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Can we get Wraiths Lunge back? Wraiths Nerf makes him utterly mediocre again.
Please BHVR
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no sorry, he was just a tad too overturned! just a wee little OP! just in need of a sliiight adjustment to make him properly balanced! a smidgen too oppressive! just a bit too strong!
Post edited by Haddix on8 -
I agree.
He was fine before the nerf. His stats are misleading, because he's both a free killer and a killer that can be difficult for newer players to handle.
The fact that, taking this into account, he's significantly low on the kill-rate list says a lot about how much that nerf hurt him.
Was he? I never thought so, and he wasn't exactly blowing up tourney play.
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They tried to buff him and arguably made him worse than he was before. He moved at 124 movement speed when cloacked i think, but his purple add on made him 150 and they just made that add on basekit. Then few months later they nerfed one of his best add ons all seeing blood and nearly 20% of his speed/lunge after uncloacking and he does just feel completely average again. M1 killers are never allowed to be good, everyone gotta play blight, spirit to compete.
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memeing
wraith is hot ass
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This is why we need to stop balancing cause something is boring and unfun. They need to balance a killer to where there strong but are fun to play as. Wraith was buffed people said he’s boring cause he moves at 150% and has a quick lunge for 1.25. Everyone said he was unfun and they nerfed him cause he was “UNFUN” balancing around fun can either help or hurt some characters.
I would just bring Wraiths post lunge to 1.20 or 1.15 seconds so he’s stronger but not so god dam weak
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He got nerfed right when COH got introduced so even if they didn't nerf his lunge he would've gotten a lot weaker. The lunge nerf was just salt in the wound.
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NO
He is fine as he is.
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We balance for bad survivors so we cant have nice things
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1.25 was fine, that's where it should be. putting it at 1.2 is just arbitrary, might as well just be 1.25 then.
i don't think there's a lot fun about facing him because he's either hit n run or m1 killer, neither of which are interesting. he was never overpowered though, and especially not with COH ruining his most efficient playstyle. but it's okay, the stats show that wee little adjustment has properly tuned him. :)
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I wish that they revert all-seeing blood change to 12 meter aura reading. The add-on was the same for years with no complaints until they adjusted wraith. that add-on was only reason for me to play wraith. The lunge gave him a tiny bit of chase. If it got improved further, he would have some outplay potential at loops with it, imagine... wraith having anti-loop. crazy.... too crazy for devs, wee bit over tuned. poor wraith.
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Isn't Spirit an M1 killer?
Come to think of it, I don't think I've played a single game with her since her nerf.
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No. Spirit is by definition not an M1 killer, because she doesn't chase like one. Spirit relies on her power to get hits, like Nurse, Blight, Slinger, Trickster, etc. Unlike Sadako, Myers, Wraith, all of whom play like and are M1 killers.
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I thought the definition of an M1 Killer was a killer that can only cause health states by pressing M1? In which case, Spirit is absolutely an M1 Killer.
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When people mention M1 killers, they talk of a killer who cannot use their power to injure survivors and must chase them on foot moving at 115% speed.
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That... is a weirdly unique list. So Hag is not an M1 Killer?
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No, honestly. When people say gameplay is that of an M1 killer, they mean someone that must chase by foot, such as Sadako. Chasing as Hag is one of the biggest mistakes you can possibly make, and therefore she is not an M1 killer on terms of when people refer to M1 killer gameplay.
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That.... feels like a dumb way to describe M1 Killer. If I cannot down you with M2, then to me you are KILLING with M1, thereby making you an M1 KILLER.
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And yet the gameplay is not that of an M1 killer, and so when people refer to M1 killers and the issues with their gameplay they do not include Wraith, Myers, Spirit and Nurse within the same umbrella.
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Overnerfed not overtuned
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See, this is what I thought. People always seem to exclude Spirit and Nurse from the M1 killer list (including me, sometimes, without thinking about it), but I don't think there's any requirement that M1 killers be bad.
I found it weird that the guy I was replying to complained about how "all M1 killers have to be bad" and then lists an M1 killer that isn't bad at all, almost as if part of his M1 criteria is that the killer has to be regarded as bad.
So Trapper isn't an M1 killer, then, right? Because his bear traps injure people and his power affects chase.
How exactly is Wraith all that different from Spirit? They have almost the exact same power.
Is part of your M1 criteria based around "has to be C or D tier" more than whether or not the killer actually relies on the M1 button? I'm not trying to be antagonistic; I genuinely don't understand.
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Part of my criteria or part of the criteria that the community decided upon years ago and have been using ever since despite incorrect technical terminologies?
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Oh no. It takes no skill to play wraith and to achieve good results on him. Buffing him again would make too many unexperienced killers achieve 4 K which are not deserved.
Better give a "slight" buff to billy.
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I think they could just reduce the reappearance time by the same amount the lunge was nerfed.
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No, he's not.
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Either/or.
Is Trapper an M1 by your definition? What's the difference between Spirit and Wraith?
I'm just saying it all seems a little bit hinky to me. I mean, yeah, when I saw "M1 killer", I'm usually thinking stealth killers like Michael and Ghostface and even trapper despite being able to get downs with M2, but I figured it was just something I unconsciously picked up on. When was all this standardized? Was it before Spirit was released?
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The guy moves at Warp 7 around the map, has sick add ons, can break pallets and generators without having to manually turn his power off, and has pretty much an automatic hit after decloaking unless the Survivor has Sprint Burst or is within 4 meters of a pallet or window.
He is totally fine.
The problem is some people confuse fine with "viable at top rated MMR like Nurse or Blight". He is at the top? No, but that doesn't mean he isn't fine.
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I agree, before the nerf he was good against strong survivors, now he is only strong against average players, which is annoying, because he becomes an annoying character instead of strong
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Even before the nerf he wasn't among even the top 10 killers, don't exaggerate saying people wanted him to be on nurse or blight level. He was fine before the nerf.
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I used to main wraith and the nerf made his anti loop basically pointless it was only strong on bad tiles anyways and at the end of the day he still can't do anything about just dropping pallets. COH being introduced just completely killed my interest in him.
People are pretending that he was somehow insanely strong after the buffs he got when in fact he was just becoming a mid tier instead of bottom of the barrel trash. Nerfed purely because new players can't deal with stealth
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No. His post-uncloak lunge literally guaranteed a completely free hit.
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Legion gets free injures with his power and more easily what's wrong with that? This just makes that first hit much harder which is the main point of his ambush attack. Unless the tile was very bad to begin with you were only making them drop a pallet a little bit quicker. At the end of the day he's still a m1 killer who has to eat pallets/pallet stuns with some mobility and stealth.
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Wraith is way to simple to use. Simple to use killers can't be powerful because once experts at the game get ahold of simple to use powerful killers, then we have 4k streaks for 100s of games in a row on youtube. If he was complex and hard to use, then he could get buffed
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The difference between Legion is, his Feral Frenzy cannot down you. Wraith gets a borderline-unfair postcloak lunge which often rewards him for a very easy down with little to no effort at all.
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Yes a "free easy down" at tiles you can get the pallet down in a few seconds anyways on a m1 killer. You drop the pallet early and wraith can't do anything about it. Even better just spam vault the pallet so he can't even break it while cloaked making him waste even more time. This is ignoring the fact flashlights hard counter him and you have to play safe around them or eat a ds level stun. Don't even need to mention that most windows are a strong counter unless you dedicate bamboozle.
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Neither he nor his add-ons were ever OP. He got nerfed because bad survivors couldn't beat him.
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None of this works when the wraith decloaks on your ass on a generator without a pallet or window within 15 meters. You just die.
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I can think of a very strong healing perk that got released that gives no excuse for being caught out injured
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I wish they would revert his lunge cause playing him feels terrible.
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Assuming he lets you put it up in the first place, or lets you finish the heal. Since, again, he can cross the map rapidly. And has lots of ways to read auras.
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Upvote the ######### out of this post and maybe.
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I may hate Wraith, but even I'd say he didn't deserve to be nerfed.
He's in a pretty bad spot right now.
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Demogorgon has the same thing on a much longer range and no cooldown though.
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Wraith was considered rthe worst killer by most high players. At least in the top 3.
Good players don't care if a killer is easy or hard to play. If you're a very good players with thousands of hours, every killer is simple to use.
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An easy killer in the hands of an expert is oppressive.
Wraith is the simplest killer to use in the entire game. If Wraith was made to be harder to use, then I think it would be fine if he was buffed.
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Yeah, but wraith was never an oppressive killer even with previous buff
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The developers felt he was oppressive enough that he needed nerfs.
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That's exactly the problem. The whole community has always considered wraith to be a very weak killer.
Developpers shouldn't balance their games because a killer is difficult for new players.
New players will stay bad if developpers go out of their way to make the game simple for them.
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The only thing wraith needed was the nerf to all seeing, the lunge nerf is unessescary. Its a perfect example of something getting nerfed because bad survivors couldn't handle it. They could buff his lunge and he would be totally fine.
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Hey Richard.
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By that definition Sadako and Wraith also aren’t M1 killers since they use their power to start chases at a closer distance than usual to reduce the chance of a survivor getting to a safe spot at a loop before a hit. So they don’t “chase like a killer with no ability” either.
Also it’s worth noting that there are kind of two separate factors here - how does a killer handle a chase or loop, and do they have an attack other than the basic attack? Which factor is important depends on the context of the discussion. For example, if you’re talking about getting instant downs from Exposed hits, then a killer that only uses basic attacks will get a little more use out of the Exposed condition than a killer that has a special attack which can do damage like Huntress or Demogorgon or Trickster, etc. Or similarly when people talk about something like Save the Best for Last it’s considered really strong on Demogorgon because he has an alternate attack other than M1 versus being slightly weaker on a killer that only has M1 attacks who would lose stacks hitting the Obsession like Clown or Sadako or Wraith.
To me, personally, when I say someone is a basic attack killer I mean they only attack with their M1 attack and don’t do damage in other ways. And then if I want to talk about how a killer handles loops or zoning or stealth or whatever I’ll refer to things in those terms.
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