Every time we try to make killer viable, attacks and nerfs ensue

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Comments

  • Entinaty
    Entinaty Member Posts: 165

    Honestly the developers should be the ones to actually be bearing the brunt of the criticism due to not developing solo queue properly. Adding the icons to show that a person is doing a gen or being chased or what not is a good first step but it can be improved upon. Why not add a pinging system to the game? Why not add simple dialogue options that give simple messages such as "heal me" or "i'll go for the save"? It may not be perfect but it should improve the QOL for solo queue at least a little. I mean if other games such as Identity V and Apex Legends have some form of these systems then I find it odd that it can't be implemented by the front runner of this particular genre, Dead by Daylight, in 2022.

    While I find it important to ingratiate players into the game and community I don't believe that it is wise to design the entire aspect of the game around newer players or casual players only. For instance, take a game developer like From Software that is known for creating notoriously difficult games. They always have a certain standard and those who play them either rise to the challenge, struggle a lot and then eventually break through or struggle and realize that this particular genre of game may not be for them. DBD needs to also set this type of standard so that we as players know if we are falling below it, meeting it or exceeding it.

    I find that having full transparency about SBMM may go a long way to fixing the overall issues of the game. For example, how about a system that sets a standard MMR for all Killers in the game and then matches it to the Survivor teams MMR and Killer's MMR are within the same ranking the Killer's stats remain the same but if the MMR of the team is higher than the Killer has certain cooldowns and/or addons enhanced to compensate and if lower have addons/cooldowns limited. May not be perfect but at least one idea.

  • Xyvielia
    Xyvielia Member Posts: 2,415

    If coms are added to solo q they most likely will be optional; players won’t be forced to use them, and would be able to turn them off.

    If all survivor players were forced to use coms, then solo wouldn’t have to be removed.

  • danielmaster87
    danielmaster87 Member Posts: 9,090

    No, don't give ground. You have a great understanding of killer.

    Spirit's nerfs were WAY out of line. She needed her stand-still mindgame taken away because it was stupid, and that's about it. Make her scream when she goes into her phase or something, and that's all we'd need to know that she's not just standing still. She still had good, healthy gameplay otherwise, to play as and to vs, because it promoted mindgames using sound, which survivors are usually in advantage of anyway. You could do so much to confuse her even while injured. Double back, fast vault x2, slow vault, slow vault then fast vault, crouch, crouch then double back, start walking, fake the double back, double fake the double back, use Iron Will, use Diversion, use Quick and Quiet. But nobody wanted to use all the tools they had at their disposal, and instead complained til Spirit got nerfed to death. Those who say Spirit is still S tier/top 3 are kidding themselves.

    People claimed* that Freddy was so OP before his nerf that he was S tier/top 3, and then he got nerfed because of that, because he "took no skill". I found the whole ordeal hilarious. Still do. He took loads of skill, being an M1 killer and all. He had slowdown similar to Clown's which he could preset at loops for later, which caused him to catch survivors off guard when they'd run to those supposedly strong loops. He could also use them for info if they were triggered from afar. He could also use them on the fly, and still can, by setting up a snare at each side of the loop, wait for the survivor to step in one, double back so they'd have to go through the other as well, and that would barely give him the hit before they got to the pallet. He could teleport to gens, or fake that he was teleporting, which caused the survivors to respect him or give a free hit when he actually did tp. It was mostly used to stop gens from getting done, by teleporting their and using Pop or letting Ruin do its regression. Survivors being Oblivious while in dream was/is nice. His slowdown add-ons were also nice, even though they were a mere 5% slowdown.

    Now, Freddy is a complete joke, and he wasn't that strong to begin with. His snares were reduced to 5, which pretty much stops him from being able to set them preemptively at key loops, because placing more than that limit would undo the first one placed. That forces him to only use them on the fly, which a survivor could and can still counter by just running away from the loop when he starts doing that, or just drop the pallet early. Dream pallets were also reduced in number, which was a stupid decision that Almo clearly had input on as he said, and I quote: "Freddy's pallets are stronger than his snares" which shows he had no understanding of Freddy. Freddy's clocks being buffed is huge for survivors, because his snares/pallets/Oblivious don't even do anything to them unless they're asleep, and the yellow meter that the new clocks put on survivors causes them to reach sleep later, and become immune to getting put in the dream world even when Freddy hits them. His slowdown add-ons and most of his other good add-ons are also gone, now replaced with the most useless crap imaginable, like "survivors' footsteps are louder while in dream" and "survivors' gen repairs are louder when in dream". Those are the most insulting change of them all. And this was all unjustified. Freddy was not this unbeatable force that survivors made him out to be. Did he slow down the game a lot? Possibly, with the right perks. Did survivors beat him anyway, in the same way they can beat Hag despite how drawn out the game may be? Absolutely. Pre-nerf Freddy may be the most overrated killer of all time, and he has pre-nerf Wraith and Clown as contenders.

    Try to hear out these survivor mains arguments if you wish, but do not be fooled by them. They do not understand anything I've said above, even when they themselves have played those killers.

  • danielmaster87
    danielmaster87 Member Posts: 9,090

    My mentality still stands that if you balance for the advanced players, when those casuals start learning and eventually enter the advanced player community, they will reap the benefits of a balanced game. It requires experience and skill to do well with either role, not just advantage.

    In a way, it's similar to the difficulty of Dark Souls. They need to set a standard and actually be consistent with it, and consider "Would competitive players appreciate this or say it's catering to casuals?" Because right now they're all over the place. From patch to patch they're changing direction, saying in one patch, "We want to balance for all players, not just the top .01%" but in the next patch, "This is too strong at top level, so we're nerfing it." There is zero consistency.

  • Marigoria
    Marigoria Member Posts: 6,090

    I don't main Spirit but I'm sure @TheGannMan can share more if they think Spirit is gutted or not since they main her.

    I go against blight and nurse 90% of my matches because I only play crossplay off, also as a solo player. I don't have a problem with facing either of those at all, the same way I didn't have a problem with facing Spirits before, because I don't mind strong killers, but I do mind getting paired with team mates who are below average.

    Only problem Spirit had for me was not having a sound notification when using her power when she was close to you, everything else about her was fine with me. And like I said in my post, this is not a "survivors to blame" problem. The same way when Billy and Freddy were nerfed more than what was being asked for, is a "survivors did this" problem. It's a BHVR problem for overkilling nerfs.

    You are doing a "us vs them" by implying that people who play survivor and disagree with you have a skill issue. Opinions =/= skill, gameplay = skill.

  • Xyvielia
    Xyvielia Member Posts: 2,415

    Players shouldn’t be forced to use coms.

    If coms are able to be turned off in solo q, then the whole team may not be communicating, and the game would be less effective than a full SWF communicating with each other.

  • RakimSockem
    RakimSockem Member Posts: 1,982

    The game is already balanced and unviable killers are a myth.

  • JamnJelly
    JamnJelly Member Posts: 139

    You're telling me characters like Trapper and Clown are viable in higher mmr?

  • JamnJelly
    JamnJelly Member Posts: 139

    Then why aren't they seen higher up?

    It's not a skill issue, it's a balancing issue. Are you saying that those two are in the same tier as plague or blight?

  • RakimSockem
    RakimSockem Member Posts: 1,982

    Laziness in the DBD community as a whole. Why play a character that's harder to use when you have speedy characters that can zoom across a map or characters that make healing useless?

    And I'm confused by that last comment because you said Plague and Blight and Blights is League's above the Plague. The only killer stronger than Blight is the Nurse herself for her ability to go through walls and pallets and even that BARELY keeps her above Blight's busted ass.

    Plague doesn't go in the S tier with them but she's still strong.

    Clown isn't too far behind Plague in my opinion as his 1 v 1 is one of the strongest among the killers which allows him to shut down chases early.

    Trapper is maybe a step behind Clown but his strength is defending positions so if you can get a strong area of the map trapped, he can start a stream roll of his own or at least, slow survivors down immensely if they have to sabo traps every time they want to go for a basement save for example

  • GannTM
    GannTM Member Posts: 10,866

    I think I’m about over trying to tell people that Spirit is still strong, because people won’t listen. Also, I’m letting Spirit go for the time being.

  • Chilli_man2400
    Chilli_man2400 Member Posts: 2,893

    It’s funny you mentioned that. On the Mobile version they added survivor stuff that should be in the base game. On the lobby screen you can see what perks the survivors are using before the game begins and during the match there is a Ping system.

    also off topic the Bus on auto haven is not even in the mobile version they know it’s a god awful loop so they straight up removed it

  • Bladeisbest
    Bladeisbest Member Posts: 308

    I agree with all of this. I always go back to this interview Mathieu did with Paulie and King about many different things. Mathieu straight up says around 19:00 that they use to try to balance everything, but it became too monumental of a task so they stopped worrying about it. They are talking about Survivor/Killer perks at this part of the interview, but for all we know that statement goes far deeper. Something to think about.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGzXiWbviYg

    - Skip to 19:00 if you want to hear the man himself discuss why BHVR stopped caring as much about game balance to embrace the more chaotic side of DBD...

  • Tiufal
    Tiufal Member Posts: 1,252

    Making killers viable doesnt mean you have to run the most tryhard addons and jerk-like builds. You should instead have to learn how to master those characters. There are quite a decent amount of players that main one or more characters that are considered weak, and have almost good times with them. If you wanna play variety killer you have to spend much more time in learning them or just accept that you wont be able to play them properly, and that people will call you out if youre playing jerk-like to compensate your false idea on havin easy wins as killer.

  • danielmaster87
    danielmaster87 Member Posts: 9,090

    I reject this entirely. I don't believe that "If you just play good enough, you can beat any team using any killer." Some killers literally aren't strong enough. The gens are too fast for them. Why else do you see 2 killers only at high MMR?

  • danielmaster87
    danielmaster87 Member Posts: 9,090

    Wrong, wrong, wrong. I am not the killer Sluzzy. My opinions are not even that killer sided. I just call things how they are, because nobody else does. When you're facing bad survivors, then and only then do you have an easy game as killer. Everything else you have to sweat, even when the survivors aren't playing well themselves, because they mostly beat you through gens, not chases. Believe me, I've tried to face camp or tunnel someone from the get-go, just to see how unfun and OP it is against the survivors, and it always results in me losing because the survivors I go against aren't babies.

    BHVR doesn't have a problem with me, they have a problem with not understanding their own game. MMR doesn't hurt the game in any way. We miss old matchmaking because it placed us against babies all the time who we could beat. MMR is revealing all the imbalances in the game to us, and the devs are just gonna do nothing with that info. I hate that MMR puts me with bad teammates, but at the end of the day my pain comes from them being bad more than anything else. On the flip side the survivors I face are always strong, not even decent sometimes, just quick on gens and that's it, but that's enough to beat any killer.

  • danielmaster87
    danielmaster87 Member Posts: 9,090

    My viable seems to be different from everyone else's viable for some reason. Viable means having the potential to beat any team. Only Nurse has that potential. If we aren't making killers strong enough to beat any team, even when the killer plays well, we're basically throwing our hands up in air when we play them and say, "Welp, looks like I'm just gonna have to lose this one." That's what it's like.

    Playing like a jerk means playing efficient, something you're forced to do but that survivors claim is toxic. Real toxicity is things you don't have to do to win, like tbagging and flashlight clicking. People love defending those "strategies". I don't deserve to be sent "gg ez" or tbags because I had to camp in endgame while using Clown, as opposed to walking away and giving a free escape. It's literally all I could do at that point.

    And easy wins on killer? Please. I haven't had an easy win on killer in forever. Using the strongest stuff is still a sweat fest against survivors who know what they're doing. When I lose in solo queue, those killers are the ones that have easy wins, because there's no reason for the mistakes my teammates make over and over, or the inefficiency.

  • ThatOneDemoPlayer
    ThatOneDemoPlayer Member Posts: 5,623
    edited April 2022

    The devs balance it like it's four 1v1s happening at the same time so it must be a 1v1 game