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I think DS should deactivate on endgame, and BT have a minor active time
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Tunneling and camping can be beat during the end game. DS cannot. :P
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Yeah I knew what you meant. Lol
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Hey you never know the survivor could miss the skill check!!
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Slap em down, wait for their friends to come try to pick them back up.
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Not reliable to lean on in the slightest.
How does that stop them from crawling out the gate?
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It doesn't, unless you slap them down far enough away, if you want something that always works 100% of the time without fail, try single player games.
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I don't want something that works 100% of the time. I want something that has even a mildly reasonable chance of success. Them being unhooked with DS active during the endgame has close to 0% chance of being caught again (assuming the player in question is not bad).
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Then either tunnel it out of them beforehand, or slug them after. Those are the options that provide a reasonable chance of success
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I'd like an option that does not involve eating a DS. The second option does not work for the below reason:
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Those are your only options bud.
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Seems to me like a good indication of DS needing to be changed in some way, if there's no way to avoid it without being punished.
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I’m sorry but I have to disagree with you. I think DS is in a good spot.
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Why? You just told me that my only options to avoid it during EGC were to either slug it out, which does not work, or to eat it early, which is actively contradictory to its purpose as an anti-tunneling perk.
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I'd like to be able to buy captain Morgan pre-mixed with Dr pepper, but we don't always get what we want. The counters are there, if you are too worried about someone crawling away, or taking a quick stun in a more favorable part of the match to use them, that's your problem.
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What would the compensatory buff be?
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I meant I disagree that DS needs more changes.
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Counters are not there. "Intentionally trigger DS" is not a way to avoid triggering DS.
I'd be fine with removing the once-per-trial condition.
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It's a way to counter having to deal with DS in the end game.
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Yeah i had same idea. DS will work for both hook states but after last gen pop, DS will not work anymore.
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I asked you why.
I said that intentionally triggering DS is not a way to avoid triggering DS. :P
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I’ve already explained why.
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Because you like hitting Killers with DS at the Exit Gate. :P
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I'd say BT should have a double (maybe even tripled?) duration, but do nothing if you take a protection hit.
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I do wanna say I don’t do it to be toxic, it’s just one of those “YES” moments.
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As a survivor main I’m actually perfectly fine with the idea - but only if camping and tunneling pre-end game are addressed as well.
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Eh I don’t think ds should work twice. The way it is now is fine. There have been times where I needed to tunnel someone out and they would hit me with ds to avoid the second hook state. But I always say to myself, “now you have no defense”. I do my thing afterwards
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Yeah, I think this would make the perk perfect.
I didn't say it was toxic. I said the perk lacked reasonable counterplay.
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Among the wishlist of changes I'd love to see would be a time when no killer "needs" to tunnel a surv out.
Hard to argue with its effectiveness in the current meta & balancing, just sucks so much for the tunnelee.
Is that even a word? ;)
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I didn't claim it was. This thread is about DS in the endgame. The easiest way to avoid DS in the endgame is to bait it out when you have time to eat the stun
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yes lets nerf the two most beneficial end game perks to make everyone die at end game yes
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funny eating the DS before endgame is counter play to survivors but there thread and thread by survivor about killer with no counter play when there is counter play..
funny how one side people can be.
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Don't you know, claiming something on either side has no counter play means it has to be completely broken /s
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80% of my matches this whole week have been nothing but campers
Literally my last 3 matches was
Pyramid head hooked me, i got off, they tunnelled me, put me back on hook second i got off they long shotted me and put me back on (this was at 5 gens remaining)
Pig hooked me, i went onto second phase, survivor saved me. Pig literally went right behind me as i was about to come off and the second the invincibility frames wore off she hit me and put me back on (4 gens remaining)
Leatherface match had 2 survivors get hooked and facecamped i managed to save one and flashlight save but the second i did he ignored me and just went straight back after the survivor
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I don't want DS end game, in fact I don't want DS at all, I don't tunnel but if I happen to find you when the one who saved you simply hide, sorry i'll go for you, I shouldn't be punished because your teammate didn't distracted me and i'll fall for the distraction
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DS is an anti-tunneling perk. Survivors can still get tunneled after the gens are done, right? The perk is fine and it's doing what it's supposed to do. No, it does not need to deactivate. This is crazy to me.
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No thanks.
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Nah it's all fine, just play face camp Bubba.
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I think BT should just not have bodyblocking and that's it. The problem with punishing saves at endgame is that the grab system doesn't really work well... for killers. I know that the devs keep saying that it's not survivor sided or killer sided or whatever but it really doesn't feel like it.
As for DS. I understand, Trust me I UNDERSTAND. I've been there waaaay to many times and holy crap does it feel like robbery at the highest order but I don't know if deactivating it during endgame is the way to go. Maybe make the timer shorter during endgame? Maybe make it so that it can be used more during the trial but it has a significant less stun or timer? I don't know but making it deactivate doesn't feel right. I'm not sure about you but I don't like the feeling of having a perk not available for almost the entire match.
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I don't think you know how detrimental eating a DS or hitting someone with BT is.
Also "Eat a DS midgame if you can afford it". What if you can't? Then what?
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DS: I've often thought it was unfair to have a free escape by DS during EGC. Then I realized it means that either the killer hasn't managed to get the survivor or that he has played "fair" like a sucker. Ergo, it's fine.
BT: The time seems just right. A shorter time would make it pointless and a longer one would make it too powerful.
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Survivors don't have to give you free chase. Your job is find and chase them. And if you go after this guy, yeah you will eat DS if they have. So risk is yours, perk does its job.
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i dont think so , as many players stated on tunnel atm i think we are closer to a basekit than a nerf.
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And that to me is a sign that something is still wrong with the perk because it means you can't avoid it without being punished.
If it's an anti-tunneling perk, why is the other person in this thread telling me to tunnel someone if I want to avoid it during the end game? Is that what it's supposed to be doing? Encouraging people to tunnel early to get it out of the way?
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Then my response is the same as it is for those survivors who say the killer kept up too much pressure for them to remove noed.
You got outplayed. Just move on to the next match.
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1. Punished. Lol
2. Yeah, according to the game mechanics "tunneling" apparently just means hooking the same survivor again before they heal anyone or touch a gen/totem. If you played well enough prior to end game it honestly wouldn't come up, but I've never been a fan of "get good" as an answer, so I provided actual counters to avoid the specific instances where you find yourself trying to rehook someone at end game when they have DS active.
3. "Anti-tunnel perk" doesn't mean the same as "perk that completely makes you immune to being tunneled". If it did, then DS would be able to be hit indefinitely and without any sort of skill check, which would just be absolutely broken. All it has ever meant to be is a single chance at getting away. As killer you can either play around that fact, or I suppose you can just keep coming here asking for unreasonable changes to make up for you not wanting to strategize in match
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1) Yes, absolutely punished.
2) Yes, that is the generally accepted definition of tunneling, is it not? The counters you are suggesting are not good and signs that something is still wrong with the perk.
3) You cannot tell me to play around that fact if you are simultaneously telling me to actively play into it. Those two things are mutually exclusive.
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No, they are perfect the way they are, DS got nerfed enough already (which is good). The perks are doing their job as intended.
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BT doesn't need its duration decreased, but its endurance effect should strip unit collision for the duration. I don't want to hit the person who just got unhooked, so don't make me.
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1. Again, lol people who use "punish" when talking about a game, make me question their level of maturity. You aren't being "punished" because a player took a perk and used it on you, any more than a survivor is "punished" by being hooked. Both are just parts of game flow.
2. Well then, don't tunnel.
3. Again, it's about timing. I am talking about specifically stopping D's from being active at the end of the match. The only way to stop a 1 time use perk on either side from being active at the end of the match is to get the player to use it sooner. You could also just be a good enough killer to put everyone on death hook by egc, then it won't matter, because anyone you hooked at end game would die immediately, no DS at all.
Here's why I say this is ridiculous. In all my years, I can't think of a single other team based multiplayer game that disables one sides perks, abilities, powers, etc just because the game is close to over. Of course, I've only been playing games since I built my IBM 286 back in the day, so maybe you can enlighten me and tell me a game that limits the powers of one side just because the end of the match is near.
The entire premise of this thread is basically "wahh, why can survivors still have their escape perks just because they didn't use them earlier" what's next? Should we stop bubba's chainsaw from working if the game is in the end phase?
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1) "Punish" is a frequently used term in the video game community to refer to a player suffering a strategic reprecussion for a particular action. I don't know why you are implying that it is not universally accepted terminology.
2) Then that person gets a virtually guaranteed escape during the end game.
3) Two Killer abilities become partially inert once the game reaches its final phase (Pig's RBTs and Freddy's teleports). So yeah, the whole argument of "no other game does this" just makes no sense. Also, "eat the DS" or "just hook everyone enough" are not acceptable counters. One because it means you have to actively play into it, which goes against the entire notion of playing around it, and the other because it is a glorified way of saying "git gud."
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