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Stop tunneling the first person out the game
I'm sorry, but this is getting beyond irritating. Every match I play the killer tunnels the first person out immediately, and half of the time that person is me. DS doesn't even help because they'll just take the hit and go straight after you again. And the funny part is that the killer doesn't tunnel anyone else, just the first person. I would like to have a chance to actually play the game, thank you.
Comments
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It's because the devs don't want to balance for high mmr. They force tunneling to be necessary.
I would advocate for better game balance to fix this.
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I get that, but this is almost every match. It gets annoying after a while and makes playing survivor just miserable. I'm just trying to get simple rift challenges done, but can't really do that when the killer decided to tunnel the whole game. 😐
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Getting a kill at the start of the game is the best play a Killer can do
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You would get 0 kills as a weaker killer in some situations if you don't play "dirty".
You can't get downs quick enough and you have no mobility to pressure as some m1's. What do you do then? Play for hooks so survivors tbag you at the exit because you played "fair".
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Killers can no longer afford to spread hooks these days. With first chases costing at least one, two or three gens if you're unlucky and circle of healing rendering injuries moot, killer have to commit to the tunnel or lose any pressure they might gain. If games weren't so fast then there would be less overall tunneling, but until the game slows down, expect lots of tunneling and camping. Thats just the reality of DBD right now.
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You what’s also beyond irritating? Playing “fair” by the made-up survivor rule book and getting 2-3 hooks max and 0K because you played against a coordinated SWF team who ran broken loops all game and then used DH for a free health state when they got outplayed and then went to their unlimited healing boon totem when you dropped chase.
Not every match is like this, but when I find myself in one, I’m absolutely going to tunnel.
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This is part of the reason why I think half of the complaints about DbD would disappear if the toxicity would get dialed down a few notches. Playing for hooks is a more enjoyable way to play the game but getting mocked for not tunneling just encourages people to tunnel more.
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It's because some people don't like to sweat during the match so they eliminate a survivor to make it a relaxing game for them, I personally don't tunnel but I won't hate on people who do because DS, unbreakable exists and punishes it, if they're willing to take the risk of wasting that time trying to tunnel then I don't see why not when it could just as easily be used against them.
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I mean.... Then group up on the first gen allowing me to get pressure and not lose 2-3 gens first chase.
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Sadly, it's the most effective way to control the game from the killer side. It's simply easier to manage the actions of 3 people instead of 4 and caps the amount of gen progress they can generate so games don't get sped through for the killer.
Inversely, it means that whoever gets tunneled out first has extremely short games where the only solution is get better at the game so they can force chases to take longer to the point the killer has no choice but not to tunnel. It's rough.
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No thanks, 3v1 on these maps is a lot easier than 4v1.
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Yeah, it's absolutely horrible how hard it is for killer to get kills at high MMR.
I Tried Otzdarva's Killer Challenge... - Dead By Daylight - YouTube
I Did Otzdarva's AFK Challenge TWICE | Night Survivors VS Day Survivors - Dead by Daylight - YouTube
I AFK'd for 30secs with NO PERKS / ADD-ONS! | Dead by Daylight - YouTube
I Did Otzdarva's AFK Challenge TWICE | Night Survivors VS Day Survivors - Dead by Daylight - YouTube
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We really gonna go through this again?
You can have matches where survivors play badly and win without tunneling. Exceptions don't make the rule. We operate in probability, not possibility.
You rely on survivor mistakes to win. If they make mistakes you can win without tunneling, if they don't you need to tunnel, hence lots of those videos.
Should we even mention how some of those videos were done when MMR was basically turned off? Should we mention how you probably didn't even watch all the videos to realize some of them were running NOED and specifically stated they tried to tunnel someone out as fast as possible to win? How about them mentioning specifically playing during the day to get easier matches to make the challenge even possible?
Nah, nah let's not mention those things, that breaks the narrative.
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I get irritated by that "didnt get to play"-nonsense. You were free to roam the map, but failed to evade the killer.
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My advice: Try not to be the first person to be found. Hide until you’re safe at a gen or something. Use perks like decisive strike and spine chill to avoid getting found and tunneled out early.
I know hook camping and stuff needs to be changed but this is all we survivors can do at the moment.
Post edited by legacycolt on4 -
Its because most killer players think theyre sooo good while theyre not even average, and then think the only way to play is by abusing the gameflaws that cater towards killers. theyre just a lazy pack of players, that dont wont to put any effort intoy how to play well.
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Play killer and reach medium-high/high MMR
You will understand why killers (usually the low tier killers) camp and tunnels the first guy or the weakest link.
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If you watch the videos, you will see that every single one of the streamers are getting more 4ks and 3ks as compared to 2ks,1ks and 0ks. So these aren't exceptions to the rule, these are the actual rule.
Also, how are they running NOED when this is Perkless, Add-onless and a 30 second head-start for survivors game?
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"If you watch the videos, you will see that every single one of the streamers are getting more 4ks and 3ks as compared to 2ks,1ks and 0ks. So these aren't exceptions to the rule, these are the actual rule."
Them linking the specific videos of winning isn't the rule. It's leaving out all the games lost, which was much more than what they won. This is like thinking a player is god tier because you watch only their youtube where they only post they matches they win on.
"Also, how are they running NOED when this is Perkless, Add-onless and a 30 second head-start for survivors game?"
Because you didn't post all the challenge videos, only one set. Also you never responded to my point about why these are possible or even how to make lots of these possible they specifically tunneled people out. You know, the literal entire point of this page.
Actually playing at high mmr is a lot different than watching a youtuber play at high mmr.
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It does suck and I personally just cant bring myself to play like this as killer but I understand the imbalances things COH have brought to the game leave many killers feeling like they have no choice.
It feels horrible to wait for 10 minutes only to not even be able to play the game as you just get tunnelled out. But it is a symptom of a problem that I suspect the devs are realising they need to address (or the game will die).
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Them linking the specific videos of winning isn't the rule. It's leaving out all the games lost, which was much more than what they won. This is like thinking a player is god tier because you watch only their youtube where they only post they matches they win on.
If you looked at the videos, they post the statistics for the challenge. So this argument is moot.
Because you didn't post all the challenge videos, only one set. Also you never responded to my point about why these are possible or even how to make lots of these possible they specifically tunneled people out. You know, the literal entire point of this page.
The one set of challenge videos is the only significant one, since it shows that killers are able to get 4ks and 3ks without perks, without addons and giving survivors a 30 sec headstart.
Yes, they tunnel survivors out. If you can Tunneling-off-hook-till-dead survivors, then the game should be balanced around that. Meaning that survivors should have buffs to compensate. Or Tunneling-off-hook-till-dead should be nerfed.
Obviously killers are way overpowered compared to survivors when Tunneling-off-hook-till-dead, since they can use that strategy and get 4ks and 3ks without perks, addons and giving survivors a 30 sec head-start.
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80% of cases, the survivor team does this to themselves
Running around the map
Then pulling off the hook when the killer didn't get a chance to leave
Being over-altruistic instead of completing the only objective that allows you to escape
It's a vicious cycle.
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I'm not sure what you're talking about with "exceptions". The Choy video for instance was 54 matches in a row and he tracked stats and averages. It also was posted in January, not during the MMR test. And in Choy's video he intentionally played 27 matches during the day and 27 matches at night so he could track the differences (he still got more than 2 kills average both times which is pretty impressive considering how the challenge worked, running no perks and being afk 30 seconds at the start of each match.)
Mind you, I have zero problems with so-called "tunneling", that's a pointless buzzword at this point that seems to just be shorthand for "you downed me twice in a row". But this notion that someone these matches were all "exceptions to the rule" is nonsense.
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I never once referenced Choy's videos specifically. The exceptions were to many other videos he did not post of the challenges.
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"If you looked at the videos, they post the statistics for the challenge. So this argument is moot."
Yeah, of the videos you posted.
"Obviously killers are way overpowered compared to survivors when Tunneling-off-hook-till-dead, since they can use that strategy and get 4ks and 3ks without perks, addons and giving survivors a 30 sec head-start."
You seem to have derailed from the entire point of this page. I never once said you couldn't 3k or 4k just camping and tunneling.
Literally the only thing I said was that tunneling was necessary to win against equally skilled survivors with m1 killers unless they mess up a lot. None of which any of the videos you posted go against that. They literally support my point.
Me: Says you need to tunnel to win
You: Posts a bunch of videos showing tunneling to win
That's entirely my point.
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Ok, I can't comment on other videos you don't like that the person you replied to didn't link, the Choy one they linked though doesn't seem to have that issue you complained about.
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No, it’s better another hundred of post crying because of dh
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yeah it sucks. I hope it gets better. Unfortunately the only way to stop it is with in game mechanics. Even if they try to balance the game people are still gonna tunnel. Basement bubbas aren’t going away either and that sucks
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Actually, they do go against what you are saying. These streams are beating people without perks, addons and with head starts. If streamers can do this, then high MMR killers can do the same with perks, addons and without headstarts, without the need to tunnel-off-hook-till-dead.
Tunnel-off-hook-till-dead is a I-Win button, the killers sometimes decide not to use.
I'd say, take the I-Win button away or Buff survivors to compensate for having an I-Win button.
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If I see you placing a boon down you're getting tunneled out because I'm pretty sure that's coh
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"If streamers can do this, then high MMR killers can do the same with perks, addons and without headstarts, without the need to tunnel-off-hook-till-dead."
That is not what those videos illustrated whatsoever. You are making a huge inference here based on nearly nothing. You really should play killer and survivor at high mmr to understand.
"I'd say, take the I-Win button away or Buff survivors to compensate for having an I-Win button."
Everyone wants tunneling taken away, the problem is it is required at high mmr with most the killer roster unless the survivors play really badly. We need to fix maps, nerf some overpowered perks, buff weak killers and then nerf tunneling heavily.
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Stop repairing generators, then killers will stop tunneling.
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Never
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That sleepy time tea really hit hard.
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Isn't being chased a part of playing the game? You would rather just hold M1 on a gen?
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How is that not exactly what those videos are showing. These streamers are high MMR players. They are proving over and over again that Killers are fine without using perks, addons and with head-starts.
How in the h*ll does that translate to nerf survivors buff killers?
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Fun fact: in the time between the Undying release and its nerf, there were (almost) no camping or tunneling threads. Simply because any killer that wanted to get some juice out of the Undying Ruin combo, simply couldn´t afford to focus on a single survivor. Instead they had to spread damage and constantly switch targets.
Now on top of that, CoH completely killed off hit&run. Which forces killers to secure a down/kill.
Fascinating how that backfired. Isn´t it?
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"How is that not exactly what those videos are showing. These streamers are high MMR players. They are proving over and over again that Killers are fine without using perks, addons and with head-starts."
You are not understanding what the videos showed. What they showed was that you can 3k or 4k with no perks or addons if you hard tunnel.
Able to win consecutively with no addons or perks but tunneling hard = / = you can win against equally good survivors that don't make mistakes at high mmr with an m1 killer using perks and addons without tunneling
That is not what the videos show. That is you making an assumption.
"How in the h*ll does that translate to nerf survivors buff killers?"
It doesn't make sense to you because of the assumption you are making with drawing incorrect conclusions from those videos. Killers are tunneling because against equally skilled survivors at high mmr that don't make tons of mistakes you cannot win on the majority of the killer roster without tunneling. That is just facts. If you give them the ability to win those matches without tunneling, then tunneling will go down tremendously. The killers don't want to tunnel, they feel forced to.
If you played both sides at high mmr you would understand this. This isn't a contested topic, the vast majority of the community with good hours in the game understands this already.
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Yeah, because Undying was an easier "I-Win" button compared to "Tunneling-Off-Hook-Till-Dead". They're both "I-Win" buttons.
We both want tunnel-off-hook-till-dead out of the game, so why not remove it, then buff killers to compensate. It's not really fair that killers get buffed and still have the I-Win button.
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aw someone is in a food coma from having a nice fill of chill
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An I-Win button that survivors could completely ignore, because Ruin on itself didn´t do anything against survivors that just held m1.
Or do you mean that a killer who wasn´t camping or tunneling automatically won the match by injuring everyone and constantly breaking chases? Correct me if i´m wrong, but wasn´t that what survivors always wanted? Getting left alone so they could heal in peace?
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I think you should also realize what the challenge show cases:
The conclusions:
"Most of the time the victory goes to the sweatier side"
"DBD is sided to whatever side decides to be the nastiest (huge flaw in design) and that's why a Killer can get a ~2k average with a huge handicap if they are willing to play as dirty as you can."
Going... well streamers can do it even with a handicap, but they use the tactics that people complain about! Most people will admit that they aren't close to the level of these individual players and so even though people might not give a heads start etc. Their general gameplay will be inferior in comparison.
Getting a 2k average is also lopsided, as it is far easier for a killer that even loses to secure a single kill, as also pointed out by Otz in this experiment. This means that to have a 50% kill rate on average you would have to lose more than 50% significantly and it is also why in the stats by the developers most killers do have a bit above 50%. That is just how statistics work.
Also, which killer you play significantly impacts the ability to how nice you can play. Regardless of that fact, if as a player you want to win in the game you have to play in these fashions for both killer and survivor. Survivors spread out, slam gens, break up 3-gens, try to waste as much time as possible of the killer, go for saves while killers will secure 3-gens, tunnel, camp and slug. Either side holding back is just going to result in them most likely losing, because most people play to win.
As Otz points out there is:
"- No real incentive to play nice or spice things up"
That is not the players fault and whether survivors want to believe it or not... there are many sweaty survivors, which is why people complain about the meta of both sides. Want a change... get BHVR to give people incentives or at the minimum alternatives that are viable and not just for the very few S-Tier killers.
The truth of the matter is, if you want to get kills you either play dirty or you play Nurse/Blight? Nearly everyone else needs to camp/tunnel at some point in the game and even then there are no guarantees, timing and how your opponents respond are just as vital to whether it works or not.
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I just don't see what else you are supposed to do tbh. Most of my games I am losing 1-2 gens for a borderline perfect chase; and that's with Corrupt.
I spawn in, walk across the map, find someone, chainsaw them in the first sweep, and boom the first gens are still popping as I hook them. A mistake or two during the first chase I would probably lose 3. Pop goes the weasel has been utterly worthless lately on low mobility killers.
Especially on a 110 killer, where do you go from losing 2 gens for your first hook? You could walk across the map, find a hold W + predrop gamer, and lose the next few gens before you are even really caught up to them.
The only killers I really feel comfortable target swapping on are Nurse and Blight; who can be dropping people in the first 15 seconds of the game. Everyone else is too slow and downs take too long even when you execute them almost flawlessly.
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"We both want tunnel-off-hook-till-dead out of the game, so why not remove it, then buff killers to compensate."
That is literally what I have been saying this entire conversation...
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The best pressure a killer can apply is eliminating a survivor. The quicker you do that the easier the game is. That's why you only need to tunnel out 1 player early because 3v1 is manageable but 4v1 can be a slog.
Just as survivors have figured out split up on gens to maximise pressure, killers have figured out eliminate someone ASAP to maximise pressure.
Telling someone hey "don't tunnel spread your hooks and focus on multiple survivors" is kinda the same as telling survivors "hey don't focus on multiple gens do them one at a time" Its nuts players are gonna do what they can to get maximum pressure if they want to win. You should expect it.
Where is the incentive to switch targets when the best thing you can do game wise is eliminate a survivor early. If you buff up survivors as a counter all you do is make chasing less viable and tunneling more a requirement to be competitive.
Its an elimination game sometimes you are gonna be eliminated early, if you keep getting eliminated early then maybe switch up your gameplay at match start, be a little more cautious and mindful.
I don't get tunneled out first often because hey I'm usually not the first person found.
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don't take it personally, its just that if you manage to kill one of the survivors fast enough then the killer can enjoy the rest of the match. I dont like to do this anymore, because I no longer care to get 4ks or stomps, but I can understand a killer that wants to actually enjoy the chases and the game without having to forfeit the possibility of a victory for doing so or constantly feel like he is fighting against a collapsing building, just a tiny mistake away from total devastation.
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Because the current meta allows for nothing else. Even the devs noticed. Just look at the last 4 killers perks. Every single one of them had a perk to slow gens down (some even several perks).
Playing without any gen slowdown perks will guarantee you getting barely 2 or 3 hooks before all gens are completed (unless you play against complete potatoes that spend the first 2 minutes hiding in the corner of the map). Using only 1 slowdown perk has almost no effect. So killers currently stack between 2 and 3 slowdown perks (ironically, the devs once said that they are against slowdown perks stacking and that killers shouldn´t feel forced to take them).
Killers have grown really desperate and i don´t really blame them for camping or tunneling the first survivor they see (even if i am that one).
The people that claim how streamers can get their 3k without any (slowdown) perks should take a look at how many hooks the streamers get before the gates are powered. Even Otz has matches where he only gets 4 hooks in exchange for 5 gens. So why do they still get kills? Because survivors get cocky when they are still on their first hook and all gens are completed. Since there is no "real" risk. Which sometimes backfires.
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"Most of the time the victory goes to the sweatier side"
Yes.
"DBD is sided to whatever side decides to be the nastiest (huge flaw in design) and that's why a Killer can get a ~2k average with a huge handicap if they are willing to play as dirty as you can."
Yes.
"- No real incentive to play nice or spice things up"
Yes.
All of these are true and I agree with them. Killers have an "I-Win" button and choose not to use it in most matches. If every killer-player decided to use it, kill rates would sky-rocket. Killers-players for the most part, are extremely nice and don't use the "I-Win" button. I know I don't and when I play survivors, there's a lot of killer-players that don't.
That's not the problem. The problem is the "I-Win" button is there and is used. It hurts killers because it raises kill rates for the killers who want to play nasty. And, it hurts survivors because it requires survivors to have DS and a player running BT to make it hurt the killer time-wise in a chase. Even then, a determined killer and dead-zones can make BT and DS useless.
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And thus, day by day, I slowly become closer to a Blight main
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Bubba is cutie.
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