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Why shouldn't a killer tunnel?
Asking a killer to not tunnel is like telling a survivor "hey don't do that gen, travel to the other end of the map and do that one. Why do you wanna complete all gens so fast? Let the killer have some fun too"
Isn't it pretty much the same thing?
Comments
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In fairness to survivors, they can't exactly do anything about a killer hard-tunnelling them unless they bring one specific perk, or hope that their teammate brought the other specific perk that helps against tunnelling.
Tunnelling is a legitimate strategy for killers to employ, but because it's a legitimate strategy, there should be a basekit answer to it. That's my view, anyway.
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This. Precisely.
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Not wrong I think the biggest problem is tunneling straight from the hook but I would say that isn't even a tunnel problem but either a camping problem or a team problem. The killer can tunnel straight from hook because he is near it so he either camps and then it's really a camping problem or your mate made a stupid unhook and in this case you can't blame the killer for taking a present you know
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They can body block for their team mates and go down instead. My point is that tunneling and "gen rushing" is basically the same thing, trying to complete your objective as fast as possible even if it ruins somebody else's experience.
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Another broken killer logic. Sigh.
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As others have alluded to, tunneling can often be a loadout or teammate problem. It can feel frustrating if teammates are being too aggressive with unhooks, insist on healing under a hook instead of in a safe place, etc.
I always feel like gens going quickly is a me problem. But I don't always feel like being tunneled is a me problem.
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The similarity is clearly there, you just don't wanna admit it cuz you only play one side, and you're entitled.
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Gen rushing is what it is because of camping and tunneling.
And camping and tunneling is what it is because of gen rushing.
It's all boring gameplay that the DEVs need to fix.
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The only reason is because you are prioritizing gen defense, the survivor is too strong of a looper / in too safe of an area, or you have perks that reward you for spreading damage
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There is absolutely no similarity, but keep on imagining things to rant. Its obviously the only thing killer players on this forum can do.
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Atleast the first 2 gens can be done back to back on one side of map while easily avoiding the 3 gen. Try again, you're talking like a 10 hour survivor main who just learnt the phrase "3 gen"
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You know exactly what they meant. They meant when why should I search for another surv when I see you injured and on last hook? Tunneling straight from the hook is another thing and has its own reasons.
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Came to say This^^^
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Gen Rushing is not a thing. It will only happen if you camp, otherwise you could pressure gens and get survivors off of them. Maybe you are just not as good as you 🤔
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Cuz it's a really boring way to play the game. If that doesn't bother you feel free to do so. Personally I don't cuz I like chasing different survivors and seeing what they'll do.
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What others have said above
And also if they know what they are doing then tunnelling is throwing the match basically
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IF they fixed maps so they were a little more fair to killers. I might agree DS and BT should be basekit.
They are fixing maps to be more fair to killers.
This isn't an us vs them issue and making it so prevents the developers from fixing issue.
This is a game design flaw.
Killers do not need to bring in a perk to face-camp or tunnel-off-hook-till-dead, it's basekit. However survivors not only have to bring in a perk, they have to go through a paywall (Bloodpoint and/or Cash) to get those perks. If one side has something that is basekit, then the other side should have basekit counters.
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The basekit answer is effective tile chaining to increase the time it takes for the inevitable to happen. If you can make the majority of killers have to spend a minute or longer chasing you when their hard tunneling then you're good as long as your team does gens.
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I didn't say that the effects of those perks should be basekit, I said survivors need something. In my opinion, the best option is a few seconds of no collision, so there's still a benefit to bringing both of the perks that currently protect against tunnelling if you want to but you don't need to for people to be able to exercise some control over the chase.
Agreed. That's why something to protect survivors for a few seconds is the best call, so they have the breathing room to start chaining tiles effectively and their skill can actually mean something.
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Tunneling is a pointless buzzword. The vast majority of people I see who complain about “tunneling” after a game are simply sore losers because they happened to get downed twice in a row or I continued chasing them after I hit them or ignored a bodyblock, etc. I have yet to see any actual reason why so called “tunneling” is even a well defined thing let alone a problem.
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That's where we diverge in opinion. That's the point where perks, luck, and/or teamwork need to be key factors at play and this me speaking as a person who primarily plays survivor these days. I don't want anything that would be better suited as a perk as basekit because keep in mind that anything you make basekit needs to be substantially weaker than it would be otherwise.
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The problem with that is that if perks are a key factor in this instance, something that you have no control over and that is a very efficient way for your opponent to play, that means there's a heavy incentive to use that one perk, which means that one perk can't be shaken out of the meta by buffing other perks nor can you justify nerfing it.
Perks that cover for basekit gaps, like the inability to do anything about being tunnelled if it happens within a few seconds of being unhooked, are a problem. They're part of why the survivor meta has been so stale for such a long time; sure, Dead Hard and Iron Will and Circle of Healing are just very strong perks, but Unbreakable, Decisive Strike, and Borrowed Time have been meta because you almost feel punished for not running them when you inevitably face a killer that tunnels (or slugs, in the case of Unbreakable).
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That's like saying that tunneling isn't a thing because Survivors can hammer out gens to get Killers to stop harrassing the same one Survivor.
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oooh Im gonna start using that line thanks
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A lot of the time I get accused of Tunneling if I just happen upon the last survivor I hooked before having a chance to hook someone else, regardless.
Like if I hook a Meg, and a Dwight unhooks her and I chase the Dwight a bit but he's a great looper so I let him go to patrol gens and then I come across that Meg again.
I'm not just going to leave her on a generator and think "Oh well, that's not technically fair."
It's just bad luck for her.
I do think Borrowed Time should just be a thing. If you're fresh off the hook you shouldn't be able to be downed literally right in front of the hook like that. Take a hit, get a speed burst, get away.
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"I do think Borrowed Time should just be a thing. If you're fresh off the hook you shouldn't be able to be downed literally right in front of the hook like that. Take a hit, get a speed burst, get away."
Like everything else tested in game survivors would abuse this heavily.
If you think hook swarming is bad now, just think back to Og Freddy and how he could not stop an unhook, thats what it would be x100
Unhooking in front of the killer should never be 100% safe, they already made BT whether or not killer is there and thats enough
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Would rather tunnel and make it 3 man so I will have breathing room.
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It's worth noting that just because a killer downs you a second time without downing someone else, or chases you for a bit longer than someone else, etc., it's not necessarily because they're trying to tunnel.
Sometimes you're just the weak link of your group. Maybe you're less experienced or haven't practiced looping as much, or maybe you don't know how to deal with certain killers effectively, or maybe you're just having a rough day and aren't playing your best. And that's fine. But if you're an easy target and the killer isn't currently dealing with other survivors or needs to drop a chase that will go on forever, you can't blame them for going after the weak link.
Sometimes you just keep getting found when you're injured and your teammates are playing super safe and won't stop running to the nearest strong loop while ineffectually t-bagging to try to grab the killer's attention. Sometimes you're playing too bold because you have a bunch of second chance perks, or are playing too risky to try to get one over on the killer. Sometimes killers come back to recent unhooks to try to find the person unhooking (i.e. with Make Your Choice) but only find you instead.
If you're in a position where you're an easy target or a free hit while your teammates are not, the killer would be throwing to not at least take a hit. Very friendly killers or ones that are trying to be relaxed and casual will probably either slug you and let your teammate pick you up or leave you be entirely, but for anyone who's trying to pip up or generally playing to win, a free hit is a free hit, and a free hook is a free hook.
I'd say it should only be classified as "tunneling" when the killer is going out of their way to ignore your teammates and pressuring gens to keep finding you to get you out of the game ASAP, and there are 3 or 4 of you remaining. If the killer downs you not too long after you've been unhooked, it's not necessarily because they're trying to do this, but could be that you made a mistake and/or made yourself too appealing of a target. Tunneling and camping are so vaguely defined by the overall community that I've even been accused of "tunneling and camping" in 12 hook merciless killer games. I've been accused of "tunneling and camping" while playing friendly and letting everyone go at the end. There are just people out there who need something to complain about, so they'll accuse you of tunneling and/or camping regardless of how you actually played in the match, because the terms are so poorly defined that they could mean anything.
TLDR because I need to stop writing essays; tunneling and camping, while they are legitimate issues, need to be better defined by the community and both terms should stop being used to describe everything a killer does if people want these issues to be taken seriously.
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Not to tunnel usually means to actively roleplay. If this game were less toxic and had something going on besides the binary win/lose condition then, sure, I could see not tunneling. Even camping in many situations requires me to willingly take a handicap.
The only reasons to not tunnel from a competitive standpoint are for tactical reasons (down to two survivors and you want to slug the one you see as a bigger threat etc).
As it stands, not tunneling almost always results in less chance for victory on the killer's side. This is a design flaw in the game that survivors are actively complaining to killers to make up the difference for. It's not the killers job to do so, it's the dev's job.
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It's not really breathing room really. If you manage to tunnel out 1 player before 3 gens are done, you've won the game. It's not like tunneling out someone makes the game somewhat easier, it pretty much wins you the game and the rest of the game is just clean up.
Tunneling-off-hook-till-dead is a game-ending strategy, that much power being basekit should mean the other side has basekit counters to it.
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Speaking for myself, I try not to tunnel as killer because it's the one thing I most hate running into Survivor, so I make an effort not to inflict it on others when I play the other side. I'm not above slugging off-hook if the chance presents itself, since barring Soul Guard or Exponential it's pressure whatever happens (force them to mend BT or use their Unbreakable, or force someone to stop what they're done to pick them up)
To my view, Dead by Daylight is, first and foremost, a game, and everyone playing a game deserves to be able to get fun out if it, win or lose. I've generally gotten positive responses for this in endgame chat, even when using killers like the Twins.
I can only do so much about those players who find their fun in griefing the other side and/or their own, so I don't worry too much unless I run into them. Then it's case by case.
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You cannot "heavily abuse" Borrowed Time.
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Is it really fun for me when the match ends after 3 minutes with 4K on 5 gens?
I find it boring to tunnel from the start, I have a self-imposed rule. I'm starting to tunnel on 2 gens. Either it's enough to turn the game around, or if not then not. I don't need every match 3K or 4K, why would I want that? That would only get me faster into high mmr where all the killer squads are lurking.
It's weird. As a survivor I'd like to be in high mmr because the changes of getting better teammates in high mmr are higher in solo queue, but as a killer I'm happy if I can stay out of high mmr. That's why I'm not fixated on winning, which is probably why I'm more chilled.
And I know it's hard for survivors (especially solos who aren't super good players aka loopers) to earn BP because I also play survivor myself. I know the pain on both sides, so I think I behave a little more empathetically. Maybe also because I'm an emphatic person in real life, that's just part of me.
I don't want to tunnel a player right at the beginning of the game, that means 100% 2K or 3K BP max and a minus pip.
And the grind is so insane.
I don't feel good when I realize that only I enjoy the match and only I get points.
But that's just me
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It is, and I absolutely think more survivors should do that. Trying to blast out gens in four minutes and leaving is the most boring way to play survivor IMO, same as camping and tunneling as killer.
That being said there is nothing wrong with either strategy, if you want to play that way.
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So your argument is their teammates need to hand the killer a free down to not tunnel? Which most of the time will just give the killer two downs when they till tunnel.
As for the original question. The same reason survivors shouldn't constantly bring the best items and addons/perks. It makes the game boring and miserable for the other side.
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the thing is when u see 3 to 4 gen regression perks all the time plus best addons pretty much every game from the killer the only way to play is by bringing the strongest stuff u can aswell. is a circle.
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Personally i try not to tunnel, but if i can't find anyone and the person who saved decides to hide in a bush instead of taking aggro, i'm not saying no to a easier down and free pressure
Killers won't stop tunnelling if they really want someone dead, but the other survivors can at the very least try and make the killer waste some time
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Something something making it "fair" for the survivors while in a 4v1 situation.
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Personally, I don't have an issue with tunnelling unless it's paired with camping.
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Completely disagree. It'll be harder, but you need to be the change you want to see.
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Tunelling is pretty much always the most efficient thing for a killer to do. Even with BT and DS existing, it's -still- the best of way of gaining control of the match and always will be until they redesign the hook-stage system.
When hooking 1 survivor 3 times is stronger than spreading out 8 hooks, why would you -not- tunnel?
They either need to completely change how hook-states work, or make hook-states give a stacking debuff to a survivor's gen-speed.
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not really. when u try different things the wall is there to remind you, also i dont want to change my meta perks anyway, i like them, m2 killers are there and meta perks are the only way to counter them, and killers love playing them, the game is far from anything else, the game will die this way aswell.
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You do you.
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This is true in most circumstances, but if you're a low mobility killer and the team all bring Prove Thyself, toolboxes, spools, BNPs, etc. and 3 gens pop before you're even halfway through your first sweep of the map, it can sure feel like it.
Gen speeds are quick, and killer's slowdown basekit isn't as string as it should be. But the counterplay is slowdown perks, which are the only answer for much of the killer roster, so don't be salty when you see those stacked.
Many like to say that they are forced to run BT, DH, DS, but in the same vein the meta forces many killers to stack slowdown.
The reality is that if you're a killer, and "winning" (what that means is subjective, which is another issue) is important to you, tunneling and turning the game into a 3v1 as early as possible is just the smart and obvious play. Camping is a more complicated, but the discussion around tunneling is much more straightforward.
One of DBD's biggest problems is that the meta effectively narrows your options down on both sides, and that efficient play on either side is regarded as toxic, "unfun", or "boring" by the other.
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And for gen rushing you have a hundred of perk, but for avoiding camping and tunneling you have 1 each, and not really good. Only meta because you don’t have anything else
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Agreed. That's what I did to get Red 1 as killer. it's what the game tells you to do. no way I let them heal up in like 8 second or so. If they finish gens before i got my 1st kill, nice. you just gen rush me and finish the game in within 6 mins. good job holding mouse 1 on gens. hope you enjoy the game. :D
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Tunneling is much easier than gen rushing. Since you are in your own, You can take this shortcut door (tunneling) any sec you want. Unlike gen rushing you need to co-op with randoms who may do it or may not.
But ofc everyone should play the way they want. If tunneling is something you enjoy do it.
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and killers with 3 to 4 gen regression perks all time non stop + purple to iridiscent addons aswell non stop. its a circle, people adapt to the meta that everyone likes to use... killers like to feel extremely powerfull every game so survivors have to adapt and bring the strongest thing they can to survive. and is a shame there are a ton of survivor perks that could be fun, non of them used cause killers wont change their playstile and their perks neither.
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And rushing gens and exploiting loops and big maps are also legitimate strategies that killers have no basekit answer for. So maybe Ruin/Pop should be basekit also. And Brutal Strenght and NOED too.
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Rushing gens, sure, but there's no "exploiting" loops and I don't think I need to explain how "big maps" isn't a strategy. Also, the perks you're suggesting wouldn't even fix those problems?
Maps should be shrunk and some loops should be adjusted, it's not a "perk made basekit" situation. This is a really poor attempt at drawing an equivalence, honestly.
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