http://dbd.game/killswitch
Condemnation - The reason Sadako FEELS weak
I've been doing OK with her.
Her mind games thanks to Mani/Demani are decent.
Her teleport also functions pretty well as a basic movement tool.
Condemnation, however, is basically a non-existant mechanic...
I've ended games with 4k and 'fair play' that resulted in 2 people getting a couple of stacks despite actively trying to condemn them.
In my 10 games against her, I've gotten to 4 stacks, max...this is including the +3 from taking a tape (which is a very weak/lazy mechanic that needs a total overhaul).
I really think that there should be an easier (and weaker) way to gain stacks - maybe gain 0.5 off a hit or something equally as basic.
As it stands now, both the tape and condemned mechanics may as well not even exist.
Comments
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It’s not meant to be an insanely impactful mechanic imo. More so a passive slowdown/ homage to the films
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Condemnation should start building up as soon as a Survivor gains 1 stack. There's no reason for it to only gain stacks if you're holding a tape or if The Onryō teleports to you
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Passive condemnation gain is all it needs. Force more interaction with tapes.
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And that would be fine, if her main kit, being her stealth, weren't so damn underwhelming. Manfesting and demanifesting gives so little in the game. It's an interesting mechanic, just not a good one.
If condemned had a real impact, it would be ok for manifest to be as weak as it is. If manifest had a real impact, it would be ok for condemned to be as weak as it is.
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Thing is, it doesn't slow anything down. You can just ignore the mechanic and you won't get affected by it
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Her manifest seems pretty decent in chase to throw off survivor at least from what I’ve seen
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It's honestly neither in its current state.
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It's a mild irritant at best.
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What if condemnation would build like freddy microsleep.
When you start the trial your condemd will start growing you have almost like 3 mins to use a videotape.
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When you teleport to a TV, its either a fail one that no survivor is there, wasting resource & time. Or a lucky one with 4 Condem bar (1 on 4 survivors) which really powerful.
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Haven't played against her yet, so no idea what any of this means.
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This may come off as rude, but it is sincere:
It doesn't matter in 99% of the matches you'll play against her @_@
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It's still undertuned. If she's going to have little to no chase utility, then the Condemned mechanic needs to be a bit more impactful. It's something you can completely ignore for 90% of the match. Occasionally use a tape.
And she has no chase at all. Just camp a pallet.
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I've played as her once and against her once
Against her, I got zero condemnation. Granted, she only teleported twice so maybe I need to play against her more to see it.
The survivors I played against were baby survivors. By the end, I was teleporting all around like damn Nightcrawler to see if I could get condemnation to do anything but it never did.
It just kind of seems like it's there but has no real bearing on the match. Again I've only played with her in play twice so maybe that was just bad luck but based on what I've seen of her, condemnation seems to never come into play.
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There's nothing wrong with it not getting kills. The issue is that it's completely ignorable; there's no slowdown because you build up condemned so slowly that you barely need to interact with tapes.
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I'd imagine that her loop/structure manifestation mindgame (which was recently buffed) will eventually be gutted akin to Spirit due to 'lack of info.'
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To get full condemned you need to play for it... and it takes way to long to get any sort of progress seeing how easy it is to get it off
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The tapes can be ignored almost completely so there is no slow down. Even if you do take a tape there is really no rush to get over and play it, lots of time to finish a gen knowing she can't teleport to the TV for 60 seconds.
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Would having the mini-mori available on death hook at either
A) Any Condemned progress
OR
B) 50% Condemned progress
help this mechanic out?
...basically thinking along the lines of P.Head.
This would function as way to force more tape interaction throughout the course of the match....especially late game.
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It's not even effective slow down. I'd say it offers less slow down then having to grab pinheads box. It even takes less time to enter the box into the VCR then it would take to solve the box.
Edit: I actually feel that PinHead offers a great comparison on how to rate this killer.
PinHead - chase power (weak and hard to use)
Sadako - chase power (much weaker and is basically just a slightly better mind game then moon walking tiles)
PinHead - Puzzle Box , allows you to teleport directly to a survivor.
Sadako - allows you to teleport to a television and that television can be turned off by the survivor. Against good groups I had literally no teleport ability at all
PinHead's punishment for ignoring the box or for him finding it first. Extreme slow-down forcing survivors off of generators and preventing them from healing
Sadako punishment for getting condemned stacks is unlikely to reach 7 stacks if TVs are ignored. However, that's not even the optimal way of playing. The optimal way to play against Sadako is to pick up a tape, and turn off any TV that you come across and then periodically return the tape to clear your stacks. Sadako cannot even pressure a survivor who has a tape because they stop receiving condemned when she chases them. And there's no guarantee that a survivor holding a tape has 5 or 6 stacks. They may only have 1 or 2 so trying to get additional stacks on a survivor holding a tape is pretty pointless as well.
I've said this in the PTB and I'm saying it now. Sadako isn't just a weak killer, she's the weakest killer. Clown, Legion, Trapper all have more going for them than she has going for her.
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Post edited by DangerScouse on0
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it isn't very impactful no. Once on death hook it goes from extremely mild inconvenience to complete non-issue. Also letting it fill up once on death hook is a good way to draw attention away from your teammates as she'll likely throw the game for a chance to actually get to do it.
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I don't think a free tunnel ticket off 2nd hook for another killer is the ideal solution.
I think interacting with the tapes should shut them down for longer as survivors, but also be more dangerous, perhaps through faster progression, or giving away your location, idk...something. We need real trade offs for both sides to create interesting/difficult choices.
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I got a Yui condemned in my first game with her and I barely knew what I was doing. Wasn't until about 1 gen remaining did I hit my stride (Just in time btw). I find her not only pretty damn decent but fun at the same time. I mean it's too early for that to matter as I also loved Artist when she first came out and now I find her boring asf.
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I agree that she is fun!
As for the Yui...unless you were running a particular set of add-ons, they probably engaged in 0 counter-play.
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Maybe you did manage to get a survivor condemned, but I find it more likely that the survivor chose to get condemned.
But, I hear you ask, why would a survivor try to get condemned?
- They want to see the Mori , curiosity killed the cat as they say
- They are on death hook but healthy and you are chasing their friend who is death hook and injured. They're hoping that you will abandon the chase to get your mori, and honestly I think most killers would.
Do you see exactly why she is so bad? Survivors can bait you into playing badly, and it doesn't even appear that way. To play the Onyro well you need to be able to see when you are being baited and when there's an opportunity. But the mechanic is so easy to prevent that just about every time that it goes off it only went off because they let it go off. There's very little that you can do to get it to go off through actions that you take.
There is an exception to this rule, it is possible to legitimately get the condemned status if you're running the Ring Note and the Iri tape add-on on a small map. But I would consider that a meme, similar to playing scratched mirror Myers on Lery's.
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She has a addon where if someone finishes a heal action they get 1 condemned. Maybe add this to her base kit, it feels like a great way and mechanic, it adds abit of tactic and team play to it.
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Don't really care why or how. I never said I moried her as I actually couldn't find her. The KI from it only last (what felt like) 3 seconds and 2 of the seconds was me climbing from the tv. From my experience last night majority of tv's are near gens....If they don't want me to teleport on top of them or build up condemned they turn it off. That is fine to me...they spent the time to do that but no offense to anyone a killer you can teleport around the map at will is not weak regardless of how bad everyone seems to want to do the condemned mori.
It can delete someone instantly from the game so it should be hard to get. She is right there on the cusp of if they change this to much she is OP if they only do it this way she too weak. Honestly reminds me of the trickster situation.
Edit: Also even if Yui did it on purpose to bait me...when I teleported I only seen Yun-Jin who was injured and on death hook (which could be why she did it if she did) so technically I took the best option anyhow even though Yui was moriable but healthy.
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It should have a 'reasonable' chance to trigger during the full duration of the match as opposed to a nearly non-existent one.
My opinion, of course.
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I get that....but you get what I'm saying where she is one tweak from trash and one tweak from OP. Right now IMO I have her in A-tier but as I've stated the teleport alone puts her in B-tier and adding the stealth, 24 TR, and buffable speed boost out of TV's IMO pushes her to A-tier.
A-tier is perfect for a killer. Not insanely strong but also not a push over.
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thats not even close to where I would put her
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IDK I did say it was my opinion. I am also a bit less hardcore to faceplant a killer 24 hrs after release.
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When you type things like this, it usually helps to explain where/why you would place her.
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I know.
I was just stating my opinion.
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I just played a game where I did this and it doesn't seem to work at all. I was using Iridescent Videotape (turn TVs back on) and Ring Drawing (gain condemnation when healing someone). Whenever I was chasing someone and they were running towards a TV, I would teleport it to build condemnation. I did this throughout the whole game. Despite this, I didn't manage to condemn a single survivor. Granted, this was red ranks.
Apparently there should be a loud noise notification when someone messes with video tape, but I didn't get anything like that. It felt like I was busting my ass off trying to get them condemned, and I could see they had the status, but they could just ignore it entirely and go about their business as if the mechanic didn't even exist.
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I just did that and it doesn't work. I was using Iridescent Videotape (turn TVs back on) and Ring Drawing (survivors gain condemnation when healing someone). Whenever I was chasing someone and they were close to a TV, I would teleport to it to build condemnation. I was doing that during the whole game. Despite this, not a single survivor got fully condemned. (And I managed to do close teleports many, many times.)
Apparently there should be a loud noise notification when someone messes with the video tape, but I did not receive such a thing. They were playing as if the mechanic didn't even exist as far as I could tell. Meanwhile I was doing everything to make it happen and yet nothing.
Say what you will about the condemnation but from my experiences trying to make it work, the mechanic is so weak it might just as well not even exist at all. Any build towards it is a wasted effort as you'd be far more efficient playing standard and you too acting as if it doesn't exist, because you won't be able to get it off. At least not on higher MMR.
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Yea I'm agreeing with you with what I said... That it takes way to long to get full condemnation
It is vary weak at this point... so maybe the Mid- Chapter patch will do something about it
Right now don't worry about getting full condemnation on Survivors...
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