Please do not change Self Care

Self care allows you to heal without help of others or use of items.
It trivalizes being hit by the killer, on top of that, game was supposed to be a survival horror, having limited supplies is a major thing in such genre.

Right now, it is much more time efficient to self care rather than look for a chest with a medikit or search for a teammate, as the time spent doing any of these two actions would allow you to self care yourself at least two times in most cases.

On top of that, if SC wouldn't be a thing, killer could asses potential threats, such as killer finds a group of survivors, manages to wound all of them and decides to chase the only survivor who has a medikit, knowing as that person can heal themselves without help of any other survivor, while the rest of the group disperses in semi chaos, maybe losing a sight of each others, forcing them to initiate a search actions if not equipped properly (no medikits, no aura reading perks, etc).

Self Care currently trivalizes too many aspects of the game where you sh> @Jayden said:

@PureHostility said:
Self care allows you to heal without help of others or use of items.
It trivalizes being hit by the killer, on top of that, game was supposed to be a survival horror, having limited supplies is a major thing in such genre.

Right now, it is much more time efficient to self care rather than look for a chest with a medikit or search for a teammate, as the time spent doing any of these two actions would allow you to self care yourself at least two times in most cases.

On top of that, if SC wouldn't be a thing, killer could asses potential threats, such as killer finds a group of survivors, manages to wound all of them and decides to chase the only survivor who has a medikit, knowing as that person can heal themselves without help of any other survivor, while the rest of the group disperses in semi chaos, maybe losing a sight of each others, forcing them to initiate a search actions if not equipped properly (no medikits, no aura reading perks, etc).

Self Care currently trivalizes too many aspects of the game.

I highly disagree. This is a Survival Horror but it's not like other survival horrors where it's an open map with players able to go wherever and have a lot of space and ways to get rid of the threat, like having a gun, being able to actually outrun the threat, ect.

Your argument for chests is bad, for many reasons. Three chests spawn per match, one being risky to get and always in the basement where the other two are randomly generated in places across the map. You are saying that survivors should all HOPE that there is a medkit inside the chest. So hoping RNG is kind to you, gives you a medkit that is purple because anything lower won't last more than one to two heals and hoping that you don't have your teammats take all the chests because one person isn't going to have the chance to even get a chest.

Also people would try to find each other in the case of everyone being hurt at that point, they'd all go back to the spot where the chase probably started to heal up. People DO NOT bring items hardly anymore because of a fun perk killers get called Franklin's Demise where you have no counter play to it. Also survivors only have a few aura reading perks, one for chests and generators. Only one of those can help and again, hoping for a medkit out of them and hoping for the killer to not have Franklin's and hoping that your teammates didn't steal and get to them before you.

Self Care fits into the game. This game is not a typical survival horror and perks are apart of the game. The killers all have plenty of counter play to self healing and healing in general that it doesn't need to be nerfed. You're logic is too based around a communicating team who can say where all the chests are and that they all have medkits and the killer not having Franklin's or Nurses Calling or literally any perk that slows down progress or shows aura or gets rid of items.

Im basing my response on all survivors being solo players, I do not assume any of them being on comms, as I do not approve of SWF being a game intended feature.

Bringing items in the game is as common as it always was, FD being in play or not doesn't discourage players from what I have seen, just the amount of purple flashlights each game has been lowered for some reason.

Survivors would indeed start looking for each other, if they know they are not in a chase anymore.
That can cost a bit of a time too before they realize it is safe to do so and killer won't change their target after smacking that last survivor.

About aura reading perks, what I meant by these were Empathy and Bond. If you really want to know all aura reading perks then: Bond, Empathy, Deja Vu, Dark Sense, Alert, Plunderer's Instinct, Wake Up, Detective's Hunch, Kindred, Object of Obsession and Windows of Opportunity.
That's plenty of them, on top of that you have maps and keys with proper addons, that can substitute perks or even allow you to see stuff that is not possible with just perks.

Also, never said chests should always give you a medikit (if you want that, run Pharmacy, it is a great perk), but give you a chance instead of getting one if you haven't brought any into the game.
Having no item to heal yourself or no teammate should be a hindrance for you, not a "oh well, will just heal myself with mud".

Too many survivors are too used to running it as a base of their perk builds, you should actually try not using it, it is not a needed perk. However if you cannot play without it, I would question your game knowledge and experience, due to massive reliance on a single perk.

Even Matthieu Cote realised that Self-care proved to be an issue for this game.
If EVEN HIM, the guy that considered infinites to be skilled, think this is too strong, it might be a hint.
Kek.

Jayden said:

@Blueberry said:

Killers do not have “multiple” ways to counter healing. We have nurses calling, that’s it. If you get caught healing in the killers terror radius then you’re an idiot, that’s not because it’s a strong counter. Only other counters are certain killer addons which are “minor” to say the least and it’s requiring them to waste an addon. The time difference between what the killer lost to get that hit on you, and the time you spend to heal it is not even in the same ball park. I don’t believe you are rank 1 on both sides or you would know this.

Uh there are a lot of things to counter healing. Killers don't lose you most games, once you're found you're dead for the most part unless the killer is blind. I'm not sure you're rank 1 anything thinking that way. Especially since you think Nurse's calling is the only way to counter healing, have you played the game recently?

All the ways to counter healing and for tracking hurt players:
Perks: Thanatophobia, Nurse's Calling, Dying Light, Barbecue & Chilli, Overwhelming Presence (For Medkits), Coulrophobia, Bloodhound, Deerstalker, Franklin's Demise (For Medkits), Knock Out, Predator, Sloppy Butcher
Add-ons: Rusted Jaws, Coarse Stone, Fine Stone, Utility Blades, Begrimed Chains, Begrimed Head, Rusted Chains, Rusty Attachments, Rusty Head, Sulphuric Acid Vial

All the ways the game hands you ways to find survivors:
Perks: Barbecue & Chilli, Nurse's Calling, Bitter Murmur, Spies from the Shadows, Whispers, Territorial Imperative, Blood Warden,
Add-ons: Pussy Willow Catkins, Willow Wreath, "Restraint" - Class II, "Restraint" - Class III, "Restraint" - Carter's Notes, Class Photo, Black Box, Reflective Fragment, Glass Fragment, Mirror Shard, Vanity Mirror, Scratched Mirror, Amanda's Secret, Tattoo's Middle Finger, "All Seeing" - Mud, "All Seeing" - Spirit, "All Seeing" - Blood, "All Seeing" - White
Other: Doctor

Then don't forget the instant down things:
Perks: Hex: No One Escapes Death, Hex: Devour Hope, Make your Choice
Add-ons: Diamond Stone, Redhead's Pinky Finger, Iridescent Head
Other: Chainsaws, Myers

@Jayden said:

@Runiver said:
Even Matthieu Cote realised that Self-care proved to be an issue for this game.
If EVEN HIM, the guy that considered infinites to be skilled, think this is too strong, it might be a hint.
Kek.

Matthieu also thought ping meters would break immersion. You even contradicted yourself, if he thinks infinites are skilled then he doesn't know the game balance and the self care comment he made is negated by your own statement.

Clearly not the sharpest knife in the drawer.
Tho, as a matter of fact, Self-care is just way too strong.
It's a huge time saver, it allows more boldness, more safety when healing, it forces the killer to commit into a chase even if the survivor reaches an overly strong spot, if he doesn't want to instantly lose the chase progress due to the survivor's self-caring, amongst other uses.

@Jayden said:

Killer Perks worth running: Nurses Calling, Barbecue & Chilli, Agitation, Blood Warden, Brutal Strength, Coulrophobia, Deerstalker, Distressing, Dying Light, Enduring, Franklin's Demise, Devour Hope, Huntress Lullaby, No One Escapes Death, Ruin, Iron Grasp, Knock Out, Make your Choice, Lightborn, Monitor & Abuse, Overcharge, Pop Goes The Weasel, Thanatophobia, Unnerving Presence, and Whispers

Distressing is only good on Doctor. Agitation and Iron Grasp are useful, but I would hardly call them meta or even all that great. Thanataphobia is considered trash by most Killers as, even at its best, it adds a mere few seconds to Gen Repair (I think it's like two or three). Knock Out and Franklin's are ok, the former being countered by SWF and the latter isn't needed if items aren't brought (also why Lightborn isn't that great as it relies on items being in play). Monitor & Abuse is ok, but only really good on Myers or Killers with over all smaller Terror Radiuses. Unnerving Presence is only good on Doctor. For Stealth Killers its useless, and it's actively detrimental to one Killer in particularly (Freddy).

It seems to me that you only consider perks to be "good" if they're very strong or outright meta perks. What about Lightweight? We'll Make It? Bond? Empathy? Iron Will? Quick & Quiet? Lithe (Lithe has saved me just as much as Sprint Burst)? We're Gonna Live Forever? Botany Knowledge? Small Game is great for finding Totems if you don't remember the spawns of every one. Hell, you could even almost argue that Prove Thyself is worth it as it grants you more points in Lightbringer.

The other day, I was playing on Console where I have almost none of the "good" perks. The only perks I had maxed out were Spine Chill, Premonition, Small Game, and Prove Thyself. With Spine Chill and Premonition, I was able to know when the Killer was heading my way and what direction they were coming, regardless of who they were so they almost never found me. I destroyed Hex Totems and a bunch of dull ones for a lot of points in Boldness. And Prove Thyself helped me heal slightly faster and get more points in Lightbringer.

The point I'm trying to make is that all perks have Merit and can be very powerful if used properly. Especially ones like We'll Make it, Iron Will, Quick & Quiet.

The proposed nerf to Self Care isn't even that strong. To my knowledge, all it does is lose progression if you stop. Literally all this means is that you will have to be smarter in where you heal, something people like me who don't rely on Self Care have already been doing. People complain about Nurse's Calling all the time, but if you are smart about where and when you heal, Nurse's Calling will almost never affect you.

@Jayden said:

@Beaburd said:
For the reasons stated above and more, self care is extremely unhealthy. It eliminates any map pressure a killer should have gotten for attacking a survivor and switching targets. It removes any notion on consequence for doing something foolish.

This nerf isn't even meaningful, nor will it change the meta at all. Anyone who thinks that way is delusional. Just go somewhere safe to heal, problem solved. If it were up to me, Self care would have limited charges that only allow a maximum of 2 heals per game. You should be thankful such an insignificant change like that proposed in today's video is being considered as sufficient. I'm just amazed the developers think that resetting progress to 0 if interrupted might be too strong. I mean, really?

If you do something foolish that's on you, not the survivor. The nerf is just annoying because of random passives from killers, like doctors with distressing making you go insane from far away, making you scream, resetting your progress and they know exactly where you are. If one of your teammates gets downed and hook, here comes the killer with BBQ. There's many reasons changing it is toxic to survivors. Having healing ticks would be better than the current change but at 3 charges as long as they counted for completing the health state. Resetting progress to 0 is a stupid change, I wouldn't mind it going down by a percentage if you quit, 0 is just too much.

When I said it removes any notion of consequence for doing something foolish, I meant the survivor. For example, maybe the survivor failed at hiding or accidentally took a hit but the kill has something else to follow up on? With self-care, they get a slap on the wrist as it won't even matter in a few seconds.

And don't worry, they said they were probably going to make progress reset to whatever it was beforehand instead. So if you got healed to 50% via a medkit or teammate, that would be where it resets if your future self care got interrupted. They mentioned the 0 progress reset in passing, saying they were concerned it was too strong, which is what I'm scoffing at. The nerf is just so minor in that case. Yes, you have to run further, but you still get to keep infinite healing with no downsides other than time.

But hey, if everyone prefers a charge system then fingers crossed that they do that instead. I'm still vouching for two heals worth though.

@Jayden said:

@Runiver said:
Clearly not the sharpest knife in the drawer.
Tho, as a matter of fact, Self-care is just way too strong.
It's a huge time saver, it allows more boldness, more safety when healing, it forces the killer to commit into a chase even if the survivor reaches an overly strong spot, if he doesn't want to instantly lose the chase progress due to the survivor's self-caring, amongst other uses.

It prevents you from doing gens or anything while you are healing. Self care is very loud and you can hear it from a pretty good distance away, there's ways to slow it down and ways to find people who are hurt. It's not overpowered, it's the only way to not have to rely on your random/bad teammates to heal you. When it first came out it was actually broken, and it's been in a good place since then. They can just get healed by teammates which is faster if you switch targets.

Having to rely on teammates to compensate for your failures (aka getting hit) is the essence of that kind of game.
It doesn't stop you from doing gens, it's actually a time gain, since a healing teammate would actually waste more gen time healing you, than he would have by simply keep repairing while you self-care. (Simple maths : If he heals you, he works at 100% efficiency, you work at 0%. If you self-care while he repairs, you work at 50% efficiency, while he works at 100% efficiency.)

Self-care allows you not to stop your teammates from repairing, allows you not to have to regroup to heal (regrouping survivors is a good way for the killer to pressure multiple survivors at once and distrupt them efficiently), allows you to get in a corner to safely heal without having to bring a teammate there either, and extensively, as stated above, it forces killer to commit to chases through strong windows (aka coal tower and such) if they do not want to lose the initial hit they managed to get due to self-care, while a non-self-care survivor would have to possibly take a risk stepping away from it to get healed.

It just has TOO MANY BENEFITS in a single perk, which explains the humongous 80%+ pickrate of the perk, including new survivors (% that will surely increase due to the latest patch, allowing newcomers to have self-care at level 1 with a level 1 claudette).

It is just way too practical AND versatile to bypass, which is why it is too strong. A perk should fit a playstyle, not be a stupid "mandatory perk because it's strong and useful in nearly every situations"

@Jayden said:

@Runiver said:

@Jayden said:

@Runiver said:
Clearly not the sharpest knife in the drawer.
Tho, as a matter of fact, Self-care is just way too strong.
It's a huge time saver, it allows more boldness, more safety when healing, it forces the killer to commit into a chase even if the survivor reaches an overly strong spot, if he doesn't want to instantly lose the chase progress due to the survivor's self-caring, amongst other uses.

It prevents you from doing gens or anything while you are healing. Self care is very loud and you can hear it from a pretty good distance away, there's ways to slow it down and ways to find people who are hurt. It's not overpowered, it's the only way to not have to rely on your random/bad teammates to heal you. When it first came out it was actually broken, and it's been in a good place since then. They can just get healed by teammates which is faster if you switch targets.

Having to rely on teammates to compensate for your failures (aka getting hit) is the essence of that kind of game.
It doesn't stop you from doing gens, it's actually a time gain, since a healing teammate would actually waste more gen time healing you, than he would have by simply keep repairing while you self-care. (Simple maths : If he heals you, he works at 100% efficiency, you work at 0%. If you self-care while he repairs, you work at 50% efficiency, while he works at 100% efficiency.)

Self-care allows you not to stop your teammates from repairing, allows you not to have to regroup to heal (regrouping survivors is a good way for the killer to pressure multiple survivors at once and distrupt them efficiently), allows you to get in a corner to safely heal without having to bring a teammate there either, and extensively, as stated above, it forces killer to commit to chases through strong windows (aka coal tower and such) if they do not want to lose the initial hit they managed to get due to self-care, while a non-self-care survivor would have to possibly take a risk stepping away from it to get healed.

It just has TOO MANY BENEFITS in a single perk, which explains the humongous 80%+ pickrate of the perk, including new survivors (% that will surely increase due to the latest patch, allowing newcomers to have self-care at level 1 with a level 1 claudette).

It is just way too practical AND versatile to bypass, which is why it is too strong. A perk should fit a playstyle, not be a stupid "mandatory perk because it's strong and useful in nearly every situations"

It's very easy to get hit, killers run faster than you. Healing and then working on a gen with 2 people is much faster. Also the too many benefits in a single perk can be applied to BBQ which 90% of killers use. BBQ is the killers practical and versatile perk that everyone runs. All killers just complain about self care being used too much which makes it broken, when every killer uses BBQ. So hopefully that gets nerfed soon going by the logic.

"Very easy to get hit" clearly depends on the situation.
Healing and working on a gen with 2 people is not faster, it's actually slower.
Simple maths :
You're self-caring (50% efficiency)
1 guy is repairing alone (100% efficiency)
another guy is repairing alone (100% efficiency)
Total efficiency : 250% at all times with no break.

You get healed by your 2 teammates (200% efficiency)
Then, you all have to get positioned to a gen (that has possibly not 3 slots)
You all get the malus for repairing at multiple survivor (-10% per extra survivor on a gen)
You're actually wasting time playing as a team and regrouping, compared to self-caring.

BBQ is a perk that is mostly ran to get the BP bonus to make the pain of a life to play killer worth it. The aura reading is mostly beneficial only on a few killers, and actually got nerfed next patch due to the color change of the generator aura to red, which allows survivor to hide behind them without being spottable.
Do you see any killer complaining about this ? No. Why ? Because we got used to get our stuff changed and nerfed and learnt to adapt rather than simply saying "No." (even tho BBQ wasn't even broken in the first place)
Not to mention BBQ has CONDITIONS (Hooking someone, looking around, rage limitations), and is SITUATIONAL (depending on the number of survivors, and eventually not usable if you're in a hurry to do something else) and not VERSATILE (it's very rigid and won't get useful most of the time), unlike self-care.

Also, BBQ is another subject. Trying to make an argument for self-care using BBQ is pretty sad.
BBQ is pretty far from a 80% perk usage. I actually removed it from all of my killers except from Billy, since I got all the BPs I needed.

@Jayden said:
Self Care, as it is, is balanced. It's one of the only good survivor perks that exists right now because most survivor perks are useless. Killers have many perks they can choose from that benefit them, survivors only have a handful and just because they're used a lot it doesn't mean they're overpowered and doesn't justify a nerf. DS is the only current survivor perk that should be reworked to a nerf. The only good buff for survivors to even consider running is Ace in the Hole if they're item farming. Killers already have so many perks to stop you from healing or slow it down even more, progress shouldn't be reset just because you stopped. Killers have so many perks and add-ons to stop you from doing anything. There's gen reductions, healing reductions, seeing survivors auras so you always know where people are, anti-item builds. The list goes on and on. Survivors on the other hand get some items that most don't even bother to bring into games because of Franklin's and they don't want to lose it for nothing. At least we have one perk to somewhat stop camping (Borrowed Time) and then the rest are to just try to avoid killers who complain about pallet looping even though there is literally nothing else for survivors to do in a chase that isn't super risky and hoping for the killer to mess up and at higher ranks, killers don't normally lose you.

Anyway, here's all the super viable perks I see people running, I know other people run different things along with these perks but these are the perks I see a lot. for each side, the gap between useful perks is insane.

Survivor Perks worth running: Self Care, Decisive Strike, Dead Hard, Sprint Burst, Adrenaline, Urban Evasion, Borrowed Time

Killer Perks worth running: Nurses Calling, Barbecue & Chilli, Agitation, Blood Warden, Brutal Strength, Coulrophobia, Deerstalker, Distressing, Dying Light, Enduring, Franklin's Demise, Devour Hope, Huntress Lullaby, No One Escapes Death, Ruin, Iron Grasp, Knock Out, Make your Choice, Lightborn, Monitor & Abuse, Overcharge, Pop Goes The Weasel, Thanatophobia, Unnerving Presence, and Whispers

Please reconsider the nerf to Self Care. It's not broken just because it's used a lot. It's a balanced perk and doesn't deserve to be touched. Killers already have counters for it. Leave it be.

Edit: Saw a change on Youtube. This sounds MUCH better than just resetting it to 0. If they did this kind of change I'd be fine with it.
"I'd like to see you guys try maybe not just a complete reset on heal, but a gradual degradation (because you are injured and you are losing blood, so you would lose health). So if you're Self-Caring OR being healed and you get interrupted or put back in a chase, your health bar gradually goes down and loses progress until you start healing again."

Self Care is to strong right now. Survivors healing mid chase shouldn´t be a thing.
Now to your list of survivor and killer perks worth running.
Survivor perks: Ace in the Hole (free add-ons), Adrenaline, Borrowed Time, Dead Hard, Deceisive Strike, Kindred, Pharmacy, Self Care, Sprint Burst, Streetwise, Unbreakable, Urban Evasion, Vigil, We´ll make it, Bond, Empathy, Iron Will, Lightweight, Plunderers Instinct (free purple flashlights!), Quick&Quiet, Small Game, We´re gonna farm forever.

I think you went a little short on the worthwile survivor perks.

Killer perks: Nurse Calling, BBQ, Distressing (only on the doctor), Franklins, NOED, Ruin, Monitor&Abuse (only on Myers), Overcharge, Whispers, Deerstalker, Enduring, Unnerving Pressence (only on doctor).

The rest of the killer perks are to weak or only for specific builds. Like Knock out for slug builds and Iron Grasp + Agitation to drag a survivor to the Basement. But on their own, both perks are weak.

Now your "strong" killer perks:
Blood warden = to situational, useless against SWF.
Brutal Strength = the bonus is not worth it.
Coultrophobia = No one heals in the killers terror radius because of Nurse Calling.
Dying Light = a perk to tunnel and camp. By the time it´s effect starts, the game is already over.
Huntress Lullaby = useless, since survivors know its on the map even before it has its first token.
Thanatophobia = the slow down is to small

I liked what they said in the stream. They could buff Trapper a little bit more by removing the RNG. But the rest seems really solid. Especially the new wallhack perks that will shake up the meta.

Uh there are a lot of things to counter healing. Killers don't lose you most games, once you're found you're dead for the most part unless the killer is blind. I'm not sure you're rank 1 anything thinking that way. Especially since you think Nurse's calling is the only way to counter healing, have you played the game recently?

All the ways to counter healing and for tracking hurt players:
Perks: Thanatophobia, Nurse's Calling, Dying Light, Barbecue & Chilli, Overwhelming Presence (For Medkits), Coulrophobia, Bloodhound, Deerstalker, Franklin's Demise (For Medkits), Knock Out, Predator, Sloppy Butcher
Add-ons: Rusted Jaws, Coarse Stone, Fine Stone, Utility Blades, Begrimed Chains, Begrimed Head, Rusted Chains, Rusty Attachments, Rusty Head, Sulphuric Acid Vial

All the ways the game hands you ways to find survivors:
Perks: Barbecue & Chilli, Nurse's Calling, Bitter Murmur, Spies from the Shadows, Whispers, Territorial Imperative, Blood Warden,
Add-ons: Pussy Willow Catkins, Willow Wreath, "Restraint" - Class II, "Restraint" - Class III, "Restraint" - Carter's Notes, Class Photo, Black Box, Reflective Fragment, Glass Fragment, Mirror Shard, Vanity Mirror, Scratched Mirror, Amanda's Secret, Tattoo's Middle Finger, "All Seeing" - Mud, "All Seeing" - Spirit, "All Seeing" - Blood, "All Seeing" - White
Other: Doctor

Then don't forget the instant down things:
Perks: Hex: No One Escapes Death, Hex: Devour Hope, Make your Choice
Add-ons: Diamond Stone, Redhead's Pinky Finger, Iridescent Head
Other: Chainsaws, Myers

Thanatophobia is trash and ironically gets easily countered by self care, Nurses calling is by far the best and one of the only ways to track healing survivors, Dying Light is complete garbage which pretty much requires you to bring a mori, BBQ and chilli is easy to counter ( just walk one direction for a few seconds then go in another ), Overwhelming presence is just awful and not worth using a perk slot, Coulrophobia is only useful in tandem with Nurses calling ( which is half your perk slots right there ), Bloodhound is fine it does what it is meant to do not much to say there, Deerstalker is exclusively for downed survivors and has no impact on self care at all, Franklins Demise is not a very good perk because if you are hit by it you can just retrieve the item later, Knock out is the exact same as Deerstalker it has no impact on self care, Predator is one of the worst perks in the game right now and is actually a hinderence to killer players, Sloppy butcher is mainy useable in tandem with Bloodhound ( which in my opinion is not worth 2 perk slots ).

All of the add-ons that you mention are completely ability reliant, which means you would have to hit them with either the chainsaw, the hatchets or the bear trap etc. ( which chainsaw can be hard to hit on good survivors, hatchets are very inconsistent at the moment and bear traps are easily found by good survivors ).

Bitter Murmur is a terrible end game perk that, once again, has no impact on self care, Spies from the shadows is just awful because survivors can just crouch and birds wont activate, Whispers is an alright perk but it also is not a definitive location of a survivor, it just gives you a general vicinity on them, Territorial imperative is basement only so has no impact on self care and blood warden is an endgame perk that relies on you hooking a survivor AFTER the gates have been opened and has no impact on self care.

And finally NOED and Devour hope are hex perks that can be destroyed and once again have no impact on self care, and Make your choice gives the survivor the notification that they are exposed so they know to just avoid the killer and has no effect on self care

The point I am trying to make here is that very few of the things you mentioned actually affect self care directly. I personally believe self care should be removed entirely which would then promote far more team play by surviovors and add more risk to getting hit ( which right now there is very little risk )