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Med-Kits' inconsistency with Self-Heals.
Hello, it's me again.
I've learned that Med-Kits don't follow rules of other Self-Healing sources. Mainly, lack of Self-Heal penalty. Let's do the Maths to see what I mean.
(1+(sum of positive modifiers)) * (1+negative modifier 1) * (1+negative modifier 2)...
Seconds to complete action = Charges required for action / Charges per second
Med-Kit:
(1 + (0)) * (1 - 0) = 1 * 1 = 1 c|s
16/1 = 16s
16s Self-Healing from any source (original Circle of Healing for instace):
(1 + (1)) * (1 + (-0.5)) = 2 * 0.5 = 1c|s
16/1 = 16s
Technically it's the same, right? At base. But the issue comes when you consider Healing boosts.
Med-Kit with Botany Knowledge:
(1 + (0.33)) * (1 - 0) = 1.33 * 1 = 1.33 c|s
16/1.33 = 12.03s
Similar to original Circle of Healing:
(1 + (1 + 0.33)) * (1 - 0.5) = 2.33 * 0.5 = 1.1(6) c|s = 1.17 c|s
16/1.17 = 13.68s
This is rather interesting isn't it?
The first is faster than other. How's it possible? Because the latter one has Self-Heal penalty which basically cuts down the strength of buffs by half.
Lemme show an example with more possible healing buffs.
Current Emergency Med-Kit with Botany Knowledge, Circle of Healing (post-PTB), Desperate Measures (3 people injured is more realistic with this):
(1 + (0.5 + 0.33 + 0.5 + 0.42)) * (1 - 0) = 2.75 c|s
16/2.75 = 5.(81)s = 5.82s
"Re-done Med-Kit" (as I would like to call it) with buffs:
(1 + (1 + 0.5 + 0.33 + 0.5 + 0.42)) * (1 - 0.5) = 1.875 c|s
16/1.875 = 8.5(3)s = 8.53s
Ok, almost 3s difference, not that big at first glance but still a change. Let's consider best case scenario with one Med-Kit add-on (other is Syringe):
Emergency Med-Kit with Medical Scissors (not enough charges for Abdominal Dressing) + Botany + 4xDesperate + someone's Circle of Healing and Leader + Resilience + Spine Chill:
(1 + (0.5 + 0.2 + 0.33 + 0.56 + 0.5 + 0.25 + 0.09 + 0.06)) * (1 - 0) = 3.49 c|s
16/3.49 = 4.58s
"Changed Med-Kit" with buffs:
(1 + (1 + 0.5 + 0.2 + 0.33 + 0.56 + 0.5 + 0.25 + 0.09 + 0.06)) * (1 - 0.5) = 2.245 c|s
16/2.245 = 7.13 s
Still a difference but we haven't checked how healing de-buffs work with this.
To decrease Maths a bit, let's take more normal scenario with only normal Med-Kit, Botany Knowledge, Circle of Healing and Sloppy Butcher (Mangled only because we assume heal is not interrupted)
Current:
(1 + (0.5 + 0.33)) * (1 - 0.2) = 1.46 c|s
16/1.46 = 10.9589s = 10.96s
"Augumented":
(1 + (1 + 0.5 + 0.33)) * (1 - 0.2) * (1 - 0.5) = 1.132 c|s
16/1.132 = 14.13s
Yikes, this is worrying. A lot. More than 3s difference here.
If you want to check every possible scenario please don't be shy to do so. I think after reading this you should know what I want to be changed.
Make Med-Kits apply 100% Self-Healing buff with 50% Self-Heal penalty.
It would make Healing stuff more equal across the board and easier to change without having to worry as much about Med-Kits breaking this beyond cosmos.
Hope you didn't mind reading this post. Bye!
Comments
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...So what are you saying?
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Make Med-Kits apply 100% Self-Healing buff with 50% Self-Heal penalty.
Basically, you would heal like if you had a CoH on you if I understand correctly.
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Med-Kits need to be adjusted to today's Self-Healing standards.
Yep. And would make all Self-Healing buffs weaker through that route. Meaning Self-Healing would've been less efficient with them while Altrustic would've become better without touching base Med-Kits, only stacked Med-Kits.
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I'm... so confused. Not by what you're saying, but was this actual news to people?
The whole reason medkits are busted is they allow a survivor to heal themselves at the same time a teammate would. In terms of efficiency, it's the same as an 8-second altruistic heal minus the travel time a teammate would need to get from place to place. The entire reason self-care has the 50% penalty is to stop it from being more/less efficient than a teammate healing you unless you bring perks.
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What they’re asking for is essentially a nerf to medkits that will only matter sometimes and won’t always make a difference.
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No. Healing with medkits should be done at normal speed. They are items that you have to use with limited charges.
The self heal penalty only applies to self healing WITHOUT a medkit. That was the entire purpose of the Self Care nerf years ago.
Medkit = normal speed self heals.
No medkit (i.e. Self care, CoH) = penalty.
This is a pretty simple concept and should not be adjusted for any reason
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I understand that you're asking for a nerf, but there's no supposed inconsistecy.
The speeds at which you heal yourself or others via med-kits were adjusted when they were reworked. They work as intended. Arguing that they're too powerful is a different topic.
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I see your point!
The current issue we are looking at is on two fronts:
- Medkits do not, by merit, align with the consistency set forward by perk healing buffs.
- Medkits, as they are now, are played in the meta as selfish items only, which play very little for a team. (It is more efficient to use a medkit on yourself in any situation than have an ally help you, even if [ESPECIALLY if] they intend to use their own medkit to speed up the heal)
If they change it so that Medkits added a flat 0.8 modifier to healing - allowing self-heal to be done at 80% speed, making it 20 seconds over 16, while also increasing altruistic healing by adding a flat 0.8 to make it 1.8 and increase team healing by the same amount - medkits will heal you in 20 seconds (Saving the entire team 12 seconds for not needing to aid you, still faster than 32) while aiding an ally will be done in 8.8 seconds (almost half total speed)
This also makes it so that a 20 charge medkit is good for 1 self heal, or 2 buffed ally heals.
Self-healing with a medkit saves the team 12 seconds, healing an ally saves a total of 16. Medkits retain their viability as a self-sustaining tool, but are now more attractive to be used in teams.
If the charges are not died to speed, but are used as 'fuel' for the item - it can allow for Medkits to become vastly superior for altruism. While capable of dealing out quick heals.
Survivors will be forced to come together and utilize their tools in order to get the most out of their kit - while they save time on the top, it takes a bit more coordination and thought to use effectively.
Instead of medkits being the item you bring so that after looping the killer for 30-odd seconds and they leave, so you sit at a pallet and heal yourself. Or even sit next to a generator and heal yourself as your allies work on it. Now, rather, you COULD spend 20 seconds healing yourself at the pallet, or you can save the medkit for an ally for much better efficiency.
This also places a soft buff on perks like Empathy that are basically dead in the meta. Medkits are useful to keep yourself topped up, but they are much better when you seek out wounded teammates and get help from well equipped survivor buddies.
Here's a general sense of what I mean, just to set an idea:
Medkits – All medkits have unique models. They have increased healing rate on other survivors. 20 charges, takes 20 seconds to heal self by default - +80% healing speed on other survivors. New Iridescent medkit that has unique tradeoffs. Charge expenditure does not increase with speed.
§ Brown Medkit: 80% self-heal speed, 20 charges, +80%r healing on others. (1 self heal, 2 allies | 20s/~9s)
§ Yellow Medkit: 80% self-heal speed, 40 charges, +80% healing on others. (2 self heals, 4 allies | 20s/~9s)
§ Green Medkit: 200% self-heal speed, 8 charges, +100% healing on others (1 speedy self heal, 1 quick ally heal | 8s/8s)
§ Purple Medkit: 80% self-heal speed, 32 charges, +200% healing on others (1.5 self heal, 4 fast ally heals | 20s/~6s)
§ Iridescent Medkit: +150% to healing on self and others, 22 charges. (2 self heals, 3.5 fast ally heals | ~10s/~6s)
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