DAVID KING IS OFFICIALLY GAY
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But if the goal is to have something more substantial than simply making a character gay because of a marketing stunt, then surely you'd need to write something more substantial than just noting that a character has a partner of the same gender, right?
If you want some legitimate representation that's taken seriously, then for this game specifically, it'd be in a tome. Tomes, by and large, are for established characters, and if you're going to pick a character to expand on in this manner, who better than a character who is already considered a good pick by the community and is explicitly from an area with a huge LGBT community?
You say that a new character with a passing mention would be subtle, and surely that's not a good thing? Surely it'd be better, more impactful, more interesting representation if it actually matters and is relevant to a story being told?
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Yeah leave yui alone take Jonah
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I think you're misunderstanding, or I'm not understanding you. Like yes it would be interesting, matter, and relevant to the story of the character. Subtle as in "Not everything about this character is being gay and LGBT+" and not "We're making this character because we have to get a gay character". It's not really easy to describe professional story-writing as a person who hasn't studied professional story-writing, but what I am trying to get across is that it's easier to slap a "This is gay" sticker on an already made character, and then have in the next lore chapter "by the way I'm gay, and here's how it went" than it is to flesh out a whole new character with an elaborate story that apart of their background is being LGBT+ and that having some kind of impact (but not entirely what the character is about etc).
Maybe in simplest terms, take the time to research the LGBT+ community, their backgrounds, their stories, and more than just them being LGBT+. Create a character around that. Flesh out their reality, etc, story writing, character creation. Instead of just "this is gay" sticker like other game companies did.
Heck they could of brought a natural LGBT+ character to the game, and then just mentioned David's gay in his lore later on and that may have been more fitting, but it appears they chose to go slap a "I'm gay" sticker on a fan favorite and then announce like they did a good job. Then if it comes up that it was forced they turn around and make another character gay the same way because they don't understand what real representation is like. The connected feeling you get with the character reading their lore for the first time, and inclusiveness - I can't really describe it because again I am not a professional writer, that can explain great character creation.
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I'd play a gender fluid character! That'd be amazing
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I'm not mad about that at all. I live for this art ;)
Hey now I'm a bear, not a twink ;)
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I'm thoroughly amused at people getting tilted over this.
Oh, to lead such a blessed and worry free life.
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While I certainly see the value in what you're describing, I think there's a gigantic chasm between what we ended up with and it being "slapping a sticker" onto a character.
David makes sense as the character they chose for this, and depending on how the tome is written, it could be just as impactful and stirring as a new character designed around being LGBT - hell, it could be more than a new character, because people already know, identify with, and like David King. There's merit and value in expanding on existing characters in this way, it isn't inherently cheap or crass marketing.
That's not to say I don't think they should also be making new LGBT characters. I'm just saying that since expanding on existing characters is fine in theory, it makes sense to do that first since it's the tactic they can use to write a more direct and interesting story. They have more room to do it properly, and it's more of a big show for those who've been waiting for it.
Either tactic can be fine, and they should absolutely utilise both going forward. I empathise with feeling burned before with games like Overwatch, but context does matter and this is what doing it right would look like on BHVR's end.
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ditto.
same for a character who uses they/them pronouns.
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🤦🏼🤦🏼🤦🏼
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My personal take (as a pansexual man) is that it's amazing they finally did this!
However, I feel a bit weird about this one... Is it because it's like a coming out, where you learn a big thing about someone? Is it because they shouted the news from the top of Mt Everest and posted the big announcement on Twitter, instead of just creating the tome? Idk why, but it's probably the first. I'm always surprised to hear people coming out, I guess it's part of the fact that I live in a hyper-homophobic country so I'm not accustomed to hearing other people are LGBT other than me...
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Finally, I can ship David King with Soldier 76
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What I dont seem to understand is people hanging on that fact that one of his exes is a woman. Gay men generally dont pop out of the womb and scream at the top of their lungs that they are gay. It can take a long time to find out what/who you are into. Personally speaking as a gay man I have had a girlfriend in the past and that relationship made me relize I was in fact gay(we are still friends but we like to joke that she made me gay) The point is that throughout life, people change and learn more about themselves. Not to mention that depending on how you were raised(like a lot of closeted gay men in the bible belt) at a young age, you are forced to learn certain things that are expected normal. Sometimes certain families take it too far and in turn those men who are too afraid to come out end up staying in the closet their entire lives.
TLDR: Maybe he was experimenting or maybe the ex was before he found himself out to be gay? People change my dudes.
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This. My dad is gay, he didnt fully understand it until after I was born.
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Neat! To be honest, I was expecting it to be either David, Felix or Ji-Woon if any pre-existing character was announced to be a member of the LGBTQ+ community, so this didn't come off as too much of a shock for me.
This isn't something tremendous, but it's the little things, ya know? I'm pretty happy about this announcement!
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you did Karu :3
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Oh no I'm entirely with you on this; it took until literally today for me to have been in a gay relationship that's lasted longer than a straight one (and I'm massively gay). Was just correcting the comment that said he'd never had one- honestly I think this'll make his story more interesting.
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I did Turbo :3
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This thread is partially positivity, partially a hellhole of people not letting other people be happy for whatever reason.
Knowing this community, I can't be surprised.
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It doesn't matter to me too much that they do this, but I do think it would've meant a lot more if there was a fresh new character that they put time and effort in that was part of the LGBTQ+ community instead of just saying a long-time pre-existing character is now just confirmed as gay.
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Good luck with this thread, Mods.
More gays please :)
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why would it mean more? a character im attached to has been confirmed as gay; i actually much prefer this to a brand new one. imagine if theyd made jonah gay, ew.
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Yes. They took an old character that has already sold well as a dlc and the skins, that just so happens to be the subject of many fan fic's. turned him gay and called it a day.
Pandering complete, and they don't need to worry about selling the dlc and skins, so it's safe for the company's wallet. If they don't just release straight people from now on i will take it back. But it seems like this is it.
No risk and they look like the good guy after years of people bugging them.
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LET'S GO
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The narrative with this has been interesting because of how many people are saying this is essentially nothing but riskless pandering, but it's stirred up an abhorrent amount of drama for a character that they're not likely to see a fresh slew of financial returns on either. David's not behind a paywall. You likely already have cosmetics for him if you wanted them. It did have risk, very clearly, and internally I'm certain that they were aware of it. It really isn't likely to benefit them a whole heck of a lot either.
I know sexuality retconning has happened all over the place and has been frowned upon, but DBD ultimately started out as a game starved of lore and characterization beyond just setting a modicum of framing for perks and powers. It simply didn't need much of it in the first place. We got a couple of surveys asking if expanding on story elements was something we wanted, and unless I'm mistaken the average answer was yes (mine included), and honestly it's been largely for the better even if it is a background element.
We have a number of characters that have been improved upon considerably with tome updates (Doctor, Trickster), and a few characters desperately needing further touch ups even if it requires substantial retconning ( I am looking at you, Hag ). David isn't exactly an established icon without room for exploration. This is no different than any other story aspect, unless you let yourself be bothered by it and jump to negativity out of your own volition. There's a lot of assuming of what the intention was here, and what other people's reaction might be, but ultimately all of the conflict comes of as unapologetically silly.
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Remember when the Pride charms dropped, and the multitude of posts about homophobia and players claiming they were being 'targeted' for using them? I'm hoping there isn't a repeat of that.
Post edited by Rivyn on0 -
tbf i say this bc i dislike jonah lore (also jake/david just think it through) but also theres this one person on twitter that had a meltdown over a kingfield christmas card bc dwight "wasn't gay" and "wouldn't betray [them] like that" and she's now moved onto jonah so itd be funny on second thoughts
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I feel weird that they made a big announcement on social media, and I hope there will be other inclusive content in the future, but I'm generally happy with this.
IRL, people are complicated, and identifying as gay doesn't always mean you never had an opposite-sex partner, or never liked your opposite-sex partner, or never identified as anything else. So, it doesn't bother me in terms of back story, and I'm interested to see what's in the Tome.
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Yes. All of this. I want Jonah and David 2gether4ever 😭😭😭😭
I hate to admit it, but I'm legit giddy about this. Before Jonah, I mained David cuz he's hotty mchottiepants. Now I think Jonah is hotter (shirtless Jonah pls), but I'm going to play David more.
Legit, thank you BHVR. People like to make fun of us when some of us appreciate representation, but it really is a thing. I'm 43, came out when I was 14. When I played games (back in my day *shakes fist at sky*) we almost never had gay characters in games. Im not kidding when I say, being able to play someone like yourself, even if that part of you has NOTHING to do with the game, still feels good. It's the default for straight people, you just assume. So being able to go "hey, this character I'm playing is hot AND plays on my team? ######### yeah!"
Ys, it's rainbow washing, and I fully admit that. But it still feels really ######### good, all the same.
(And yes, before anyone says it, I AM A 14 year old girl trapped in an old gay man's body. I fully admit it.)
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so ok with is he was alway my top main.
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I 100% understand this being in the tomes. But I'm not sure why it's such a big deal to blow up about.
I understand that representation is important, but the characters in DbD are devoid of romantic or sexual interests.
Something like this is paramount in Role Playing Games where interaction and romance are integral parts of the story.
But I can't really understand where this direction is supposed to be.
Is this important or not?
If it's not important, why are we all here blowing it up like gay people are super rare? If it's not important, why should we all be getting excited about it? Why was it important enough to devote team resources to?
If it is important, why is this all that we have? Why was it a half baked attempt to garner favor with a particular community? Why isn't this some sort of larger event?
It's important enough to go through the pipeline, but not important enough to do anything more than have things half-baked.
Salutes to all of the LGBT+ members of our community. I just can't tell if I'm supposed to feel happy for all of you for getting representation, or bad for you that it's such a half-hearted attempt at it.
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Has anyone read the times yet? How the hell does anyone know if it's half-baked or not?
Until we find out conically how he comes out, maybe we should reserve our judgement for "how" they made him gay.
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surprise David comes out before Nea I mean come on.
btw they both my mains.
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Not that it matters to me who's gay in this game and who isn't. it's a game and shouldn't matter. It feels to me that they just put all the survivors on a board and threw darts. which ever one got hit was made gay. I honestly don't know why this is a big deal.
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Regarding your 'representation in a horror game' comment which I've seen in different guises quite often, there seems to be this implication or assumption that representation doesn't matter when it's a horror game that's not about sexuality at all. I can sort of understand where people are coming from with that, but think of it from the other perspective - straight people don't even think about representation, because 99.9% of everything already represents them by default. It's not even a factor in their lives and therefore a lot of straight people can't seem to grasp why it matters to other people and why it's important. If it truly doesn't matter to you, be glad that it doesn't, and move on. It does astonish me when people complain about representation as if it's over-representing, the common phrase 'shoving it down our throats' etc without acknowledging that non-straight people have heterosexuality 'shoved down our throats' literally constantly, since birth - you just don't see it.
Get some self-awareness and check your privilege.
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Definitely what I was thinking
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Or, you know, it really does not matter which genitals a character likes to touch? And no, 99,9% of everything does not represent heterosexuals. Especially nowadays where representation is forced everywhere. Why should everything that does not scream „I‘m gay“ be heterosexual? Many characters could be gay all along, or not, it just does not matter at all.
But I know, I am so „privileged“ and ignorant that it just makes me blind.
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It's possibly one of the better made stories, if not one of the best. And it's also really heartbreaking. Worth the read.
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well the was a leak on youtube of the new tome story looks good.
tho it just 3 min video show a bit.
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I've read the story and it's really good
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You just don't get it. No worries, maybe you will one day and maybe you won't. It makes little sense for me to continue this conversation so I wish you well, and just to say that when people from a marginalised group are trying to express why they feel a particular way about something, it would benefit everyone if people not of that group were to listen with an open mind and not immediately shout them down and say they are wrong. We are so very tired.
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Because they want to cater to those cringy fanfics
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...I suggest you read the whole thread before posting takes like this.
Or any of the other threads about this.
Or, y'know, read anything about why representation is important.
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Failed marketing tactic because of massive player loss it's pretty obvious. Nothing complex about it.
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Bhvr has been finessing the LGBTQ for years that's why no one is surprised they did it the way they did it. *Laughs in money *
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So... you're just pessimistic. Okay then.
It's really not complex, no. And it is pretty obvious what's going on.
Y'know what it is?
The thing that's being said that's done.
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Or maybe I get it and just do not agree? No wait, that is not possible. It can't be.
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I'll see if I can go find it. I'm always up for a good tearjerker.
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Huh.
Feels like more media than needed for sexuality. Feels like Dumbledore announcement all over again.
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Didn't they literally just go
"representation good, David gay."
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I genuinely don't understand why this is something people care about- Can't a character like what they like? Why did they need to bring attention to it as though being gay is some strange phenomenon. Isn't that going backwards in a way? You know, how it's meant to be equal treatment for everyone? Didn't see Yoichi having "He likes women," as part of his story.
Think it would have been better to have in the tomes a mention of him and his boyfriend. That's it; something in passing to be like, "Oh, he's gay. Huh." Rather than just coming out a tweet with, "HEY! WE GOT A GAY GUY NOW! LOOK AT HIM AND HIS GAYNESS!"
Before anyone tries it, I'm not homophobic; I just genuinely don't see why people should care. Personally I'd rather enjoy characters for their story and design, rather than what they like to bang.
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