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Borrowed Time Rework Idea
Borrowed time plays a VERY important role in the game because of how it discourages tunneling as well as how that affects the average player's fun and enjoyment of the game. That said though, it has some problems when it comes to how it can be used for purposes outside of simply preventing the tunnel. As both killer and survivor, we have all probably encountered games where if a killer comes back to an unhook as it happens the unhooked survivor 'takes the hit' for the unhooker utilizing the borrowed time hit to effectively conserve a health state. I am not sure if this is inherently bad even though in that instance borrowed time isn't being used to stop the tunnel, but what is definitely a bad interaction is how in some instances, the unhooked survivor will actively protect the unhooker by body blocking the killer for them. This is particularly difficult in situations where when paired with decisive strike, the killer is put in a lose lose scenario of potentially wasting some time with the unhooked survivor's borrowed time, or wasting even more time with the borrowed time + decisive strike. The body blocking can also go the other way though, in some instances with basement the killer can try to body block on the stairs to out wait the 12 seconds of endurance.
For example on Azarov's resting place, if the basement is not in the shack and instead in the main building, the killer can block at the top of the steps to wait out borrowed time, or try to block the single window or doorway to further waste the endurance time. (Yes I understand that this body block due to the bookshelf is probably not intentional given how they have chosen to widen most basement stairs to prevent this very thing).
Link to example of this body block from the recent Swish Tourney (@2:45:50):
Although the bookshelf is the main culprit here, this example still shows how in some instances, the map design of a survivor's available exit pathing from hooks means that killers can sometimes just block the exit pathing to waste the endurance timer and continue the tunnel.
So what sort of rework could bring the perk back to being a true anti-tunneling perk? Well consider this, to prevent survivors getting stuck in places and then double hit by killers, when injured a survivor can walk through the killer temporarily. What if for a rework, when unhooked, the survivor simply loses their hitbox for the duration of the borrowed time (no more endurance status effect needed). In it's current state, part of what makes the perk punish tunneling is how if the killer does hit the borrowed time survivor, they get a speed boost and thus a bunch of distance on top of the guaranteed 12 seconds of endurance, and the killer has to do the weapon wipe. So instead of only lasting 12 seconds, make borrowed time last say maybe 20 seconds, but deactivate with similar conditions to decisive strike to compensate for the extra time. If the unhooked survivor loses their hixbox, the killer is even more incentivized to go for the unhooker instead since they can only hit the unhooker, or they risk swinging at a survivor that doesn't have a hitbox. This also prevents the survivor use of a anti-tunnel perk as a shield and forcing the killer to tunnel.
The major problem that I can see with this is that now it would be more obvious for killers if the survivor doesn't have the borrowed time effect because they would still have their hitbox. So an alternative solution would be to make this base kit and just rework borrowed time to something else entirely. Patrick stated in one of the streams that they weren't ruling out making borrowed time base kit, and this could be something they could implement for that.
As a summary:
Pros of Current Borrowed Time
-strong anti-tunnel perk that encourages the killer to go for the unhooker and disincentivizes tunneling
-protects the borrowed time survivor for 12 seconds with the endurance status effect, and if hit gives them a speed boost and thus extra distance while the killer has to do weapon wipe
Cons of Current Borrowed time
-Killer can sometimes body block unhooked survivor to waste endurance time and still tunnel
-survivors can use this anti-tunnel perk as a shield to protect others even if the killer doesn't want to tunnel
Recommended Change:
Make borrowed time remove the survivor's hitbox for 20 seconds with deactivating conditions similar to decisive strike, removing the ability for the killer or unhooked survivor to body block each other. Could also make this base kit for every survivor to help prevent tunneling.
What do you think of this idea for a change, and are there some problems with this idea that I missed? If someone already had this idea or similar, I am unaware atm, but would love to hear more about y'all's ideas for an improved borrowed time.
Comments
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Yeah if BT ever becomes basekit it should remove the survivor's collision. As you pointed out yourself that doesn't work so well with its current form as a perk because that actively works against survivors who were unhooked without it.
20 seconds is far too long though; the duration doesn't need to be increased.
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That's fair. The fact it actively would hurt those without borrowed time is a major downside. I wasn't sure how long it should be, but decided on 20 seconds for a few reasons. I thought that with the hit then weapon wipe + distance from the hit, it's possible in general for non-mobility/ranged killers to take that long to catch to catch up to finish the kill in a comparable time to just following them for the 20 sec then hitting them once. My other thinking was that if I wanted to design this to be a very strong anti-tunneling perk, then I don't want to balance it for the killer to think about the risk/reward, and want it to be obvious that it is bad time efficiency for them to try to tunnel the unhooked survivor. 15 sec could also work, but honestly I don't think 20 seconds is that long admittedly. Since killers are faster than survivors, if the killer doesn't swing and just chases them to wait out this reworked borrowed, they could effectively swing as soon as they notice that the survivor's hitbox came back, similar to how some killers currently wait it out atm.
How long would you recommend making it? just curious
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I didn't even think of how it worked in concert against camping in regards to stopping the 1 for 1. If this was ever to be implemented they might want to make some changes in that regard, but I'm not sure if the perk should do that (probably should be a game mechanic to deincentivize camping). When killers are using the hook to make pressure via proxy camping, they do this as well which is an actual strategy and so I'm not sure if this interaction is entirely bad. Notably as well this could also occur when the survivors just unhook in the killer's face right after the killer hooks and the killer must choose to tunnel or 1 for 1.
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If it's a basekit mechanic then probably just remove collision and experiment with keeping it at 12 seconds to start, but if anything it might have to be lowered a tiny bit. Idk, the duration is something that'd have to be tested. An essentially 5th perk slot is a big deal already.
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Why remove collision? To prevent the BT person from bodyblocking the killer and forcing them to hit them instead of the unhooker, or another reason I can't figure?
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Why remove collision? To prevent the BT person from bodyblocking the killer and forcing them to hit them instead of the unhooker, or another reason I can't figure?
The fact that currently the killer can body block the unhooked survivor to just try to wait out the endurance timer, or that the unhooked survivor can use the endurance like a shield goes against the core idea of borrowed time as an anti-tunnel perk. If it's meant to stop a tunnel, why is the unhooked survivor using it like a shield and forcing the killer to tunnel an effective stategy? If the developers want it to stay that way that's fair, but the body blocking potential on both sides greatly shifts the use of the perk away from its anti-tunnel role.
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Oh yeah didn't consider the fact the killer could bodyblock them in a corner, cause I mostly see the unhooked survivor running at me to take a hit when I'm obviously going for the unhooker, so losing collision in that scenario is what came to my mind first.
But yea I agree, it would be a way to counter those two forms of abuse. They could still get hit, but just no collision so the killer could walk through them if they wanted to. (or they could walk through the killer, in the case of them being bodyblocked in a corner)
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Yes to prevent using BT to stop the killer from attempting to NOT tunnel (especially if combined with DS).
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I'm all for it.. usually , after a few seconds of them bodyblocking, I'll just whack them and send them mending in a corner.. but I should definitely try to time it so I hit them after BT runs out so they go crawl instead.
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The problem with removing collision is that the killer can just "check" if there is BT by walking through, if there is collision then just hit. If you removed collision you'd have to give a sprint boost too.
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Either that, or just give them the sprint boost without any defensive perks. Like a 4-5 second sprint is a lot for most killers to deal with.
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No thanks, I'd rather not make camping even more effective by guaranteeing a hook trade in most situations
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If the killer is camping, and you are able to 'hook trade in most situations' doesn't that mean the other survivors can just slam gens and the killer has no map pressure? On top of this, the killer isn't tunneling as well, which is the point of the perk to prevent. The killer might be able to guarantee a kill via camping this way until no one can afford to hook trade, but they can already do this. The way to prevent a hook trade it so use multiple survivors body blocking to stop the hook trade, which currently is already often required.
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DS is supposed to be the anti-tunnel perk. BT is anti-camp. Rewarding a camping killer with multiple guaranteed hook trades isn't fulfilling the purpose of the perk and rewards a low-effort, boring strategy.
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Sorry but BT is not anti-camp. Old BT was. It does nothing to assist getting past a camping killer. The only anti-camp perk options survivor have right now are Kindred and Camaraderie.
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