives and if he doesn't he can just keep walking anyways and kill you anyways.
"NOOOOOOOO!!!! YOU CANT NERF TRICKSTER HES ALREADY WEAK JUST LEARN TO PLAY THE KILLER YOU ENTITLED SURVIVOR MAIN!!!!!!!!!" No I don't need to make your check list of assumptions to criticize things.
Just because he's bad doesn't justify his ridiculous power in chase. No, it isn't an instant injure but it's also not hard at all to build up the laceration meter. Trickster cheeses almost every chase with very minimal effort. He's not a blight or a nurse but playing against him feels like breaking a wall with your head all the same.
I would nerf it to like 28 knives. It leaves potential for him to get multiple downs but also is less forgiving for missing over half of your ammo.
Comments
-
Trickster doesn't need a nerf
31 -
What about no?
9 -
Skill issue, Trickster is only useful on loops with low walls. Git gud and use loops with high walls
16 -
Trickster needs a full on rework, imo.
2 -
He isn't even ridiculous thanks to being 4.4, just hold shift+w and dodge the knife.
3 -
As well as animation locks, any linear/straight path loop, open windows, any sort of hole that he can throw a knife through, if he has his ricochet add-ons cover basically means nothing...
I could go on.
You vastly underestimate how strong he can be. High wall loops alone don't just hard counter him and are complete rng. You still have a few seconds where you're left in the open when looping at a jungle gym or such. Low walls are only "good" because you literally can't do anything against him on those.
The "skill issue" is more of a lack of being able to legitimately do anything.
1 -
4.4 is slow but it's not terribly slower than normal movement speed. A 4.4 killer can still catch up to you in relatively the same amount of time as a 4.6. As well as the fact that running in a straight line will kill you in seconds and dodging left to right makes you lose a pretty good amount of distance.
1 -
NOOOOOOOO!!!! YOU CANT NERF TRICKSTER HES ALREADY WEAK JUST LEARN TO PLAY THE KILLER YOU ENTITLED SURVIVOR MAIN!!!!!!!!!
7 -
If you've ever played Trickster you would know that 44 knives is a lot less than it seems.
11 -
do bones
6 -
You just want them to be an easier target for your knives. Nice try, Bush.
2 -
Agreed. I would go even further and nerf his knife count to 12. All of the GOOD trickster players would barely feel this miniscule nerf but all of the trash tricksters would finally stop crutching on such an op and unfair killer
2 -
I'll take the bait just to showcase how delusional survivor mains are. Let's examine a game from tru3ta1ent youtube vods on trickster:
Here are some timestamps:
0-41 second - 8 knifes chase 1
2:07-2:41 second - 3 knife chase 2,3
3:53-4:28 - Chase 4 - 0 knifes, ran out of knifes(Lisa)
5:08 - Extended chase 16 knifes left
5:22, 5:54 - 8 knife left chase 5,6
6:57-7:12 - 21 knifes left chase 7
8:40-9:02 - 2 knife left chase 8
10:22 - camp hook 22 knifes chase 9
10:40- 10:53 - 8 knifes chase 10-11
11:31-11:45 - 18 knifes chase 12
Almost all chases, the trickster ended with less than 8 knifes.
Only 3 chases out of 12 did trickster end with double digits on knife count. On one occasion, Tru3 ran out of knifes and chase was extended by 32 seconds.
with your proposed change, trickster would run out of knives 8/12 of chases with halve ammo.
Based off this relatively close game, I do not think that trickster needs less ammo. If anything, he barely has enough ammo to get 1 down per reload. If your not 7000 hour dbd killer player like tru3, you might have some problems doing well with trickster at high-level. Its why trickster kill-rate is very low among "casual" players.
The game was suppose end on 2 kill, 2 escapes however due to survivor's altruism & killer's ability to facecamp hook's, the result was 3 kill, 1 escape.
3 -
He is TERRIBLY slow with context of windows and palettes.
0 -
That never stopped Behavior from butchering Slinger.
9 -
Git gud
0 -
His knife count was already nerfed. You are welcome.
0 -
This is also making the assumption that a player can hit most of their knifes, and anyone who's ever played trickster knows how impossibly lucky you have to get to hit all of your blades consecutively. If anything he could use a buff, going back to the knife count he had in the PTB. Survivors who know what they're doing won't let you get an opening for you to get your knifes in either, at which point you're just a miserable 4.4 m/s killer who slows down even further when using his blades, necessitating add-ons to compensate.
0 -
Trickster didn't need that knife count nerf on his power and his add-ons in the first place. He has to hit you 14 times just to down you, and he'll miss plenty. Because of the knife count nerf from way back when, he has to reload like after every chase, which cripples him.
0 -
I'm thinking of two letters. The first one is 'N' and the second one is 'O'. I believe they form a word. A word that is the answer to OP's idea. I believe that word is 'No'.
There we go. There's your answer; no.
0 -
I do agree in regards to needing to be accurate with blades to be successful. Personally like @ThatOneDemoPlayer says, high-walls are way too effective against trickster and If I was to suggest change on him, I'd increase his movement in throwing mode to 105% so that it is harder to LOS his power. It is just too easy in current iteration to do so. It is too much of hard counter.
I'd say his ammo count is about right because its just enough ammo to get downs but enough that little bit of survivor outplay yields winning chases/extending chases . There is outplaying the killer and than there is hard countering a killer in which killer has no counter-play to survivor's gameplay.
it is really demoralizing because if survivor hug corner walls very well, you only get to shoot like 2-3 knifes and than your back in LOS problem. Its also what makes his main event so garbage because he is so slow in throwing mode that you can physically loop non-pallet rock and he physically can't do anything about it other than cancel main event or just let entire main event expire.
so yeah, one thing i'd say he needs buff on is throwing mode movement speed. 96% m/s is just too slow for main event and throwing mode itself.
0 -
Don't need another console targeted nerf.
1 -
Trickster does not need a nerf....
0 -
This is DBD your never suppose to survive chases unless the killer player is a potatoe.
0 -
Tricksters power is USELESS at jungle gyms and high structures. He doesn't need a nerf. Stop running out in the open where he can down you quickly.
0 -
Loop him behind a giant rock... There you go boom. That's the key to success when playing vs. the trickster.
0 -
Trickster is almost OP from 1vs1 POV with mouse on several realms (full of t- and low walls, usually killer-sided maps) and blatantly useless as ######### on other realms (tall walls, often survivor-sided maps). Trickster is the definition of a really badly designed killer / power and should be reworked from scatch.
0 -
Yep. He desperately needs a rework. I despise him. lol
1 -
I hate playing as him on coldwind I never have a good time.
0 -
trickster needs a rework but any kind of nerf to his power in it's current state only gonna make him useless.
0 -
Trickster to me is a feast or famine type of killer
When his power shines it shines really bright and when it doesn't you're stuck chasing survivors at 110% for most of the game
His knife count isn't what makes him shine, it's the fact he has an extremely high rate of fire and chews through survivor health states which in todays meta of COH and such is extremely useful
1 -
Don't vault Windows and Pallets in his face and you won't get pelted by knives and don't get caught in a dead zone and you'll be fine. High wall loops hard counter him, Trickster can't throw knives around them. If he holds knives, he's so slow you can get to the other side of the map.
Use ShiftW, look behind you during chase and put stuff between you and you'll be fine
0 -
While I do agree that a lot of people underestimate how strong he can actually be, I beg to differ on his overall power or need for a nerf. I also think some of these points are just a little off and I'll explain why.
I agree that animation locks are extremely powerful for Trickster. I would say the only animation lock that's going to nearly guarantee a lost health state is a pallet drop/vault. Windows really aren't Trickster's strong point, as most windows will have high walls on either side of it. He probably won't get enough knives in, especially with a fast vault, to get an injured health state.
Holes can be utilized with him, however this is extremely rare cases. It all depends on the survivors movements, add ons, and the map. Sometimes this is even a down point for Trickster though, because some maps, such as Dead Dawg Saloon, have invisible walls in holes/over small structures that block his knives.
High wall loops are detrimental to him. Abuse abuse abuse them. Take him immediately to them if you're looking to give him a hard time. You won't even need a pallet or window to waste a lot of his time with a high wall loop.
But yeah — low loops, long hallways, open areas, are a death trap against him. But that's why it's important to know exactly where to take him to waste his time. Even in jungle gyms — if you're running them correctly he will probably eventually down you, after 3-4 gens get completed.
I think his power right now is the best it's gonna get balance wise. However, his power is rendered completely useless against those high wall loops, jungle gyms, etc. And he can hardly even be an m1 killer in those loops. I'm hoping they'll eventually make him a 115% killer to give him a bit of cushion in those circumstances. I always found it odd that killers with high mobility like Sadako is 115% or someone like Bubba with the ability to instadown multiple people is able to have 132% movement speed but someone with no mobility or instadown potential is 110% without using his long range power that doesn't instantly take a health state.
1 -
So you're saying make him an even worse discount huntress. It's one thing to aim a hatchet that actually has power but it's entirely different to rapidly throw small knives with recoil. Trickster does technically have the fastest down time in the entire game except for insta-downs of course.
That doesn't really mean anything if you can't perfectly hit your shots 24/7 which is impossible. Plus his movement speed makes it practically impossible to catch survivors most of the time. If his knife count is your biggest issue, then you don't really understand what's wrong with Trickster which is pretty much everything. Most Trickster mains would actually say his knife count is too low so...
1 -
I'm saying we need a way to make him not get guaranteed downs just because his power sucks. Instead of making his power interesting, all that's been done is increasing its lethality to compensate for the fact his design is awful. Yes, you can last long enough to make the down not matter. But often times that's not the case. More often than not you're getting pelted trying to make distance. His knife count allows him to miss a million times and still kill you. With dbd's slow movement it's nearly impossible to dodge that many knives with how fast they come out. Anybody who says his knife count is too low is delusional. Maybe back when 8 knives were required, but now he can chew through health-states in seconds. Giving him even more knives would make him lose what little effort he takes to play.
0 -
So basically just have so much distance he gives up trying to chase me?
Don't vault, don't use loops that I have no input on what spawns, don't get cucked by map rng even more and stay at loops UNLESS they're not high walls then I have to hold shift W and hope he isn't already close enough to hit me with knives anyways.
The issue is that it's basically rng if you're going to last more than 30 seconds against him. I can only make do with what I have. And with more of the newer maps spawning with short filler pallets or gaps that gets harder. I don't care if Trickster is low on a tierlist or whatever. I want to play the match instead of just dying because someone picked a certain character.
0 -
"Nerfed", but yes, he don't need a nerf, he has no map presence, but he is good at chases, but... Not always you will have good chases, and on console is a bit more dificult to play him ,that guy complain about trickster, imagine him play against a huntress, "oh god!!! Look this hitbox!!! Aaaaaaaaaa!!!"
1 -
he don't need a nerf, he has no map presence, but he is good at chases, but... Not always you will have good chases, and on console is a bit more dificult to play him.
1 -
they made his maximum laceration switch from 8 to 6 for a reason
1 -
Yes, that's Trickster's Power. You're not supposed to feel safe 100% of the time
1
