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Sabotage Basement Hooks (or at least let them break)

Kind_Lemon
Kind_Lemon Member Posts: 2,559
in Feedback and Suggestions

Dear devs,

Since you nerfed sabotage into oblivion and made numerous addons and items worthless, it would be nice if you removed the restriction on sabotaging basement hooks so that Breakdown can work on them.

Sincerely,
A fan of your game

Comments

  • Master
    Master Member Posts: 10,200

    @Kind_Lemon said:
    Dear devs,

    Since you nerfed sabotage into oblivion and made numerous addons and items worthless, it would be nice if you removed the restriction on sabotaging basement hooks so that Breakdown can work on them.

    Sincerely,
    A fan of your game

    Sabotage has received quite some buffs recently, just fyi

  • Kind_Lemon
    Kind_Lemon Member Posts: 2,559

    @Master said:

    @Kind_Lemon said:
    Dear devs,

    Since you nerfed sabotage into oblivion and made numerous addons and items worthless, it would be nice if you removed the restriction on sabotaging basement hooks so that Breakdown can work on them.

    Sincerely,
    A fan of your game

    Sabotage has received quite some buffs recently, just fyi

    By "quite some buffs" to sabotage, you mean...what, exactly? Saboteur was modified slightly so that it no longer has the efficiency bonus (balanced out by the overall toolbox efficiency increase), further separating it from (and making it worse than) self care in design style and it adds another 30 seconds to sabotaged things. Those don't seem like "quite some buffs" nor would allowing basement hooks be sabotage-able be a buff. I don't see why the argument that is based on the idea of since something has already been tinkered with it needs no further work is feasible.

  • Master
    Master Member Posts: 10,200

    @Kind_Lemon said:

    @Master said:

    @Kind_Lemon said:
    Dear devs,

    Since you nerfed sabotage into oblivion and made numerous addons and items worthless, it would be nice if you removed the restriction on sabotaging basement hooks so that Breakdown can work on them.

    Sincerely,
    A fan of your game

    Sabotage has received quite some buffs recently, just fyi

    By "quite some buffs" to sabotage, you mean...what, exactly? Saboteur was modified slightly so that it no longer has the efficiency bonus (balanced out by the overall toolbox efficiency increase), further separating it from (and making it worse than) self care in design style and it adds another 30 seconds to sabotaged things. Those don't seem like "quite some buffs" nor would allowing basement hooks be sabotage-able be a buff. I don't see why the argument that is based on the idea of since something has already been tinkered with it needs no further work is feasible.

    You forgot to mention that it takes 3 times less time to pick someone up from the floor now

    Also you shouldnt forget that slugging gameplayy usually us really boring for the survivors (maybe you like bleeding out, i dont know)

  • Kind_Lemon
    Kind_Lemon Member Posts: 2,559

    @Master said:

    @Kind_Lemon said:

    @Master said:

    @Kind_Lemon said:
    Dear devs,

    Since you nerfed sabotage into oblivion and made numerous addons and items worthless, it would be nice if you removed the restriction on sabotaging basement hooks so that Breakdown can work on them.

    Sincerely,
    A fan of your game

    Sabotage has received quite some buffs recently, just fyi

    By "quite some buffs" to sabotage, you mean...what, exactly? Saboteur was modified slightly so that it no longer has the efficiency bonus (balanced out by the overall toolbox efficiency increase), further separating it from (and making it worse than) self care in design style and it adds another 30 seconds to sabotaged things. Those don't seem like "quite some buffs" nor would allowing basement hooks be sabotage-able be a buff. I don't see why the argument that is based on the idea of since something has already been tinkered with it needs no further work is feasible.

    You forgot to mention that it takes 3 times less time to pick someone up from the floor now

    Also you shouldnt forget that slugging gameplayy usually us really boring for the survivors (maybe you like bleeding out, i dont know)

    Are you arguing against allowing Breakdown to destroy a respawnable basement hook by saying that slugging is boring? When was the last time that you were slugged because of Sabotage, much less in the basement? Pray tell, why does slugging play into the change I propose?

  • Mister_xD
    Mister_xD Member Posts: 7,669

    sure.
    but i want something in return!
    what about... survivors cant recover anymore when in dying state, plus slugging is now rewarded with pips.
    thanks.

  • Kind_Lemon
    Kind_Lemon Member Posts: 2,559

    @Mister_xD said:
    sure.
    but i want something in return!
    what about... survivors cant recover anymore when in dying state, plus slugging is now rewarded with pips.
    thanks.

    ...why would you want this? I mean, if you were a developer, I'd make the deal, but still. What is going on in your life to want that?

  • Mister_xD
    Mister_xD Member Posts: 7,669

    @Kind_Lemon said:

    @Mister_xD said:
    sure.
    but i want something in return!
    what about... survivors cant recover anymore when in dying state, plus slugging is now rewarded with pips.
    thanks.

    ...why would you want this? I mean, if you were a developer, I'd make the deal, but still. What is going on in your life to want that?

    why i would want this?
    simple.
    you cant just nerf slugging into the ground and take away our hooks. if one is to be nerfed, the other one has to be buffed. for balance reasons.
    and let me ask you this:
    would you really make the deal? are you sure you would want that?
    cuz honestly, as a survivor i wouldnt. have you ever been slugged? meaning 5 minutes on the ground until you bled out and died? its no fun.
    take away a killers hooks and thats what he'll do. are you really gonna say yes to a deal that would make 80%+ of your matches end like that?

  • NoShinyPony
    NoShinyPony Member Posts: 4,570

    Buffing sabotage would lead to slugging. A lot more slugging. Do you like to play these kind of matches as a survivor?

  • fluffybunny
    fluffybunny Member Posts: 2,161
    If you broke down one hook, three would still remain. Back when sabo was permanent, basement was the only safe spot for killer. It wouldn't make any sense for you to be in the basement, either. You get points for being down there cause it's dangerous. There isn't really a point to making basement hooks sabo-able. Just avoid basement. 
  • Kind_Lemon
    Kind_Lemon Member Posts: 2,559
    @Mister_xD said:

    @Kind_Lemon said:

    @Mister_xD said:
    sure.
    but i want something in return!
    what about... survivors cant recover anymore when in dying state, plus slugging is now rewarded with pips.
    thanks.

    ...why would you want this? I mean, if you were a developer, I'd make the deal, but still. What is going on in your life to want that?

    why i would want this?
    simple.
    you cant just nerf slugging into the ground and take away our hooks. if one is to be nerfed, the other one has to be buffed. for balance reasons.
    and let me ask you this:
    would you really make the deal? are you sure you would want that?
    cuz honestly, as a survivor i wouldnt. have you ever been slugged? meaning 5 minutes on the ground until you bled out and died? its no fun.
    take away a killers hooks and thats what he'll do. are you really gonna say yes to a deal that would make 80%+ of your matches end like that?

    This isn’t a badge of honor... And, yes, I have been slugged for the full time, and it was by a billy who didn’t want to hook anybody even when we crawled next to hooks. This is the only time. Sabo is currently used (for solo players) to make the killer walk a little bit further before hooking someone. That’s all. Letting basement hooks be sabotaged would make that be the only counterplay to a basement Hag, Leatherface, and/or Trapper. So, yes, if you were a developer, yes, I would make the above mentioned deal. 

    And no, slugging hasn’t been nerfed. I still use the tactice perfectly well.
  • microwavablefootball
    microwavablefootball Member Posts: 62

    The basement is supposed to be almost 100% death. Allowing them to break is just stupid because it's supposed to be an area in the killer's favor. You wanna deal with basement camping? Start using the signaling using m1 while on a hook.
    (Also slugging was nerfed; you used to be able to recover to 85% heal and now it's 95%.)

  • Mister_xD
    Mister_xD Member Posts: 7,669

    @Kind_Lemon said:
    @Mister_xD said:

    @Kind_Lemon said:

     @Mister_xD said:

sure.

but i want something in return!

what about... survivors cant recover anymore when in dying state, plus slugging is now rewarded with pips.

    thanks.

    ...why would you want this? I mean, if you were a developer, I'd make the deal, but still. What is going on in your life to want that?

    why i would want this?

    simple.

    you cant just nerf slugging into the ground and take away our hooks. if one is to be nerfed, the other one has to be buffed. for balance reasons.

    and let me ask you this:

    would you really make the deal? are you sure you would want that?

    cuz honestly, as a survivor i wouldnt. have you ever been slugged? meaning 5 minutes on the ground until you bled out and died? its no fun.

    take away a killers hooks and thats what he'll do. are you really gonna say yes to a deal that would make 80%+ of your matches end like that?

    This isn’t a badge of honor... And, yes, I have been slugged for the full time, and it was by a billy who didn’t want to hook anybody even when we crawled next to hooks. This is the only time. Sabo is currently used (for solo players) to make the killer walk a little bit further before hooking someone. That’s all. Letting basement hooks be sabotaged would make that be the only counterplay to a basement Hag, Leatherface, and/or Trapper. So, yes, if you were a developer, yes, I would make the above mentioned deal. 

    And no, slugging hasn’t been nerfed. I still use the tactice perfectly well.

    sabo, when done right can be very strong. however, the killer wont just let you wiggle free and escape then. he'll just drop you and let you bleed out, whic his the most boring thing this game has to offer.
    believe me: you do not want to have the majority of your matches like this.
    also, maybe you shouldnt even go to a leatherfaces basement? i mean, hag and trapper ain that big of a problem, you can avoid the traps. but bubba... oh boy. stay out of there.
    and no. thats by far not the only way to counter these killers. again: you will bleed out down there then. cuz as soon as you leave, you get hooked on a close by normal hook.

    and since you didnt want to belive me, that slugging has been nerfed, heres a list:
    -Unbreakable lets you stand back up
    -No Mither lats you stand back up
    -With the Victory Cube, bleeding out gave you 1 out of 4 possible points per survivor. if you were slugging, you would have depiped
    -With the Emblem System, slugging gives no points in devout. combine that with a very poor malicious and chaser score and you will mostly depip
    -survivors now being able to recover up to 95%, allowing them to get onetapped

    not to mention the point penality you get when slugging...

    so yeah. no nerfs at all.

    thats also why i asked for the other buffs in the first place. because on that case, slugging would be very effective again.

    its a circle. killers slug => survivors complain about being slugged => devs rework the sabo mechanic, so killers dont need to slug anymore and punish slugging with bad points + ranking => now survivors complain about the new hooks => devs nerf hooks => killers slug => survivors complain about slugging => and so on.
    and to be honest, i doubt they will continue to nerf the hooks, as neigther they nor us want this to repeat.

  • Peanits
    Peanits Dev Posts: 7,555
    edited January 2019
    Just stay away from the basement. If you sabotaged literally every other hooks, all you gotta' do is not run straight to the basement when you get chased. If you decide to do that or the killer somehow manages to zone you over to it, you messed up. I don't think you should get a free win for making mistakes like that.
  • Shad03
    Shad03 Member Posts: 3,732

    I swear to the [Bad Word] Entity if you even think about touching my Basement Hooks again I will do something... Unpleasant to you. Basement Hooks should remain eternal.

  • TheAngryPickle
    TheAngryPickle Member Posts: 73

    I'll let you break basement hooks in exchange for not being banned when I hold your whole boosted team hostage in the basement forever.

  • Kind_Lemon
    Kind_Lemon Member Posts: 2,559

    @Mister_xD said:

    @Kind_Lemon said:
    @Mister_xD said:

    @Kind_Lemon said:

     @Mister_xD said:

sure.

but i want something in return!

what about... survivors cant recover anymore when in dying state, plus slugging is now rewarded with pips.

    thanks.

    ...why would you want this? I mean, if you were a developer, I'd make the deal, but still. What is going on in your life to want that?

    why i would want this?

    simple.

    you cant just nerf slugging into the ground and take away our hooks. if one is to be nerfed, the other one has to be buffed. for balance reasons.

    and let me ask you this:

    would you really make the deal? are you sure you would want that?

    cuz honestly, as a survivor i wouldnt. have you ever been slugged? meaning 5 minutes on the ground until you bled out and died? its no fun.

    take away a killers hooks and thats what he'll do. are you really gonna say yes to a deal that would make 80%+ of your matches end like that?

    This isn’t a badge of honor... And, yes, I have been slugged for the full time, and it was by a billy who didn’t want to hook anybody even when we crawled next to hooks. This is the only time. Sabo is currently used (for solo players) to make the killer walk a little bit further before hooking someone. That’s all. Letting basement hooks be sabotaged would make that be the only counterplay to a basement Hag, Leatherface, and/or Trapper. So, yes, if you were a developer, yes, I would make the above mentioned deal. 

    And no, slugging hasn’t been nerfed. I still use the tactic perfectly well.

    sabo, when done right can be very strong. however, the killer wont just let you wiggle free and escape then. he'll just drop you and let you bleed out, which his the most boring thing this game has to offer.
    believe me: you do not want to have the majority of your matches like this.
    also, maybe you shouldn't even go to a leatherfaces basement? i mean, hag and trapper ain that big of a problem, you can avoid the traps. but bubba... oh boy. stay out of there.
    and no. that's by far not the only way to counter these killers. again: you will bleed out down there then. cuz as soon as you leave, you get hooked on a close by normal hook.

    and since you didnt want to belive me, that slugging has been nerfed, heres a list:
    -Unbreakable lets you stand back up
    -No Mither lats you stand back up
    -With the Victory Cube, bleeding out gave you 1 out of 4 possible points per survivor. if you were slugging, you would have depiped
    -With the Emblem System, slugging gives no points in devout. combine that with a very poor malicious and chaser score and you will mostly depip
    -survivors now being able to recover up to 95%, allowing them to get onetapped

    not to mention the point penality you get when slugging...

    so yeah. no nerfs at all.

    thats also why i asked for the other buffs in the first place. because on that case, slugging would be very effective again.

    its a circle. killers slug => survivors complain about being slugged => devs rework the sabo mechanic, so killers dont need to slug anymore and punish slugging with bad points + ranking => now survivors complain about the new hooks => devs nerf hooks => killers slug => survivors complain about slugging => and so on.
    and to be honest, i doubt they will continue to nerf the hooks, as neigther they nor us want this to repeat.

    I didn't say slugging didn't receive changes, and the changes you mention all are counters to non-tactical slugging as in the survivors are left on the ground for extended periods of time. By citing all of these so-called "nerfs" you fail to bring up how the most important part of slugging is the splitting up of the team and not the incapacitation of a survivor for a long time. That's what hooks are for, and if you've been slugging an entire team over the course of the match to win, then you've not been using the best part of slugging to it's full potential.

    So, sure, the concept of downing every survivor and having everybody think that that's a win is nerfed, but slugging used with good map awareness has not been touched.

  • Kind_Lemon
    Kind_Lemon Member Posts: 2,559
    edited January 2019

    @Peanits said:
    Just stay away from the basement. If you sabotaged literally every other hooks, all you gotta' do is not run straight to the basement when you get chased. If you decide to do that or the killer somehow manages to zone you over to it, you messed up. I don't think you should get a free win for making mistakes like that.

    I see that I am considering sabotage to be of different use than giving survivors free escapes, mostly because I was not here during the whole sabotage era of the game. And since you've been here for a very long time in the development of the game, I am excited to see if you can share any insight into the starting idea behind sabotage.

    From my understanding, in this time-management game where addons, perks, and items reduce seconds reduce and add seconds, everything needs to be considered in just this aspect at one point or another. Sabotage is no different. In its original state, hooks were gone permanently and the only reachable hooks were the basement ones, as you know. Without a wiggle bar, killers would just have to waste some time by going to a less convenient hook location. However, with a wiggle bar, the amount of time survivors gain by wiggling free is immense. An imbalance began to form because of the wiggle bar, a mechanic implemented to prevent killers from taking every survivor to the basement. Therefore, slugging the entire team became a very popular strategy.

    Since the nerf to sabotage, there was never any consideration about the basement hooks. Since all hooks respawn anyway, I doubt a killer is going to slug someone in the basement if there's another hook nearby just because the basement hooks are temporarily broken. Even if the survivors were to run into the basement after hooks had been sabotaged, when four hooks come back simultaneously, there's nothing any survivor can do.
    I'm curious if @Peanits , you know anything about the developer decision that made hooks the way they are today.

    Edit: Spacing

  • NekoGamerX
    NekoGamerX Member Posts: 5,292

    reading all these comment sounds like both side want unfair game like > @Mister_xD said:

    @Kind_Lemon said:

    @Mister_xD said:
    sure.
    but i want something in return!
    what about... survivors cant recover anymore when in dying state, plus slugging is now rewarded with pips.
    thanks.

    ...why would you want this? I mean, if you were a developer, I'd make the deal, but still. What is going on in your life to want that?

    why i would want this?
    simple.
    you cant just nerf slugging into the ground and take away our hooks. if one is to be nerfed, the other one has to be buffed. for balance reasons.
    and let me ask you this:
    would you really make the deal? are you sure you would want that?
    cuz honestly, as a survivor i wouldnt. have you ever been slugged? meaning 5 minutes on the ground until you bled out and died? its no fun.
    take away a killers hooks and thats what he'll do. are you really gonna say yes to a deal that would make 80%+ of your matches end like that?

    this game meant to be fun for the survivors too or we just there make sure killers have fun?
    also sabotaging hooks or not the basement is the place to go for most killer.I remember a match with a camping leatherface in basement is was like standing in line to get hooked down there

    btw what m1?

  • Cymer
    Cymer Member Posts: 946
    NekoGamerX said:

    reading all these comment sounds like both side want unfair game like > @Mister_xD said:

    @Kind_Lemon said:

    @Mister_xD said:
    sure.
    but i want something in return!
    what about... survivors cant recover anymore when in dying state, plus slugging is now rewarded with pips.
    thanks.

    ...why would you want this? I mean, if you were a developer, I'd make the deal, but still. What is going on in your life to want that?

    why i would want this?
    simple.
    you cant just nerf slugging into the ground and take away our hooks. if one is to be nerfed, the other one has to be buffed. for balance reasons.
    and let me ask you this:
    would you really make the deal? are you sure you would want that?
    cuz honestly, as a survivor i wouldnt. have you ever been slugged? meaning 5 minutes on the ground until you bled out and died? its no fun.
    take away a killers hooks and thats what he'll do. are you really gonna say yes to a deal that would make 80%+ of your matches end like that?

    this game meant to be fun for the survivors too or we just there make sure killers have fun?
    also sabotaging hooks or not the basement is the place to go for most killer.I remember a match with a camping leatherface in basement is was like standing in line to get hooked down there

    btw what m1?

    If Bubba is in the basement: do gens! No one is forcing you down. And if you are hooked, take one for the team and give them as much time as possible!
  • Orion
    Orion Member Posts: 21,675

    "Take away what makes basement hooks unique so that they become useless."

    The answer is, obviously, no.

  • Master
    Master Member Posts: 10,200

    @Kind_Lemon said:

    @Master said:

    @Kind_Lemon said:

    @Master said:

    @Kind_Lemon said:
    Dear devs,

    Since you nerfed sabotage into oblivion and made numerous addons and items worthless, it would be nice if you removed the restriction on sabotaging basement hooks so that Breakdown can work on them.

    Sincerely,
    A fan of your game

    Sabotage has received quite some buffs recently, just fyi

    By "quite some buffs" to sabotage, you mean...what, exactly? Saboteur was modified slightly so that it no longer has the efficiency bonus (balanced out by the overall toolbox efficiency increase), further separating it from (and making it worse than) self care in design style and it adds another 30 seconds to sabotaged things. Those don't seem like "quite some buffs" nor would allowing basement hooks be sabotage-able be a buff. I don't see why the argument that is based on the idea of since something has already been tinkered with it needs no further work is feasible.

    You forgot to mention that it takes 3 times less time to pick someone up from the floor now

    Also you shouldnt forget that slugging gameplayy usually us really boring for the survivors (maybe you like bleeding out, i dont know)

    Are you arguing against allowing Breakdown to destroy a respawnable basement hook by saying that slugging is boring? When was the last time that you were slugged because of Sabotage, much less in the basement? Pray tell, why does slugging play into the change I propose?

    I have been playing during the sabo meta, so I know every well how it feels when you are slugged every game. Trust me, its not sth you shoudl desire as survivor

  • pallet_eater
    pallet_eater Member Posts: 21

    If you want the basement hooks to break, then I want survivors who can't recover. No hook meta was a thing pre-sabo nerf. You had 4 survs with toolboxes and all running sabo and you would have no hooks in 5 minutes, which meant you had only the basement hooks to use. Which then caused every killer to use IG (Iron Grasp) and Agitation just to simply get to a single hook. Which then prompted the nerf to sabo and IG, destroying both metas. We started slugging a lot because we had no hooks to use. Granted this was a while ago. But just painting a picture of why things happened. If you want to not be slugged - then we want hooks.

  • fcc2014
    fcc2014 Member Posts: 4,388

    @Kind_Lemon said:
    Dear devs,

    Since you nerfed sabotage into oblivion and made numerous addons and items worthless, it would be nice if you removed the restriction on sabotaging basement hooks so that Breakdown can work on them.

    Sincerely,
    A fan of your game

    Sabo and toolboxes got a nice buff so stop with it being nerfed. Don't get hooked in the basement. The basement is also suppose to be the closest source to the entity. Monstrous Shrine should be built into the basement and not a perk. The basement should be the most dangerous place for a survivor on the map.

  • powerbats
    powerbats Member Posts: 7,068

    The only way basement hooks should be breakable is if Breakdown is in play but then the hook(s) should auto respawn 15-30 seconds later.

  • Dreamnomad
    Dreamnomad Member Posts: 3,951

    @Acromio said:
    No.
    /thread

    What this guy said. Basement hooks should never be broken. Period. End of story. /end thread

  • Volfawott
    Volfawott Member Posts: 3,893
    Or here is a better idea if you want to be able to break hooks with something like breakdown don't get hooked in the basement.
  • Kind_Lemon
    Kind_Lemon Member Posts: 2,559
    @Orion  said:

    "Take away what makes basement hooks unique so that they become useless."

    The answer is, obviously, no.

    Firstly, that’s not a quote, and I resent the attribution, and while I appreciate your experience in the game, people who have been playing for so long can be very resistant to any type of change that they don’t understand even if it may be benign. Basement hooks have 4 things that make them special. They are listed below in order of greatest to least importance.
    1. The basement hooks are in a cluster so that multiple survivors can be hooked together.
    2. The basement hooks are located in an enclosed area with no pallets or windows readily available within a short distance (have to go up stairs).
    3. The basement hooks are able to be blocked off from the rest of the map by a killer's body-blocking.
    4. The Basement hooks do not break when survivors die on them. (can't be sabotaged, etc.)

    Dreamnomad said:

    @Acromio said:
    No.
    /thread

    What this guy said. Basement hooks should never be broken. Period. End of story. /end thread

    To many of you, who either remember the days when basement hooks were the only hooks on the map or simply resent change that you perceive as threatening; it's not an intrusion into your power as killer. Allowing  basement hooks to be sabotaged won't bring back the sabotage meta, nor will it make it impossible to hook a survivor in the basement. If there are survivors in the basement sabotaging hooks, very few of them would get out once they are caught inside as the first hook goes down. The only thing this will do is make saboteur and/or Breakdown a perk that could prevent a survivor from getting the back hook and saving themselves a couple of seconds in their next escape from the basement. I also am not suggesting basement hooks break when a survivor dies.

    In short, there is no strong argument against allowing basement hooks to be sabotaged. All hooks have gained the reviving capabilities of basement hooks, and I am only giving sabotage more use in whatever situations a survivor may be. Again, why would a survivor waste time sabotaging the back basement hook instead of doing gens unless they are as hungry for new adventure and purpose as I am?

    I'm really curious as to what your responses are.

    P.S. I don't really like the current wiggle mechanic if anyone asks. The whole thing with survivors wiggling free if the killer wasn't even going to the basement is iffy and caused a lot of problems for this game's development.
  • Kind_Lemon
    Kind_Lemon Member Posts: 2,559
    @fcc2014 fcc2014 said:

    @Kind_Lemon said:
    Dear devs,

    Since you nerfed sabotage into oblivion and made numerous addons and items worthless, it would be nice if you removed the restriction on sabotaging basement hooks so that Breakdown can work on them.

    Sincerely,
    A fan of your game

    Sabo and toolboxes got a nice buff so stop with it being nerfed. Don't get hooked in the basement. The basement is also suppose to be the closest source to the entity. Monstrous Shrine should be built into the basement and not a perk. The basement should be the most dangerous place for a survivor on the map.

    While you seem to share some agreements with my personal opinions about how the basement in general works, you also have some conceptions about monstrous shrine that don't pertain to the discussion. Addressing your claim that sabotage has been buffed, if you are looking at the history of sabotage, when toolboxes had this penalty introduced and sabotage was permanent, this rendition of sabotage has not been "buffed" from the original concept. Additionally, sabotage was an integral part of the game, only made an issue by constant basement-bound survivors and the wiggle bar. Now it is not, and therefore my comment about all the sabotage-related addons and items being less seen and used stands.

  • fcc2014
    fcc2014 Member Posts: 4,388
    Kind_Lemon said:
    @fcc2014 fcc2014 said:

    @Kind_Lemon said:
    Dear devs,

    Since you nerfed sabotage into oblivion and made numerous addons and items worthless, it would be nice if you removed the restriction on sabotaging basement hooks so that Breakdown can work on them.

    Sincerely,
    A fan of your game

    Sabo and toolboxes got a nice buff so stop with it being nerfed. Don't get hooked in the basement. The basement is also suppose to be the closest source to the entity. Monstrous Shrine should be built into the basement and not a perk. The basement should be the most dangerous place for a survivor on the map.

    While you seem to share some agreements with my personal opinions about how the basement in general works, you also have some conceptions about monstrous shrine that don't pertain to the discussion. Addressing your claim that sabotage has been buffed, if you are looking at the history of sabotage, when toolboxes had this penalty introduced and sabotage was permanent, this rendition of sabotage has not been "buffed" from the original concept. Additionally, sabotage was an integral part of the game, only made an issue by constant basement-bound survivors and the wiggle bar. Now it is not, and therefore my comment about all the sabotage-related addons and items being less seen and used stands.

    You are correct about sabotage is not what it was with hooks not respawning. The game has evolved you can't expect that back. That in it's current gameplay is no fun for either side.
  • Kind_Lemon
    Kind_Lemon Member Posts: 2,559

    @fcc2014 said:
    Kind_Lemon said:

    @fcc2014 fcc2014 said:

    @Kind_Lemon said:

    Dear devs,

    Since you nerfed sabotage into oblivion and made numerous addons and items worthless, it would be nice if you removed the restriction on sabotaging basement hooks so that Breakdown can work on them.

Sincerely,

    A fan of your game

    Sabo and toolboxes got a nice buff so stop with it being nerfed. Don't get hooked in the basement. The basement is also suppose to be the closest source to the entity. Monstrous Shrine should be built into the basement and not a perk. The basement should be the most dangerous place for a survivor on the map.

    While you seem to share some agreements with my personal opinions about how the basement in general works, you also have some conceptions about monstrous shrine that don't pertain to the discussion. Addressing your claim that sabotage has been buffed, if you are looking at the history of sabotage, when toolboxes had this penalty introduced and sabotage was permanent, this rendition of sabotage has not been "buffed" from the original concept. Additionally, sabotage was an integral part of the game, only made an issue by constant basement-bound survivors and the wiggle bar. Now it is not, and therefore my comment about all the sabotage-related addons and items being less seen and used stands.

    You are correct about sabotage is not what it was with hooks not respawning. The game has evolved you can't expect that back. That in it's current gameplay is no fun for either side.

    Certainly; sabotage as it is now is lackluster and difficult for survivors to do while being tedious and annoying for killers to face. What I'm suggesting is not a complete rediscovery of what sabotage means; all I would like is the opportunity to, if a survivor would like, sabotage basement hooks because it wouldn't ever disrupt the flow of the game.

  • Dreamnomad
    Dreamnomad Member Posts: 3,951

    If you wanted to argue that sabotage should be buffed, then I would be open to that discussion. But that isn't what you are arguing for. You are arguing that basement hooks should be able to be sabotaged by survivors. So I'll explain why that is a bad idea.

    The basement belongs to the killer. It is the point of the map where the killer is the strongest. This is a fundamental truth to the game. No matter which map we are talking about, survivors should respect and fear the basement. If survivors could sabotage basement hooks then it changes that fundamental truth. Now survivors could break the hooks and use that as a safe point since the killer won't be able to carry a survivor out of the basement to another hook.

    No scenario should ever exists where a survivor being chased by a killer should run to the basement for safety. If that isn't clear enough for you then I don't know if you can be helped.

  • Kind_Lemon
    Kind_Lemon Member Posts: 2,559
    @fcc2014 said:

    @Kind_Lemon said:
    Dear devs,

    Since you nerfed sabotage into oblivion and made numerous addons and items worthless, it would be nice if you removed the restriction on sabotaging basement hooks so that Breakdown can work on them.

    Sincerely,
    A fan of your game

    Sabo and toolboxes got a nice buff so stop with it being nerfed. Don't get hooked in the basement. The basement is also suppose to be the closest source to the entity. Monstrous Shrine should be built into the basement and not a perk. The basement should be the most dangerous place for a survivor on the map.

    While you seem to share some agreements with my personal opinions about how the basement in general works, you also have some conceptions about monstrous shrine that don't pertain to the discussion. Addressing your claim that sabotage has been buffed, if you are looking at the history of sabotage, when toolboxes had this penalty introduced and sabotage was permanent, this rendition of sabotage has not been "buffed" from the original concept. Additionally, sabotage was an integral part of the game, only made an issue by constant basement-bound survivors and the wiggle bar. Now it is not, and therefore my comment about all the sabotage-related addons and items being less seen and used stands.