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Why are hook stages hidden from the killer ?

IWantCandys
IWantCandys Member Posts: 179
edited May 2022 in General Discussions

I haven't been playing DBD as long as some others here, but since owning the game and playing Killer (a few months), I wonder something.

I'm wondering why as a killer I can't see the survivor's hook stages.

As a survivor, I can see how many times my team has been hooked, but not as a killer.


Can you please enlighten me. What are the reasons for that ?

The only reason I can think of is that seeing the hook stages might encourage the killer to tunnel.

But that's what killers do anyway.


I find it really frustrating sometimes when, for example, I have the goal of hooking every survivor twice and don't want to kill anyone beforehand, but then get confused and accidentally kill someone just because so much is happening in the match and I've therefore forgotten which survivor already was on the hook and how many times they were on the hook.

Or if, in rare cases, you play a farming match with survivorn to relax a bit in between, and then at some point I am afraid to hook someone because I could accidentally kill the person.


I would really like to know why only one site is allowed to see the hook stages and what other killers think about it.

Would you like to see it or not ?

Post edited by IWantCandys on
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Comments

  • MB666
    MB666 Member Posts: 968

    "I'm wondering why as a killer I can't see the survivor's hook stages"

    -I most of the time dont defend the survivor side lately but .....sadly salty people exist...what means they will tunnel hard if they know what survivors is already on second stage, i think thats the reason.

    "Or if, in rare cases, you play a farming match with survivorn to relax a bit in between, and then at some point I am afraid to hook someone because I could accidentally kill the person."

    -I know that feeling XD especially when there is 2 or more people wearing the same skin.

  • Lynxx
    Lynxx Member Posts: 510

    You say so you don't accidentally kill the person while many would use it to 'accidentally' tunnel the one on death hook.

    Really though as a killer you should easily be able to recall how many times you hooked someone. There's only four survivors.

  • Sumnox
    Sumnox Member Posts: 605

    I mean, most of them go out of their way to remove 1 survivor from the game with 5 gens left, and they don't show hooks.


    Now imagine if it did show hooks.

  • sizzlingmario4
    sizzlingmario4 Member Posts: 6,984

    It‘s an anti-tunneling measure and quite frankly it’s good that it doesn’t show it.

  • sizzlingmario4
    sizzlingmario4 Member Posts: 6,984

    From a game health perspective, there is no downside to the survivors having the more detailed information readily available to them. I also think it’s easier for the killer to remember despite them having to micromanage more things, because they are the ones actually doing the chasing and hooking.

  • selflessnea
    selflessnea Member Posts: 580

    I think part of the issue was that if someone got saved last second before struggle you wouldn't know if they went second stage or not.

    And yeah @Lynxx, it is pretty easy to forget what hook state survivors are on while playing killer if you are playing rather chill. I have several games where I have been surprised someone was on death hook without knowing each night I play.

  • Ryan489x
    Ryan489x Member Posts: 1,502

    The real question is, why are killer perks still hidden until the end of a match?


    I know why they did it don't get me wrong. However if I'm playing solo I'd like to see what I was up against when I get tunneled out of a game in less then 2 minutes and not have to wait till the end.


    Also as a survivor I can call about 3 of the 4 perks in game anyway so I don't think it's really a big deal to keep them hidden anymore.

  • sizzlingmario4
    sizzlingmario4 Member Posts: 6,984

    There is no way to change that without being able to take advantage of it. And you cannot always identify perks during the match depending on what the killer is using.

    Even if you’re playing solo for example let’s say one of your teammates is a TTV streamer, what’s to stop you from going to their channel after you die and saying “the killer has noed and a full endgame build”?

  • Seraphor
    Seraphor Member Posts: 9,428

    That's the thing. Anyone trying to tunnel will know who they hooked. They're tunnelling, tunnel vision kinda comes with the territory.

    But if you're just trying to have a normal game and try not to tunnel, it's a lot harder to keep track of the hook progress of 4 survivors simultaneously.

    So hiding hook states actually promotes tunnelling, accidental tunnelling.

  • Ryan489x
    Ryan489x Member Posts: 1,502
    edited May 2022

    I don't play like that but if you're going to use the streamer argument, what about the killers who stream snipe and swear they're not. How fair is that?

  • QueenSaccharine
    QueenSaccharine Member Posts: 37

    I'm sorry, but if someone puts "TTV" in their name, they're making it easier for people to stream snipe them. I don't know how much of an advantage being able to see a single survivor's screen with a 30 second delay or something actually is, but, c'mon. If you want your teammates to know you're streaming, just say "I'm streaming lol" in the pregame chat.

    There's also people who will put TTV in their name and then accuse anyone who wins against them of stream sniping. They're probably not even streaming half the time. Thankfully I haven't encountered this myself but I hear it's common and has been for a long time.

  • sizzlingmario4
    sizzlingmario4 Member Posts: 6,984

    Stream sniping is equally stupid.

    It doesn’t matter whether you’d take advantage of seeing the killer’s perks like that or not, if the possibility is there, someone will do it.

  • Thusly_Boned
    Thusly_Boned Member Posts: 2,978

    Absolutely. "I was stream sniped!" is a pre-loaded excuse for a lot of streamers. I've seen many times where a surv stream was certain they were sniped and absolutely indignant about it, but never for a second considered the killer's powers, perks, blood trails, etc.

    Frankly, a lot of the time the stream sniping excuse is a cover for the fact that there's a lot they don't know about the game, and of course some of those times they legit don't know why they were found/hit, even when there is a clear explanation.

    And of course a lot of that just ties into the natural tendency to want to deflect responsibility, which we all suffer from.

    But right or wrong, if you put the .ttv in your name, baggage is gonna come with it, and streamers have to make their peace with that.

  • Icaurs
    Icaurs Member Posts: 542

    Its a way to discourage tunnelling. They are hopping by not seeing who has been hooked, you will lose track and increase your chance of chasing somebody who hasn't been hooked. It may not be that effective, but it is an attempt. The question is why do you need to see survivors hook counters?

    If you say (well I want to chase everyone evenly and I may lose track). If you have made a sincere attempt, but have lost track and by chance gone after the same person, then that's fine. Nobody can fault you for that, and if they do, you did nothing wrong. You said you need it for challenges. It is called a (challenge). It is called a challenge, it may take a couple of games and that's ok, not all of them should be done on your first attempt.

    The fact is there is no valid reason for killers too need to see survivors hook counter.

  • Alphasoul05
    Alphasoul05 Member Posts: 601
    edited May 2022

    They've stated it's to prevent tunneling, which makes no sense because tunneling means you're going to target one person regardless so you're not going to have multiple people hooked to pick and choose. It's not like it's that hard to remember who is what hook state so at the end of the day it's not there for the killers because of reasons that make no sense. The idea that it would make it easier is ridiculous but that's probably because I'm capable of simple awareness and math.

  • Chaos999
    Chaos999 Member Posts: 869

    Yeah. Sometimes I just don't feel like killing the survivors, but I accidentally do. Would be great to be able to see them.

  • Lx_malice
    Lx_malice Member Posts: 1,417

    They say it's not shown to prevent the killer from tunneling, but what they really mean is they want to prevent the killer from seeing who's been hooked twice even if they aren't even tunneling. Why? Because they don't want you to realize you can kill them right away in endgame because you had hooked them twice earlier during the match already. If the killer really wants to tunnel then they are going to remember who they are tunneling. The killer is NOT tunneling just because the game reminds them that they had hooked someone else twice earlier during the match.

    There really is no reason to hide it. I even sometimes have the same problem as you and accidentally kill someone too early because I'm just on autopilot for the match.

  • Ryuhi
    Ryuhi Member Posts: 3,856
    edited May 2022

    its an arbitrary decision where the "damned if you do" (survivors could be tunnelled) outweighs the "damned if you don't" (yet another thing to have to keep track of mentally, while also ironically making it harder to not accidentally tunnel people)

    just another classic "we don't want to change it because someone could use it to be mean," unlike seizure inducing flashlight macros obviously.

  • Lynxx
    Lynxx Member Posts: 510
    edited May 2022

    Survivors don't often witness each other being hooked so there's little visual to differentiate them leaving their screams which again, inexperienced survivors won't know the difference between them beyond male vs. female.

    And since they are considered on the same 'team' that information is therefore provided to their 'team'.

  • PleassBuiltInNoed
    PleassBuiltInNoed Member Posts: 618

    Tbh most of the times I don't remember who I hooked, I barely ever pay attention to the characters unless they have some cosmetics that make them stand out

  • Lynxx
    Lynxx Member Posts: 510

    I guess I've never had that problem as killer, especially if I'm concerned about accidentally killing someone.

  • Ryuhi
    Ryuhi Member Posts: 3,856

    and if you're going against 4 claudettes with the exact same cosmetics, what do killers get to be able to tell them apart?

  • WesCravenFan
    WesCravenFan Member Posts: 2,638

    People say it is to prevent tunnelling, but that is garbage.


    Tunnelling is based on opportunity, not checking for hook states. Tunnelling is "That Meg I already hooked just ran right in front of me" or "I now that David doesn't have BT, so he just farmed that Jane."


    Letting Killers see the hook states would actually let people that WANT to spread hook states around do so. It is much easier for a tunneller to track ONE Survivor they are already focusing on in their heads than a more fair played killer to track FOUR.

  • lauraa
    lauraa Member Posts: 3,195

    the hooks are bugged, even for the survivors atm

  • katoptris
    katoptris Member Posts: 3,201

    Honestly it doesn't matter if they show the hook count. I tend to keep track of who on death hook.

  • NekoGamerX
    NekoGamerX Member Posts: 5,298

    I keep track of who I've hooked but I do feel killer should see it because it wont change much.

    it making farming easier I wont kill someone I didn't want to.

  • Adjatha
    Adjatha Member Posts: 1,814

    Because Survivors need Hand Holding and while Killers get a hand, but it tends to be the backside of it.

  • EntityNea
    EntityNea Member Posts: 186

    If you got tunneled out of the game in 2 minutes then it doesn't matter what perks you were going up against because you never really went up against it :)

    Killer perks need to be hidden, if you really want to know what they had then you gotta wait until the end. The only way to change this would be for the game to save our match history and allow us to go back and see it after the match is fully over

  • EntityNea
    EntityNea Member Posts: 186

    Question to the killers here who say they want to see hook stages to prevent accidentally killing survivors during farming matches:

    Do survivors, once they know it's a farming match, ever help you out by gesturing?

    Me and my friends usually take turns walking up to the hook and point at it to show the killer who to hook. Or point at someone if they can be hooked again but they're not trying to communicate with the killer.

    ... Just ignore the matches where we point at that one friend when they're on death hook just to troll them :')

  • Lynxx
    Lynxx Member Posts: 510
  • ShinobuSK
    ShinobuSK Member Posts: 5,279

    Because killers can remember hook states, survivors cant

  • Ryuhi
    Ryuhi Member Posts: 3,856
    edited May 2022

    you don't have to be in a swf for 2 or more people to have similar/same cosmetics.

  • TotemSeeker91
    TotemSeeker91 Member Posts: 2,358
  • TotemSeeker91
    TotemSeeker91 Member Posts: 2,358
  • TeabaggingGhostface
    TeabaggingGhostface Member Posts: 3,108

    I sometimes bring a mori if i cba to track hook states

  • TotemSeeker91
    TotemSeeker91 Member Posts: 2,358

    Would you know about my hangman's trick and lightborn I was running, no, didn't think so, lol

  • TeabaggingGhostface
    TeabaggingGhostface Member Posts: 3,108

    I remember when i was in soloq and the other 3 solos (i loaded in lobby first with a good space of time between the next survivors) were wearing the exact same cosmetic setup minus charms, it was a weird match

  • Nos37
    Nos37 Member Posts: 4,142
    edited May 2022

    Nothing changes.

    Remove 1 survivor? That means the killer's hooking no one else. That means they can see their hook count at 2 and know that both of those are for that 1 survivor.

    Even if all 4 survivors look alike and all 4 are injured, when the killer downs the wrong clone, they can see the player protrait and know they got the wrong one.

    ----

    Showing hook counts helps determined killers tunnel slightly better (if they're alternating 2 survivors and not focusing on just 1).

    Meanwhile, it helps nice killers tremendously as they'll know who not to hook (without needing to bring a mori just to see the prompt to know).

    If you're against this change, you're effectively asking to be accidentally killed by nice killers; tunneling will not stop regardless of this change.

  • Ryuhi
    Ryuhi Member Posts: 3,856

    I think people who never play killer just honestly have zero clue how many things you need to keep track of mentally at any given time. Not even an us vs them argument, just that killers need to keep multiple mental timers/counts constantly. BT and DS timers, gen speeds, boons, totem locations, (un)broken doors, gen distances, god loops, the game just gives you zero information unless you add it to your mental notebook midmatch.

  • DrDeepwound
    DrDeepwound Member Posts: 2,557
    edited May 2022

    I keep my iphone on my desk with timer app open set to a 60 sec count down....

    I know exactly when your DS is gone Ash.

  • Lynxx
    Lynxx Member Posts: 510

    It was said '4' not '2' and that weird case doesn't happen very often and if it did does the killer really care how many times they hooked a particular claudette. They wouldn't tell the difference anyway unless they were chasing the obsession or downed a claudette in which case are they suddenly going to go - 'Oh I downed the wrong claudette, guess I'll leave her alone here and try another.'

    Not likely scenario and not likely that knowing each claudette's hook count would help since you couldn't tell them apart just by looking anyway.

  • Ryuhi
    Ryuhi Member Posts: 3,856

    You implied that it was only possible with a 4 man swf, i gave an example of how it can happen even naturally and accidentally. My point was that saying survivors "need" that information as this post stated:

    My argument is that neither side needs it, and the argument for why a survivor would is no more important than why a killer would.

  • ColonGlock
    ColonGlock Member Posts: 1,224

    If knowing hook states is important to you then pay attention to the status indicator when hooking. Although some killers would use the information to spread the pain, most would use the information to prioritize who to chase and hook out the game.

  • Lynxx
    Lynxx Member Posts: 510

    Killer have a total hook count already they can use to help keep track.

    I still don't see why killer would need to see specific counts of hooks per survivor - which is what the op was about.