Is camping and tunneling now staple in killer matches?

Right. So with Deadlock if you are splitting gens doesn't work b/c it blocks each gen (30 seconds) back to back buying the killer more time to camp (I.E. have enough time) to camp the next person.

Sounds to me like you don't understand how perks work.

Camping and tunneling is the only viable option for killers if they play to win, especially at a good level. If they don't do it they get a gen rush.

Devs have never addressed the game design to allow better gameplay interactions between the killer and the survivors so the gameplay is now frustrating for bot hsides 90% of the time.

Can you support that claim?

LOL support my claim lmao my bad im out of fresh trapper scientific researches. Just because the killer is slow at the beginning of the game doesn't mean he can't get kills in those maps. That map has MANY default vaults and pallets that you can strategically trap or lure to a nearby trap, 2 (or 3? i forgot) houses have default pallets, killer shack and the main building is full of default pallets and one default vault.

A trapper main replied to you as well, you should read it.

So your issue is that new killers come with perks? Most of those aren't meta, and Undying isn't anything like it was on release. Last few survivors have also all gotten good perks. From boon: shadow step and CoH, to flash grenades that can be made almost at will. And let's not forget exponential, which is UB on steroids, and corrective action, which literally stops potato teammates from giving your position away, and it seems lately both sides are eating well at the perk buffet.

Again, back to that bitterness and bias. Killer players didn't do anything. I don't know if you're aware, but maining either side doesn't give you the ability to nerf perks, that's fully on the dev team. If they did "cater to killer players like lapdogs" as you claim, I highly doubt DH would still be in the state it's in 5 years after release. Fact is they don't cater to anyone, they just try the best they can to keep all the plates spinning.

Flashbang is in every survivor build I have. It's a free blind that you don't have to forgo taking a medkit or toolbox in to take advantage of. Boon Shadow step literally cancels out jumpscare Myers, as well as BBQ and any other aura reading perk the killer may have. Not to mention the utility of having scratches hidden. I'm not going to go back and list every other fantastic perk survivors have gotten in the last 4 years, because I have real world ######### to do, so I'll just leave it at this.

You are being ridiculous. Acting like a victim because a single perk was changed, when most of the community as a whole, and clearly the devs as well agreed a change was needed. Blaming people who pick killer for changes the devs made, and furthering the us vs them bullshit that infects this forum like a cancer. Hopefully one day you'll look back at your posts here with a clear head and see the light.

For the record, though it doesn't matter, 80% survivor, 20% killer over here, but I know you enjoy pretending anyone who disagrees with you is just some salty killer main who thinks they deserve a 4k every game or whatever, as that's the toxic bullshit you and those (thankfully) few others who can't handle the idea that they may just be incorrect love to spread.

That's right, I forget you get to decide what perks are worth anything and what ones aren't, just as you've decided that the devs are intentionally trying to make it so that the game isn't fun for 80-90% of their player base by catering to the 5% or so who actually play only killer. Despite logic, facts or what anyone else says, you remain steadfast in your beliefs.

lol we’re putting our own spin now?

I mean it would be if that one scenario was there only scenario out there, which it isn’t.

So how bad is your team if 3 people can't finish at least 1 gen in the time it takes you to lose 2 chases back to back, get carried to the hook, and be put up?

It's ok.

As far as CoH, it's still a bit faster than self care at least, and still works on the whole team, but it's odd thats the route they went when they were given so many options for a good change, including McLean's idea. I think a lot of the reaction is overblown, and like with DS, after a couple of weeks of people saying the sky is falling they'll realize it's still a solid option.

Tunneling and camping? I mean, with camping they've tried a few things, but it always gets so badly abused that they have to revert. Tunneling I honestly can't think of a fix that wouldn't rob the killer of the ability to pick targets, and I don't think taking choices out of the game helps anyone. Even the idea of making BT basekit, while good in theory, I can't help but feel will lead to survivors farming each other for points and doing the dumbest of unsafe unhooks.

Personally I've started to just ignore the survivor meta. I figure which perks go with my natural playstyle (generally altruistic, always down to break a totem) and go from there. I think a lot of the "meta" on both sides is just bullshit that's popular because popular streamers say that it's the best.

Self care would be better for you specifically, (or SI) for your team as a whole, CoH still holds the edge. Also because self care doesn't help your teammates heal you faster, but CoH still does.

Yes. If 3 people can't get a single generator done in all the time it takes to find, hit twice, pick up and hook their teammate, that's absolutely on them. You can claim the killer is playing an "unbalanced" playstyle, but at this point we aren't even talking about camping or tunneling, just the literal time it takes to catch a survivor twice vs fix a single generator once. (As the statement you tried to contradict stated "The first chase always takes around 1-3 gens") Unless you are playing against an instant down killer, you should almost always have the first gen done by the time the first hook happens. If the killer then starts camping, you should have plenty of time to do at least 2 more before your teammate dies, even if you are the literal worst at spotting them.

Your ######### attitude doesn't actually make you correct.

The first chase isn't a "very specific scenario" it's literally the first chase. As in the first time a survivor is chased by the killer in the match. Unless you are playing against basement bubba or afk pig, it's going to happen in the match.

I did follow the conversation. The statement was made

"The first chase always takes around 1-3 gens"

You then said "I mean it would be if that one scenario was there only scenario out there, which it isn’t." In a direct reply to that statement.

Which doesn't actually make much sense, (because again, were talking about the First Chase) but I gathered you disagreed. So I pointed out that if your team can't get at least 1 gen done during the first chase (which again was pointed out by thatonedemoplayer as always taking 1-3 gens) that means your team is bad.

You then tried to turn that into somehow the killer playing unfairly, which again, doesn't make much sense when discussing the first chase, which by definition happens before any tunneling or camping.

So I pointed out again that I am backing up thatonedemoplayer's point that the first chase takes 1-3 gens, and yes, if your team can't get a single gen done during that first chase, that's on them.

Deadlock only takes effect after the first gen is completed, so it doesn't effect whether or not you can do a single gen in that first chase. NWO is an end game perk, so I hope I don't have to explain how that doesn't effect gens being done either. I imagine your back must be sore from moving those goalposts so much, so I hope you are least are having fun doing so.

If that is true. Then why was this the comment you replied to?

"Only if 1 Survivor spawned on Hook, which they don't. The first chase always takes around 1-3 gens, which means Deadlock won't save enough time to get another person"

See. It wasn't even me who implied the first chase takes 1-3 gens. It was another poster, and he didn't imply #########, he straight out said it. What I said (again, directly stated, not implied) is that the first chase should take at least 1 gen. (Which means I'm actually taking the lower number of the range given in the previous comment) now you want to bring in 5 gens and camping, with 2 very specific non meta perks, and we're the ones bringing up "very specific scenarios" really?

I'm not sure you understand what implied means.

Again, I didn't imply anything. I flat out stated that a survivor team should have at least 1 gen completed by the time the first survivor is hooked. I'm still waiting for you to explain how exactly, that is not the case, but it seems you would rather move onto your specific example of camping killers using off-meta end game perks.

I am irrationally upset right now T_T