if CoH was 50%, would it be way better balance wise?
This would make it like regular self care, so any mangle add-on/perk would be effective again and healing someone would be faster yes but still less effective, this would also bring regular healing perk back up a bit.
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Honestly it would be much better health wise but not balanced still.
The concept of giving everyone on the team the ability to heal by themselves for only 1 perk slot can't really be balanced. Hence why it probably needs a full rework.
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I agree with this, but still requiring 32 seconds to heal on your own if no one is here to help you heal is still helpful for the killer, this would balance it out for a while being like this
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It's not helpful for killer, just not broken.
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Making CoH 50% healng speed wouldn't put CoH's self care to 32 seconds. By default self caring takes 32 seconds to heal, then CoH boosts your healing speed by 50%. So you would end up at 24 second healing (if my math is right).
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It's not overpowered because of the numbers. It's overpowered because the killer can't respond to it like they can the other boons.
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No it wouldn't the problem with COH is that it's unlimited self healing on a SINGLE PERK. The speed doesn't matter, it's a perma medkit for the entire team all match and cannot be removed and entirely by itself removes an entire play strat, that is overpowered like nothing else they have ever added into the game, it completely removes your ability to hit and run, AKA APPLYING PRESSURE and forces you to commit to every single chase it's just absurd. Boons need to be either 1 and done or remove the self healing off COH, until then it will never be balanced.
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No unfortunately the issue is the boon mechanic itself as long as that exist no amount of nerfs will change the issues.
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Someone(I forget who) pointed out a main fundamental design flaw of Circle of Healing's:
Its the only boon that doesn't require you to lead the killer to it to get the effect:
Boon:Shadow Step has half of its effect tied to scratch mark blocking which is only good if the killer could see scratch marks which usually is in chases/patrolling. Either dragging the killer to the boon or having the boon being usually removable in the patrol path.
Boon:Exponential only lets you pick yourself up if you are downed/move into its aura dragging the killer to the boon.
The new Boon:Dark Theory is the same as you'd need to be in its aura in chase to gain any real effect meaning you drag the killer to it.
Boon:Circle of Healing on the other hand doesn't really work mid chase and your actively incentivized to avoid leading the killer to the boon so you can heal at it out of chase.
This means you can both place Circle of Healing very far out of the way of the killer making it effectively irremovable without the killer losing the game meanwhile never needing to risk the boon to get its advantage.
Boons have to be niche/Chase only to be remotely fair as Circle of Healing shows as the main downside of it being a boon doesn't matter to Circle of Healing as its a non chase boon.
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Why CoH is good perk?
Because all team is healing without need anyone else. They are self healing so fast and others are doing generator. So survivors are not wasting time for heal, all team have free med-kits. And this makes CoH so broken.
Is Self-Care good perk?
No. Survivors will waste so much time for heal. This is how Self-Care balanced. You are wasting so much time and this gives good time to killer for other survivors.
Making CoH free Self-Care would balance this perk?
Yes. Like i said, Self-Care is not good. CoH will work for all team for sure but survivors will waste more time for heal. And plus, CoH has small area. So survivors has to run this area for heal. So this is also time-wasting. So this is okey for killers. Survivor is healing long time, not on gen. Good!
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I feel like I’m gonna want a refund for mikela soon
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No “numbers-only” nerf will fix the perk without making it not worth using anymore. But that’s the problem with the entire system really - because the killer has little counterplay beyond snuffing totems (which can be relit infinitely) the perks can’t be that strong or they’d be overpowered. It’s also (mostly) the only boon that has adverse affects far away from the killer which is the main issue with it.
It’d actually still be even faster than that; you’d end up at 21.33 seconds to heal:
Default healing speed: 1
Required charges: 16
Add bonuses first then apply penalties multiplicatively:
50% bonus healing speed: 1 + 0.5 = 1.5c/s
Selfcare penalty (50%): 1.5(0.5) = 0.75
Time to heal yourself: 16 / 0.75 = 21.33
If healing a teammate instead, just skip the selfcare penalty:
16 / 1.5 = 10.67
So yeah, 50% increased healing isn’t really enough of a nerf either. Making it truly like selfcare means removing the healing bonus entirely, which would fix it but then it’s obviously pretty terrible at that point.
(Fwiw, what would create approximately 24 second selfheals would be if the perk was nerfed to 33%; this would be the equivalent of botany + selfcare.)
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This.
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I remember when they made the changes to Ruin, and they said that it had to be a totem perk, because it was so powerful as a late game perk. The problem, obviously, is that it can be destroyed long before you get any benefit out of it. Not so with Boon perks, and I would consider CoH a powerful perk. It's a terrible double standard. Now I play a lot more survivor than killer these days, and I love when CoH is in a match, but I know that it has to be ridiculously frustrating for killers. It's just one more thing to make killers justify camping and tunneling in their heads, which hurts survivors. I have it, I have used it, and i like it, but I understand that it needs to be changed.
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Self care has same efficiency as healing others though.
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Make it 30-33% like Botany, and it's balanced. 50% healing speed or greater, for everyone, is too much value for 1 survivor perk.
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Not sure if this has already been said, but does anyone think CoH would be more fair if it boosted healing speed, but only for healing others? So it would basically work like botany knowledge, but requires at least 2 survivors to take advantage. That way there's no unlimited self care unless someone brings self care as one of their perks.
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If CoH only had 50% of the normal healing speed, it would be worse than Self-Care IMO
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Maybe that was me! I always point out how COH is different to the other boons in how, it doesn't need or want the killer to interact in its radius for the survivors to gain an advantage. It's the fundamental design flaw with the perk, because it provides no fair counter-play for the killer.
To the OP, COH is broken in design, it is either going to be garbage or overpowered. If you reduce the numbers to 50%, then nobody outside of coordinated SWF's are going to run it as the time investment into setting it up and actually using it will probably be comparable to self-care levels of efficiency. Now, if the numbers are too high, then there isn't a reason to NOT run it as it's practically a med-kit and a We'll Make it together into one perk that only one person needs to bring for the entire team to have.
It needs a full rework, you can't fix it in its current state.
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Problem is the fact they can be relighted. I still to this day don't understand who and why came up with the decision to make them spammable and thought it was a great idea.
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Would it? Why? It's still a free perk slot for all other survivors. How can you objectively say that CoH would be worse when it literally gives free Selfcare for other survivors?
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If Circle of Healing became self-care levels of healing speed for yourself, then the survivor meta will merely move back to stacked med-kits as the first option for healing.
Which I would prefer, as there is counter-play and ways to deal with med-kits.
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Because not only do you have to boon a totem, the killer can also snuff it which means that they can disable the perk, forcing you to boon it again if you wanna use it. So the heal would technically be slower than Self-Care. And do you really want the whole team to heal for 32 seconds?
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Technically it would be slower, sure. But I'd argue that's a small price to pay when you grant all other survivors a 5th perk slot.
Yes killers can just snuff it out, wouldn't it be a crazy idea for survivors to boon in spots that are inconvenient for killers to snuff out boons?
Time-efficieny wise, healing yourself for 32 seconds is the exact same as getting someone else to heal you (16s). The only reason a perk like Selfcare gets stigmatized for being horrible is because people don't know when to use it and when not to. I see this as an absolute win if survivors actually have to use their brains when relying on CoH, rather than just being like "well guess I got injured, lemme just get to this boon over here".
Suddenly killers can injure survivors again to pressure survivors rather than having to commit to chases.
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To be frank, no. The current design decisions around boons ensure this perk will never be balanced.
You make boons one use, then this perk is better but the others are garbage. In their current state, this perk is too powerful for how little counterplay it has.
They devs say that they're "working as intended" but Old Spirit was working as intended; intended isn't the same as "good" or "fair"
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I don't quite understand what you mean by "healing yourself for 32 seconds is the exact same as getting someone else to heal you (16s)". If they heal you and then you heal them, then yes, it's the same. But if they only heal you, then it's more efficient to let them heal you.
And I don't think it's a "small price". I mean sure, it's nice to have a 5th perk. But it would be such a time consumer. Because first, you have to find a good totem, then you have to bless it and hope that the killer doesn't find it. And when a survivor is injured, they have to know if it's a good time to heal. And if it is, then they have to go to the boon radius to heal for 32 seconds. But if the killer finds you boon, you have to do it all over again. Because if you bless the same totem, the killer will know exactly where your boon is.
While if you use Self-Care, you just have to know when it's a good time to use it. And when it is, you can just start healing. It's way faster and less risky.
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I think 33% would be the sweet spot
12 seconds to heal others and 24 to heal yourself
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Getting healed takes 2 survivors of their objective. In other words you lose 32 seconds of gen progress when you heal someone, which is the same as Selfcare.
When you have been playing for a while, finding totems isn't hard at all. Each main building has one of these inconvenient totem spawns. Each totem in the area of a completed gen is a good totem to bless because the killer has to go out of their way to snuff it out. There would indeed be more risk involved and strategic thinking. I don't see this as something bad as the killer in the end has to make a similar decision whether they can afford to waste time to snuff out the boon or not. And when a boon is placed inconveniently for the killer, it doesn't really matter whether they know where it is because as I just said. The killer would have to choose whether it's worth snuffing it out or not. Currently, the answer is pretty much always "no" because rebooning doesn't take long at all and the effects of CoH are insane.
It's a lot easier to tunnel the CoH survivor to get them out of the game. It aligns with their objective and gets rid of the boon permanently after all.
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They could make it so if you heal yourself it's at self-care speed but if you heal other survivors in the radius then you get the bonus healing speed.
This way if they run off to heal themselves they waste a lot of time and if they want the bonus healing speed that means 2 less survivors on gens
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Just make the Self-Heal option be limited to 4 meters of the totem and the healspeed effect to 24m.
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I mean I think it would make the perk useless, I run self care over COH anyway because I'm not gonna go look for a totem to heal myself.
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The whole healing got way too much.
They should reduce all healing in the game but i think this will never happen.
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They already did that a while ago, I really don't think that self-care needs nerfed again, and I don't think solo queue needs to be even more boring.
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50% + a token system and it would be balanced.
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No, i mean all healing should reset and balanced new.
I overall think the base game without perks and addons is ok. A lot of problems arise from these things.
All they do is trying to fix or stack with new perks - but they really have to turn all things down and build it new.
But as i said this will not happen imo.
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As reading. Solution to boons and coh itself could be really simple.
CoH is like a medkit. Once depleted it breaks bones / requires regeneration / has to be relit.
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It can be balanced by adjusting the speed of the healing. For example, if the perk let people heal themselves but it took 2 minutes that would be totally worthless. If it takes 5 seconds it’s too strong. So adjusting that one parameter up or down makes the ability range from too weak to too strong, which implies there is a reasonable range of settings for it where the effect could be considered relatively balanced (more or less, since balance is a subjective opinion in part.)
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If you thinking about it Coh kinda is like self care but for all survivors
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It is
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It needs several changes: Lessen the benefits it grants to 33% or 50%. Make it not stack with medkits (it already acts as a medkit so it shouldn't let you dual-weild them). Make it require self-care to get benefit out of it.
I've heard of a proposed rework where it passively gives you healing progression over the course of a minute so long as you're within it's radius which might be more balanced, or at least less abusable as it doesn't just give you 6 second self heals.
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The autoheal part have to dissapear if you wanna balanced it.
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CoH should only have bonus healing for the people that have the perk. For everyone else it should only activate self-care.
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Personal opinion is that Boons need to be changed so that snuffing a totem destroys it instead (You're literally stomping on a pile of bones, how does that not break them?) The heal speed is fine as is to me personally.
Doing that would also make it so Pentimento would be more useful as well-
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Nope. Free infinite medkits should not be a thing, regardless of the healing speed. Fundamental actions like repairing generators or healing shouldn't ever be touched. You want to work on a generator faster? Bring a toolbox. You want to heal by yourself during the match? Bring a medkit. Effects like hiding scratch marks / aura reads or a minute haste effect are cool, because they don't replace a game mechanic. Infinitely healing during the match, without co-op actions is not the way to go. Remember perks like Pharmacy, self-care or botany knowledge? Completely obsolete now.
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I think it would be better to return it to 100% and make it limited use. Like you only get to boon 3 totems. That way you have to think about placement and make each one count. Also it gives killers a reason to kill the boon rather than just tunnel out the booner.
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I think Coh should get remove out of game.
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What if CoH´s boon effect is only activating if you´ve healed somebody before?
You can still boon it before but the SelfHeal ability itself isn´t activating unless you´ve managed to heal someone.
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No. The first minimal step to make boons balanced is to make them breakable for the remainder of the game by the killer.
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The heal speed is honestly irrelevant
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That's hard to say. Giving every survivor self care isn't the worst thing in the world. That's a lot of time wasted healing.
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They could just put a healing cap on 100%, then COH can't get broken through the use of other perks, and it would balance out all healing perks.
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