Camping and Tunneling
Please punish the people who tunnel and camp its not fun and it's a cheap way for people to get kills and points alot of killer mains will say that both those aren't strategies Please please punish them.
Comments
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They are strategies, despite not being engaging and or fun for survivors/both parties.
And, they are punished via:
- less BP and pip chance for camping.
- Perks, BT and DS being the big examples.
- Less pressure from both in some cases. (Camping = less chance for a 3-4k, potentially not even a 2k. Tunneling = a massive 5 second stun, and no gen pressure if failed, also less category BP and pip chance if failed which is HUGE).
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Those are annoying but slugging is the worst.
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When a lot of killers camp and tunnel it's not strategies it's just gameplay.
And most killers that camp don't care about BP's or pips so really their not being punished.
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How about NO?😅
This is a really bad idea.
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why punish for using an intended mechanic of the game? should survivors be punished for doing gens effectively because it's not fun for the killer?
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If that's how they want to play whatever, but in my opinion the ones that only know how to play like this are the ones that over exaggerate about everything when they go against survivors that know what to do.
They don't know how to loop or mind game, when to drop chase, can't apply pressure, bait out dead hard. All they know how to do is circle around the hook. They never attempt to learn to play better.
And their the reason why gens don't get nerf and killers won't get buffed, but that just my opinion.
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well maybe don't pop 3 gens in 2 mins and maybe the killer might not tunnel or camp
so i guess both sides are equally annoying each other
and one side is always winning
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BHVR are now sending campers and tunnelers to their rooms for half an hour.
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probably cuz he has PTSD from his other games lol
or he's new or just an ass
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That is exactly why killers need to be punished more for doing this. "They are strategies, despite not being engaging and or fun for survivors/both parties."
Yes, technically there are ways to deal with this. But it is neither fun, nor engaging. There are plenty of things that can be described as (not fun), rushing gens may not be fun, but survivors are still engaging with with the gameplay. Doing their objective still allows for the killer to interact with players and still have a match, even if its not "fun." However camping and tunnelling does not allow for this. Survivors can do generators and if done properly 3 survivors can escape. However even if this is the case, one player is mad because he was denied a match and the others are mad because they don't get engage with the killer at all.
And its worse because of the assumption that you get less kills and points. I have done this before, and I would say it depends. For example against a 4man swf where you only start doing this halfway into a match, yes you are likely to only get 1 kill. However camping at 5 generators against a team of solo Q. Due to the inability to communicate, and the time wasted that each player goes to the hook confused as to why nobody has unhooked their teammate, you are actually quite likely go to get 3-4k. I suggest you play leatherface, with corupt, deadlock ruin and undying, or other possible anti gen perks (thrilling tremors) and use a camp and tunnel strategy, but don't facecamp. I think you will be surprised by how effective it is.
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If devs will nerf teabagging, clicky clicky, sure
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If the killer wants to have a boring as f* game, it's their choice. Sucks for whoever's on hook, but it happens. Finish the gens, move on to the next game, and hope they enjoy having fun.
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The "punishments" are woefully insufficient to change behavior. I have literally had a killer say they "don't care about points" lol. It should just be an unsupported way to play and the game should actively discourage it. It reduces the fun and fun is the whole point of any of this. Yes, everyone else can go do gens but then their friend just dies and can't even play. No one wants to do that, so they end up in a false choice scenario where there is no good option, the match isn't fun, and the killer thinks what they are doing is valid because nothing really tells them otherwise.
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This is not even close to equivalent lol. For the game to work in a way where all players can consistently have fun, the killer can't just hook someone and stand there until they die on first hook. It's not an "intended mechanic" lol it's just dumb. No killer main I have ever met who is any good thinks camping a hook is a legit strategy. It is essentially just a trolly, unfun way to play that harms the game as a whole.
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I think this is fair, but the game should provide extra visual cues and feedback to help killers maximize their threat in the match (which almost always means not focusing on a single survivor), and then once that exists so it's easier to be aware, it should actively discourage tunneling through game mechanics.
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This is all the more reason to discourage the behavior actively. It improves the health of the game by nudging those players into a better direction.
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I mainly play survivor and tbh I would glady accept gen speed nerfs if they put in anti-camping stuff
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I definitely agree that this is an issue, especially camping hooks so people die on 1st hook and can't play, but they wouldn't necessarily need to "punish" people for it. I think there should be gameplay mechanics introduced that nudge players away from this behavior, similar to the crows circling a survivor who stays still or hides in a locker too long.
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These players will also have to be willing to lose which their not willing to do. As long as camping and tunneling people out at the start of the match or until their dead gens will never get the nerf speeds that they need.
Killers will never get the buffs they need so there never be any real health for fun matches.
The DEVS will never do anything about camping/gens unless killer players play fair take the loss and prove that there is a problem with killers and gens.
But let face it everyone would rather argue and scream at each other nerf this and nerf that point their finger and say survivor/killer entitlement.
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I totally agree, “tunneling” is literally just a killer downing someone twice in a row or continuing a chase after injuring someone. The vast majority of tunneling complaints are sore losing.
That being said, the devs have mentioned they actively want to find a mechanism to steer killers away from literal face camping where they stand around a hook waiting for survivors to come to them. That’s because that type of gameplay isn’t engaging for anybody - the killer is bored waiting for two minutes with nothing happening, the hooked survivor is obviously not doing anything interesting, and the other survivors if they’re smart are just doing gens until the last moment and then doing a hook trade. I think ideally what the devs want is something more like the Pyramid Head cages where the system is automatically steering the killer toward moving around the map proactively looking for other survivors versus staying in one spot.
So tunneling, not a problem, and neither is zone defense aka “proxy camping” where you defend one half or one third of the map. Just standing in one place though is the thing they want to discourage, they just haven’t found a system to do it yet that they like.
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camping doesn't increase mmr that much contrary to public opinion, i don't see any camping bubba in high mmr.
Tunneling on the other hand, against weak survivors is very effective but also douchey move, you exhaust weak survivors into submission regardless if they run Meta perks or just playing for fun.
In high mmr I would agree Tunneling and Camping is fair but in low mmr where the killer clearly suck and just wants to get 4k all the time, it's a bad habit that entails a lot of stress and would ruin everyone's day.
Unless you're like me who mains weak killers in high mmr cause i like the challenge, don't act like a douche or you'll regret it in the long run.
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This seems true but the effect on MMR (or lack of effect) isn't really the main issue here imo. It's more that it really just hurts the game for lower MMR games when there's nothing actively discouraging camping in some way (like something in the gameplay). Not gaining MMR or superficial "ranks" doesn't seem to change most players' behavior.
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How about where if the killer is camping the hooked survivor for 2 mins the hook breaks and they get the endurance affect like borrowed time and the hook is broken for about 10 mins?
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If the survivor is camped for 2 mins their dead already.
1 minute for each hook phase after the second you're dead.
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With the way the current state of the game is for killers, camping and tunneling are both needed.
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When people say camping and tunneling, I think they mean Face-Camping at 5 gens and Tunneling-off-hook-till-dead at 5 gens. And what people are saying is that these tactics pay off way more than the skill required to use them. Survivors should have a built in way to counter these 2 tactics so the tactics aren't so easy to pull off and the reward matches the skill better.
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I don’t see how you can punish tunneling, maybe there are ways for facecamping.
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I don't think punishment is what is needed. I think giving survivors the ability to counter these strategies instead of leaving them completely helpless against them is what is needed.
Think about it, Borrowed Time and Decisive Strike are the only counters for this. New survivors don't have these counters available to them, even though Killers can use these tactics the second they pick up a killer. Also, both of those counters are behind paywalls, either of bloodpoints or cash in the case of Decisive Strike.
My suggestion would be to build in weaker versions of both into all survivor kits.
- The weaker versions can only be used on 2nd hook.
- The weaker versions can't be used during EGC
- The weaker versions only work if the same survivor hasn't done anything between the 1st and 2nd hook, similar to DS. (So if a survivor is unhooked from the first hook, then instantly downed but another survivor is hooked while he's slugged, then he still gets the weakened version of DS)
This allows regular DS and BT to still be viable and this gives new survivors the ability to counter these tactics. And to top it off, these are both tried and true game design features that work and aren't seen as abusable. It's a win-win all around.
I would also suggest that gen speeds be reduced to compensate, although the only people this would effect are the hard core face-campers and tunnelers-off-hook-till-dead.
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It's an age old problem. Though I want to give my piece on it. First, tunneling is a 'playstyle' it's cheap and frustrating but it can be countered and punished. The same is said for proxy camping. The only issues is that teams who are not swf or a very high mmr group won't have the coordination or game experience to understand how to counter these things, or they don't have the perks for it yet like DS.
What is frustrating, are the killers that face camp and hit you on hook to be toxic or BM. In that situation, the devs have said they do not consider that an intentional gameplay design but have yet to work out a solution to deal with it that doesn't have some sort of flaw.
Common community suggestions are
Increasing gen repair rate if the killer is too close to the hook. This could help, but it would have to be tested and may have some way to abuse it. But it is a common suggestion.
Making kindred base kit and changing Kindred to do something else, or have the effect above. An okay idea I guess? But it would only help non-swf when trying to coordinate a counter which does not really 'fix' the issue
Stopping progression when the killer is near the hook. This was tried and abused heavily by survivors then removed.
My personal suggestion, slow hook progress based on the killers distance to hook. If they are right next to it, 30% slower, if they are like, 10 meters away 20% slower, 15 meters away 15%, etc whatever numbers end up being the most balanced. Makes it harder for survivors to abuse and if they want to camp effectively they have to do it from a distance making it easier to get a save. Alternatively, if this is still abusable then have it so if they are chasing someone near the hook this slowdown could be halved or negated to prevent survivors from trying to abuse it and waste time.
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