killers still tunnelling badly even after nerf.
So all iv seen lately is killers are tunneling and camping because boon healing is too strong etc, even with the buffed legion they are still resulting to really annoying games you just don't want to play.
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Tunneling was always a problem.
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If you don't want to play, then don't queue up.
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They buffed legion. There are still 26 other killers that are struggling with CoH.......I take that back. 25. Forgot about Plague
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I love this game- so ill always try to take the toxicity away.
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Honest question, how much of the camping and tunneling is due to the (today nerfed) Circle of Healing and how much is just the Killers being campy tunnelers?
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if killer leaves a chase survivors gonna healed up in no time.
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true- but that's just killers excuse lately
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I think it's not because of CoH in any form.
I think it's still fallout from the SBMM that BHVR will never admit failed.
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It's...just the way the game works. Rule of 3 - if there are 4 survivors alive at 3 gens done, you're probably going to get destroyed. 1 survivor dead at 3 gens, it's your game to lose as a killer.
Now you could force the killer to never hook the same person twice and to make sure to two hook everyone before they kill anyone, but you'd have to completely redesign the game to account for this.
Barring that - it's the responsibility of you and the other survivors to ensure that damage is distributed evenly, not the killer.
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It's because it works. If survivors were better at being team players, it would be less effective, but when the killer comes chasing his target, everyone scatters like a high school party when the cops are called. Block the killer, blind/stun him whenever he's carrying the teammate and help your team out.
Or just come whine on the forums. I guess that works too.
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i mean im talking about 5 gen camp and tunnel... through DS and BT and others trying to take hits. its just sucky. and its happened to me 3 times in a row tonight. im looping like 3-4 gen pops at best but its inevitable.
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First off, while CoH's nerf is pretty impactful and it's nowhere near what it was on release, it still didn't address why CoH is bad for the hit and run strategy and why it hurts killers like Hag, Onryo, or Wraith who rely on split pressure. The issues with everyone getting infinite medkits, strong boon spots being infinitely reusable, etc, haven't gone away.
Second, tunneling was always a meta strategy - both by bad players who aren't skilled enough to catch multiple people in chase, and by considerably more skilled and win-focused players who want to get a 3v1 as soon as possible.
Basically, CoH was an excuse for something people were already doing. You might have had people who started tunneling because CoH killed their mains and kept doing it because they realized how strong it was, but tunneling didn't start with CoH and it sure as hell wasn't going to end with it.
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'Camp' and 'tunnel' are very, very different.
Camping someone at 5 gens is dirty pool - you're probably going to get 1-2k max.
Tunneling someone at 5 gens is just a good strategy - by the time you're at the EOGC, tunneling someone is a bit pointless :)
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and then killers being really toxic in end game chat- just adds to the cherry on top :D
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Toxicity's a player problem, not a survivor/killer problem. I mean, yeah, a killer that camps and tunnels the first hook is more likely to be nasty in EGC than the average player, but so are the members of a SWF that bring all flashlights/sabo or all BNPs.
Like, there's issues with dominant strategies in this game being distinctly unfun, but that isn't a community issue so much as it is a design issue.
(By the way, StarLost, I did a double take when I saw you back! I thought you'd gotten banned and I was genuinely upset when it happened - you're always one of my favorite posters to see around.)
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We don't tunnel only because of CoH, we tunnel because the most effective way of pursuing a victory is killing a survivor as fast as possible. Sometimes it's the only way. CoH is just an extra factor on deciding who to tunnel.
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I'm increasingly playing both sides these days (probably more survivor, as it takes me longer to get Iri 1 on) and - even accounting for the 4 v 1 difference - you're more likely to see a survivor acting the fool than the killer.
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People have been playing more "scummy" on both sides, to be fair -- its just more noticeable on the Killer side since Killers have way more of a presence. It's not a bad thing if you love competitive stuff -- both sides doing their absolute best, resorting to "cheap" tactics (ain't cheap if its legit and wins you games IMO) and etcetera, to win the game can be fun for some people.
But, y'know, most of us wanna play the game to have fun, chill matches, so more competitive-spirited people, or those who just can't be bothered trying, kind of ruin the fun. I think its an overall problem with how the game has developed over the years, rather than Killers or Survivors being little bastards.
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Nah there’s quite a few killers that don’t really care about COH.
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tunneling is good way to put pressure on survivors. you cant expect to killers chase different survivor after hooked someone. you just select 2 and chase after them till end game. and if you lucky you kill both of them before gates powered.
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I mean COH is kinda useless against 1 hit down killers anyways and especially the plague....
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If it makes anyone on this thread feel better. I have been tunneling and camping less since the nerf. I've seen noticeably less COH since the two speed reduction passes it took and my games feel significantly fairer. You know, despite the 7000 pallets, suped-up medkits, and 20 safe windows every map that takes up what feels to be an entire zip code.
But if I hear that boon sound in the distance, I'm finding that ######### and she's not coming off the hook.
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No, it's COH.. If i hear the boom of a boon then have fun lasting 10 seconds off that hook. If i can spread damage and actually slow down gens doing so, then i will, as i use to do before this abomination of a perk.
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Just because CoH got a nerf, doesn't mean the perk still isn't problematic.
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I stand corrected, sir.
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I mean killers have soo many gen slowing perks... but you have fun being the toxic problem
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I watch soo many streamers who spread out their hooks and manage to get 4ks... i mean are you all saying you need to tunnel to get a kill? (:
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So you hear a boon and decide to ruin someone’s game and be toxic. Ok.
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CoH still does the same, only a tiny bit slower.
Sadly healing too fast and gens done too fast. A lot of good loopers. If you want to win you have to try to get one out asap.
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Or play every day until you are as good as prof. players. But also they get wrecked sometimes.
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I don't consider camping someone as ruining their game. Just like it doesn't ruin my game when I'm a survivor and it happens to me.
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These perks can mostly be ignored or are negligible on normal killers.
Ruin- cleansed
Dead mans- does nothing if you don't let go, and if the killer chases you, then you wouldn't be doing the gen anyway.
Scourge hooks- let go before the killer hooks to avoid dead mans and continue like nothing happened
Corrupt- walk to a gen that isn't corrupted grants a little time, but not much.
Deadlock- killer lost a gen to block that one for 30 seconds. Doesn't stop you doing another gen and it can't be regressed.
I have had games where i didn't even know the killer had dead mans or scourge.
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The killer killing you is not toxic nor is your game being ruined.
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If being eliminated in an elimination based game "ruins your game" then this probably isn't the game for you. I'd say try fall guys, but you can be eliminated there as well.
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The big question when survivors complain about tunneling and camping is how much is survivor induced.
For example.
If i hook someone and i know someone is nearby im going to look for them. I'm not activly camping the hook im actively looking for another survivor i know is near by. Or they loop around the hook. This is survivor induced camping.
For tunneling a number of times someone gets unhooked. I go back to the hook to get the unhooker and they are no where to be seen. The only person left there is the one who has just been on the hook. I wouldnt just turn around and ignore them because that would be stupid so i go after them as its the only choice left. Again this is another situation were its survivor induced tunneling.
Some other examples of this is survivors using BT and/or DS as attacking perks by throwing themself at the killer then wondering why they get re-hooked and/or killed.
Also on the note of camping and tunneling here is the real truth. We are Killers. WE are the bad guy in this game and we will kill you however we want :)
(FYI i am not the sort to go out of my way to camp or tunnel someone unless its absolutly neccessary.)
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A game strategy used to win cannot be considered toxic, by any means.
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Nothing like starting this game after the new update and STILL having 1 gen pop within 80 seconds and 2 more within the first 2:30 minutes of the game. Survs will always complain that killers don't play by their rules and see the same perks but if you give them an inch of Daylight, you're going to get destroyed by all the surv sided mechanics, perks, maps, etc.
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People seem to forget that CoH is still at a known overpowered perk threshold:
It currently gives pre-nerf Selfcare(Which had to been nerf 3 times itself) to the entire team while also giving the strongest overall healing speed buff in the entire game.
The changes do not address the problem of it killing hit and run.
The Nerfs changed nothing as the perk is fundamentally problematic. As nothing short of a redesign, a complete gutting, or, boon mechanic change will ever make it not problematic.
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Just because a strong perk gets a mediocre nerf doesn't mean it'll make killers tunnel less. The fact they thought just nerfing its heal bonus would be enough shows they don't know how to balance CoH.
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🤫 plague is the only killer I play since the boons,if you highlight it she will be next on the nerf list.😀
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Thanks Laluzi! Yeah, I've been back for a while, but definitely on my last life forum wise. Just have to try to make sure that if I'm being obviously sarcastic about something, I mark it as sarcasm somehow :|.
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Tunneling is first and formost the result of imbalance in the objectives of both sides.
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Eh...
I'd replace 'tunneling' with 'snowballing' and you've hit it on the head.
This is a game of inches sometimes, where a small mistake on either side can compound into an inevitable loss.
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Most of the people complaining about tunneling are being chased for like 30 seconds before they go down. That is not tunneling. If a survivor goes around 2 3 loops, drops 2 pallets, ofc its gonna take time for the killer to catch up.
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sorry but tunneling isn't toxic its an effective strategy that good killers use to win, there isn't anything inherently toxic about it unless its used to harass a specific player (over multiple games)
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tunneling is neither a tactical play that requires situational game understanding or requires alot of individual skill.
The experience and understanding of a killer usually shines in a chase and what he choose to pressure situational but this is not rewarded currently. Its poor game design, that favorites poor gameplay and pathetic players.
Im pretty sure you could program the trapper bot from the tutorial into a basement bubba and he would beat 70 percent of the lobbys within 3 lines of program.
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Tunneling/camping/slugging will always exist no matter what side gets buffs/nerfs. It's a play style one can employ regardless of perks or add-ons.
When a killer gets run by a good survivor they camp, tunnel and slug to try and make up for it.
Hence why most killers camp/tunnel/slug. If survivors didn't bring BT, DS or Unbreakable they pay gravely. Hence why most survivors bring said perks.
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Its a strategy while it requires no inherent skill other than of the strategy as a barrier to entry, using it most effectively is up to the individuals skill. Knowing when to tunnel, who to tunnel, what to deal with when tunneling, what to play around when tunneling are all important factors of skill. Smart killers are rewarded for tunneling at the right time with a massive boost to their overall game pressure and can make up for difference in mechanical skill and limitations imposed by the tools a killer provides.
Decided that it shouldn't exist in the game because you don't like it just doesn't work at a fundamental level without also massively buffing the other side to now deal with the gaps created in their effectiveness in most matches.
You might not like tunneling but you also probably wouldn't like the game if everyone killer was at nurse level to make up for the difference that tunneling has in most matches. Its basically required at high levels unless there is that much of a gap between survivors and the killer.
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Ok I have to ask what you consider toxic.
Because after 3k hours, I can count the toxic endgame chat killers on 1 hand.
Anyway, on regard of the tunneling. If you see a gen at 90% and regressing. Do you finish it or will you go after that gen at 0%?
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I see so many killers tunneling one survivor until they're dead (Usually me) and then ending the game with one kill, and maybe 5 hooks if they're lucky.
If you get your first hook at 3 gens, your second hook at 1 gen, and then the third hook on the same survivor after the gates are powered and probably 99'd, tunneling is no longer efficient at that point.
See, I notice killers aren't pressuring gens. They'll ignore two survivors on a gen just for that tunnel. Killers really be sinking themselves.
Post edited by Kaitsja on2
