For pro-Deathslinger nerf people...
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Deathslinger was unjustly nerfed, nothing to compensate beside moving a little fast while aiming. It was never a lose lose scenario, survivor mains just expect every killer to have the same exploitable weakness so they can turn their brains off and camp pallets all game.I guess it’s hard for survivor to crouch behind easy to chain high wall loops
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But is that because their not skilled enough to deal with it, or is it because it's not balanced? I think we know the answer to that. And on the other hand, you can see the opposite with killer nerfs. Apparently Freddy was S tier so he needed his power and all of his add-ons to be made to a garbage, uh I mean, acceptable power level, like letting you hear survivors footsteps or breathing louder. Apparently Wraith was OP because "fast plus invisible equals OP!", so he got everything good about him nerfed. What's the end goal of all that? To make no killers viable? They weren't viable as they were!
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That's where the supposed argument ends most of the time. "Slinger shoot quick so unfair". But the shots connecting don't ever guarantee a down like Huntress's hatchets do, so what do they say to that?
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Why vault a window when you know he can shoot you there? You're giving the killer a free option select. Huntress and Demogorgon can do this too. It's not unique to Deathslinger.
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The difference is in FPS games both parties are actively shooting at each other, one isn't running away from the other
Thought this was pretty obvious
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As you can see, it is controversial. And I'll make another out-of-game comparison: What other game nerfs the characters that aren't S tier? We've already seen multiple people admitting that he wasn't OP or S tier, but that he simply "wasn't fun to go against" aka they don't like to lose, and "he took no skill" which is a baseless cheap shot criticism that can be fired at pretty much any killer. What killers need now more than ever is strength, because survivors are way stronger than the killers, and quickscoping was a form of strength in this killer. The criticism against the unnerfed version of this killer has been overdramatized so hard at this point. One of the OP things that allegedly needs nerfing is Alchemist's Ring and Blight himself. So if that needs a nerf and Deathslinger needed his nerf, are we now saying that pre-nerf Deathslinger was as OP as Alchemist's Ring Blight? That's what it seems like to me.
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Right, but he's got 1 shot, and a direct hit doesn't down you guaranteed. So what's the problem here?
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Yes, but why is having good aim and instant reactions skilless and unfair? Is the definition of skill now up for debate? That's the kind of mind numbing effects DBD has on people, I guess.
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I'mma need you to go back and try again because that argument has so many holes, flaws, and false comparisons.
You can't compare a game where both sides move at the same speeds and have guns to a game where one character moves faster than others and there's only one side that can shoot.
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The comparisons aren't wildly different. I have never seen a game's community so stubborn and unrelenting in their quest to ensure that "You can't compare this game to any other game." You are justifying Deathslinger's nerf by saying I'm wrong.
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Because sometimes you literally have no other options. And yes they can but heres the thing is it takes a lot more skill and prediction for a Huntress to hit her shots then it does for Deathslinger and this is coming from someone who plays him lol. When I play him its cause I get mad so I wanna vent on survivors by playing an unfun killer because as survivor I absolutely despise facing him for this reason. He can erase all his mistakes simply by aiming down his sight for 0.25 seconds
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Any killer can pose a threat just by existing. It can be applied to anyone. Are all killers OP then?
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None of this was necessary. The quickscoping is the strength trade-off he got for his hits not mattering unless he reeled survivors in.
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He can't make split second shots like he could before, which is instrumental in catching survivors at loops. Have you not noticed how much weaker he is in chase?
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So not only was Deathslinger S tier, Monitor is nerf-worthy as well? You are pulling my leg.
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Yeah, it's SOOO hard to beat a good Deathslinger, right? Better than Nurse! Lol.
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What's the counterargument though? Deathslinger was OP because he could kill survivors?
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You are not supposed to trump everything the killer can do at every moment. There SHOULD BE some times where the killer gets you no matter what. If there isn't, how can killers possibly kill survivors?
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I mean if you outplay him several times he should be punished for it not rewarded. If its a fair 'this killer is better than you' you should die but with deathslinger thats rarely the case. Most of the time its "He hit you because there was absolutely nothing that could be done.". Deathslinger doesn't get punished for his mistakes the way other killers are and thats what I hate.
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How is he not punished for his mistakes? How? He shoots and misses, he now has to reload, and the survivor can hold forward. He gets a crazy shot, but because there's an obstacle the survivor somehow gets behind, because they have more control over his chain than he does, he doesn't get the down. And these reload and miss animations are brutally slow and time wasting without those green add-ons to fix them. Y'all honestly make me feel like I'm the crazy one.
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Wait...survivors break your chain? He can hit crazy easy shots and drag someone across killer shack without breaking the chain...you don't even need to do that you just have to sit and wait til a survivor vaults then boom free hit
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simple.
because survivors cannot fight back. this is not CoD.
We cannot kill the slinger, or any killer in the game. simple logic.
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And yet logic can't be found anywhere in the nerf.
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if i were to explain, survivors cannot shot you in the face. the no-scope shot is a broken mechanic that wont allow for survivor to react, and for slingers to bait m1 to m2 is just broken. thats thew logic. if only survivors can shoot killers in the face, i could have won against you many times. thats the logic.
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You have the most accurate and fastest aim in the game.
Huntress still throws slower, and trickster has terrible recoil and requires multiple shots.
Huntress mains don't #########.
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I never said old deathslinger was OP. And I was referring to how good he was at zoning from just existing. Only other killer that comes close is Huntress but she has a wind up time similar to the current deathslinger, which allows for more counterplay.
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I'm fully aware it's controversial, I said that it shouldn't be.
When it comes to game design, you nerf the things that need nerfing and you buff the things that need buffing, any given community tierlist is fully irrelevant. Deathslinger's power design was unhealthy; while he wasn't necessarily overpowered, winning with him was still much harder than other killers, his power forced survivors into lose/lose scenarios without much requirement on the killer's part.
Fun is subjective, obviously, but it should be a baseline touchstone for everyone that a game requires both sides have influence over the outcome. The survivor should have some input in a chase, I'm sure you'd agree on that front?
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Are we now really tyring to justify some broken mechanic by comparing an action game wirh an fps game? OMG, how low can you fall?
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Returning fire has gotta be the dumbest statement ive heard all week. You cant melee strike the killer either. If your playing survivor your signing up to be on the defensive. Even in shooters firing back is not the right choice. Your loadout could be suited medium close so manuvering into better positions and locations is part of overcoming your opponets advantage. Ofc most dbd players couldnt play an fps to save there lives nevermind handle advance concepts beyond loop wall structure.
Actual los blocking is just too complex and dont forget every survivour players favourite word "boring". It works different but it is striaght up wrong to make aiming a ranged charaters attack clunky. You all need to play hunt because it will open your eyes to what actual ranged gameplay looks like. Not this half ass deliberatly clunky game design. To amswer your question on different ms yes there are many fps games with various differing movement speeds.
I'm of the suprisingly small field of players believes that taking ques and aspect from other games despite differences is actually a helpful way to improve your game. If you believe that two different genres have nothing to learn from each other you are actively sabotaging the god damn game. Please do your homework first before posting nonesense.
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"What other game nerfs the characters that aren't S tier?"
Tones of games out there and because I only really play Apex Legends and For Honor as my other main games, I can only use them as examples. Hell in For Honor characters that were D tier were nerfed in the past, and some weaker characters that had an annoying part of their kit nerfed but was later put onto characters that were much stronger to begin with.
Apex constantly changes up the meta. Guns and characters that were meta a year ago are possibly obsolete nowadays, al though the game doesn't suffer from much of a balance issue
If we want to go back on the original subject of non S tier characters getting nerfed I think the perfect example is Lifeline. Basically Lifeline's whole thing is her D.O.C (Drone of Compassion). Her passive is simply able to go over to a downed teammate and she deploys the drone and it automatically revives that downed teammate, well back in the day it used to have a shield that would project it self in the direction Lifeline was looking at. Even with this shield she was considered B or A tier at best since another Character simply did her job but better. Yet they still went in the direction of nerfing Lifeline.
Now, back to Dead by Daylight and Slinger, his quickscoping took skill. People who said otherwise are just talking out their ass. How ever it was definitely unfair. Since he provided literally no feedback of when he was going to do it. The difference with Huntress, Pyramid Head, Trickster, Nemesis and Artist, is they all have a clear indication of when they're readying their power, both with either a distinct audio queue or visual queue. Deathslinger was the outlier, not having either of these. (Don't tell me that a .2 second animation was a visual queue, no one in this world can react to that). Having no feedback of when Slinger was readying his power was just frustrating as you had no idea when he was going to shoot and you had no indicator.
This has been a common theme, being on the receiving end of having no feedback of when something is going to happen just doesn't feel fair
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You dont need feedback to know the guy with a gun is going to shoot you #########. If you are positioned in a zone where his limited range shot can hit you then you have already failed to break los on a slower killer. There has been other shooters with this crap level of clunky aimming and suprise suprise they are despised. What is slingers concept suppose to appeal to if he is not designed to attact the shooter player. Imagine in apex if your character took the same time to aim as slinger there would be riots.
He is designed to be slower to compensate for his ranged ability thats the god damn point. He has one shot so he gets punished hard for missing. I could apply your assinine logic to a horror monsters spotting you with giant alerts and flashing icons but that would you know be excessive and unnecessary. The sensation that your out in the open and under threat of being shoot and reeled is perfectly normal having icons immediatly tell you when hes going to shoot would be a silver bullet that would kill any chance of success when playing slinger.
If a slinger is on top of you and you cant put distance between him and you thats on you. You messed up and let him close that gap so his chances of missing is now non existent. All slinger needed was a cooldown or slowdown period when dropping his gun. But clearly none of you give a damn because better a character is nerfed to a point where it alienates all his playerbase. Congrats.
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Youre making it sound like the perfect scenario for Survivor and you know damn well that isnt possible every time
Not to mention Slinger is still faster than a Survivor and had a smaller TR to close the gap before Survivors even knew he was coming
When he is in chase as well he is more than in a comfortable range for him to be a threat
I didnt want slinger to be put in the state he's in, but I didnt want him to stay in the state he was either
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There's other things in the game where survivor reactions don't matter. Doctor's static blast, Legion's frenzy, Victor's pounce. Are those all OP, just because survivors can't react and it's actually in the killer's favor?
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Yes, I agree, because survivors do have input in chase against him! It felt good taking him on a long chase but still going down anyway, because I knew he was weak but had potential. But now that he's been nerfed he has no potential. Why does nobody value killer viability? You would think that since Nurse and Blight are the only viable ones, the others would be left alone. But no, we need to nerf the weaker killers as well so there's even less variety. People might be able to humor using non-S tier killers at the top level just for fun because there's a small chance they'll win, but they'll just stop trying that once they realize it's pointless. Survivors can beat almost every killer in chase simply through memorization of how to run loops, and Deathslinger came close to countering that. That's unhealthy design though, can't have that!
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He doesn't take more skill, he's just egregious to use and has more counterplay. Now you're punished no matter what you do, because you can't aim in fast enough to get quick shots, survivors are too hard to hit if you just hold it out, and the hitbox for his harpoon is pitifully small. This killer has nothing.
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Yeah, I guess it was broken, because Nurse was S tier and Slinger was S+, right?
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So, we're going to glide past everything in that message about killer viability or the current state of Deathslinger, because none of that is even slightly relevant to the point at hand. I agree that he currently needs work since the nerfs, while justified, weren't offset well enough and he feels clunky to play. No arguments there.
So, moving on: Survivors did have input in the chase, except for when he decided to employ the ADS fake quickscope tactic. In those scenarios, even when you're lucky enough to actually have something to break line of sight (which isn't a guarantee), you basically have two options; run straight and thus be an incredibly easy target, or juke side to side and thus lose distance, allowing him to catch up for an M1. That's bad design. Both of your major options will lead to getting hit, and your only hope is for the Deathslinger to miss.
Did that make him OP? God no, he was a weak killer before and he's a weak killer now- his strength hasn't even changed that much, he just feels awful now. But what it did make him was unhealthy.
None of this is a defence of his current state, but we gain nothing from pretending that there weren't serious, real issues to be corrected with how he was before. Survivors need agency in the chase, and Deathslinger denied that agency- not in the situational way, like how some killers can engineer specific situations where a survivor can't avoid getting hit, but in the sense that all he required was to be in chase and he could guarantee a hit.
Yes, it required skill, but there are more things that matter in game balance than whether something requires skill. You weren't outplaying your opponent when you used the ADS fake quickscope tactic, because your opponent didn't have any input in the situation.
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Thank you! These guys knew what they were signing up for when they picked survivor. Of course they're not getting a gun, too. And this idea that we can't compare DBD to any game out there is just ridiculous. Fighting games, for example, get compared to other games outside their genre all the time because they represent skill and mindgames. You could even compare them to DBD. If there's no mindgames for the killer, especially since the community nerfs any killer that does have mindgames, does survivor really take that much skill?
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No, you did want him condemned to a sorry, weak state. Because anything less than what he originally was is always gonna be weaker when we know darn well he actually needed buffs.
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I don't know where this "it's skillful so there's no problem" idea comes from.
Sure, if you could reprogram the game to play Snake with the survivors before killing them and uninstalling their games via a series of inputs requiring computerized precision at highly specific intervals, that'd be real darn skillful.
It also could never, ever, ever see the light of day, ever, period, because this is a multiplayer game.
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Because this game suffers from a lack of skill in all areas, so when you nerf every killer that takes skill, you only make the problem worse. If a killer isn't OP, they don't need to be nerfed. These nerfs to a weak killer came in before Leatherface's ability to camp someone to death off one down was even considered for nerfing. No clue where you're going with Snake.
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I didnt want him to be "condemned to a sorry weak state", I do want you to drop the act tho
They could of easily made his power more interactable for both sides while keeping viable, after all the stronger killers have powers that allow outplays and mindgames for both sides.
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Nurse Blink from 10m away = enough time to react. Slinger quickscoping from 10m = no reaction time at all. This is common sense, complaining that it got removed is a waste of time.
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Who is Deathslinger?
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Legion just got his fatique reverted from 4->3 seconds after 3 years. April 2019 was when he got changed. Given at the pace that dev change things, You'll probably need to wait like minimum 2 years for deathslinger to get changes/revert.
"If there's no mindgames for the killer, especially since the community nerfs any killer that does have mindgames, does survivor really take that much skill?"
I think we both know answer to that question.
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Sorry, people don't feel like being a target. DBD is designed for melee combat. Leave the ranged weapons to the cringe lords
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Thank you - I needed the laugh.
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To be fair you could make the same argument with huntress.
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Yes that why survivors vault faster and can use pallets as periods of respite to get greater distance. Also he has a damn range limit of a measely 18 meters with a snapable chain. But still people moaned and complained till his key selling point was butchered. Even then his gun has pathetic muzzle velocity. I reckon the derringer in hunt has more speed.
I ve run the best huntresses and slingers and i can tell you every action they take that buys you time is time i exploited to get distance i always pathed in directions that left me antoher loop close by and avoided structures i know they have an advantage at. Whenever i was caught they either spent several gens worth of time chasing or i messed up my pathing.
Also lets drop the act we all know 90% of the players here wanted slinger to get gutted and had zero to no interest in actually helping him. Not a single hint of a suggestion on what to do with him crossed there mind. How to compensate slinger and make him fun still to play was never anyones goal. If it was basic ideas like a charged exposed shot, multiple rounds in the chamber, extended range, faster muzzle velocity. Basic simple ideas. But no apprently the dbd community dosent believe in patches that give and take theyd rather see a killer or survivor gutted. Unforgiveable and frankly disgusting that people look at those changes and think it was still a good patch.
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