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Why are hook stages hidden from the killer ?
I haven't been playing DBD as long as some others here, but since owning the game and playing Killer (a few months), I wonder something.
I'm wondering why as a killer I can't see the survivor's hook stages.
As a survivor, I can see how many times my team has been hooked, but not as a killer.
Can you please enlighten me. What are the reasons for that ?
The only reason I can think of is that seeing the hook stages might encourage the killer to tunnel.
But that's what killers do anyway.
I find it really frustrating sometimes when, for example, I have the goal of hooking every survivor twice and don't want to kill anyone beforehand, but then get confused and accidentally kill someone just because so much is happening in the match and I've therefore forgotten which survivor already was on the hook and how many times they were on the hook.
Or if, in rare cases, you play a farming match with survivorn to relax a bit in between, and then at some point I am afraid to hook someone because I could accidentally kill the person.
I would really like to know why only one site is allowed to see the hook stages and what other killers think about it.
Would you like to see it or not ?
Comments
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"I'm wondering why as a killer I can't see the survivor's hook stages"
-I most of the time dont defend the survivor side lately but .....sadly salty people exist...what means they will tunnel hard if they know what survivors is already on second stage, i think thats the reason.
"Or if, in rare cases, you play a farming match with survivorn to relax a bit in between, and then at some point I am afraid to hook someone because I could accidentally kill the person."
-I know that feeling XD especially when there is 2 or more people wearing the same skin.
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What they say: because killer will know he hooked Bill twice.
What killers think: We already know we hooked Bill twice.
With the amount of complains about tunneling, you think killers dont know who they hooked? LOL
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You say so you don't accidentally kill the person while many would use it to 'accidentally' tunnel the one on death hook.
Really though as a killer you should easily be able to recall how many times you hooked someone. There's only four survivors.
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I mean, most of them go out of their way to remove 1 survivor from the game with 5 gens left, and they don't show hooks.
Now imagine if it did show hooks.
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It‘s an anti-tunneling measure and quite frankly it’s good that it doesn’t show it.
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Really though as a killer you should easily be able to recall how many times you hooked someone. There's only four survivors.
Could the same argument not be made for survivors? I mean, killers arguably have more to keep track of than survivors. So why do survivors need it so badly?
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Only when the team uses all the same cosmetics, but if your team all looks exactly the same, you've surrendered any right to complain about tunneling. I've tunneled people straight out of the game without any intent before.
On the other hand that is nice, I feel no obligation to differentiate, so it's see surv, down surv, hook surv. Nice and simple.
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From a game health perspective, there is no downside to the survivors having the more detailed information readily available to them. I also think it’s easier for the killer to remember despite them having to micromanage more things, because they are the ones actually doing the chasing and hooking.
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I think part of the issue was that if someone got saved last second before struggle you wouldn't know if they went second stage or not.
And yeah @Lynxx, it is pretty easy to forget what hook state survivors are on while playing killer if you are playing rather chill. I have several games where I have been surprised someone was on death hook without knowing each night I play.
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The real question is, why are killer perks still hidden until the end of a match?
I know why they did it don't get me wrong. However if I'm playing solo I'd like to see what I was up against when I get tunneled out of a game in less then 2 minutes and not have to wait till the end.
Also as a survivor I can call about 3 of the 4 perks in game anyway so I don't think it's really a big deal to keep them hidden anymore.
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There is no way to change that without being able to take advantage of it. And you cannot always identify perks during the match depending on what the killer is using.
Even if you’re playing solo for example let’s say one of your teammates is a TTV streamer, what’s to stop you from going to their channel after you die and saying “the killer has noed and a full endgame build”?
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If they cant see hook stages, it stops them from tunneling..
..Thats why tunneling is so rare in this game
🤡
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It's to prevent giving your teammates an advantage.
Even if you're not playing survive with friends, you could still, for example, message your teammate on steam mid-match and say "oh btw watch out for NOED lmao" and it would show up in the corner of their screen without them even having to tab out. If solos could see killer perks before the game has ended for everyone, then people would go on comms with their friends and try to wind up in the same solo lobby rather than choosing to swf.
If you give people an opportunity to get an unfair advantage, no matter how awkward and unintuitive it may be, they'll take it.
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That's the thing. Anyone trying to tunnel will know who they hooked. They're tunnelling, tunnel vision kinda comes with the territory.
But if you're just trying to have a normal game and try not to tunnel, it's a lot harder to keep track of the hook progress of 4 survivors simultaneously.
So hiding hook states actually promotes tunnelling, accidental tunnelling.
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I don't play like that but if you're going to use the streamer argument, what about the killers who stream snipe and swear they're not. How fair is that?
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I'm sorry, but if someone puts "TTV" in their name, they're making it easier for people to stream snipe them. I don't know how much of an advantage being able to see a single survivor's screen with a 30 second delay or something actually is, but, c'mon. If you want your teammates to know you're streaming, just say "I'm streaming lol" in the pregame chat.
There's also people who will put TTV in their name and then accuse anyone who wins against them of stream sniping. They're probably not even streaming half the time. Thankfully I haven't encountered this myself but I hear it's common and has been for a long time.
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Stream sniping is equally stupid.
It doesn’t matter whether you’d take advantage of seeing the killer’s perks like that or not, if the possibility is there, someone will do it.
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Absolutely. "I was stream sniped!" is a pre-loaded excuse for a lot of streamers. I've seen many times where a surv stream was certain they were sniped and absolutely indignant about it, but never for a second considered the killer's powers, perks, blood trails, etc.
Frankly, a lot of the time the stream sniping excuse is a cover for the fact that there's a lot they don't know about the game, and of course some of those times they legit don't know why they were found/hit, even when there is a clear explanation.
And of course a lot of that just ties into the natural tendency to want to deflect responsibility, which we all suffer from.
But right or wrong, if you put the .ttv in your name, baggage is gonna come with it, and streamers have to make their peace with that.
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Its a way to discourage tunnelling. They are hopping by not seeing who has been hooked, you will lose track and increase your chance of chasing somebody who hasn't been hooked. It may not be that effective, but it is an attempt. The question is why do you need to see survivors hook counters?
If you say (well I want to chase everyone evenly and I may lose track). If you have made a sincere attempt, but have lost track and by chance gone after the same person, then that's fine. Nobody can fault you for that, and if they do, you did nothing wrong. You said you need it for challenges. It is called a (challenge). It is called a challenge, it may take a couple of games and that's ok, not all of them should be done on your first attempt.
The fact is there is no valid reason for killers too need to see survivors hook counter.
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They've stated it's to prevent tunneling, which makes no sense because tunneling means you're going to target one person regardless so you're not going to have multiple people hooked to pick and choose. It's not like it's that hard to remember who is what hook state so at the end of the day it's not there for the killers because of reasons that make no sense. The idea that it would make it easier is ridiculous but that's probably because I'm capable of simple awareness and math.
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Yeah. Sometimes I just don't feel like killing the survivors, but I accidentally do. Would be great to be able to see them.
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They say it's not shown to prevent the killer from tunneling, but what they really mean is they want to prevent the killer from seeing who's been hooked twice even if they aren't even tunneling. Why? Because they don't want you to realize you can kill them right away in endgame because you had hooked them twice earlier during the match already. If the killer really wants to tunnel then they are going to remember who they are tunneling. The killer is NOT tunneling just because the game reminds them that they had hooked someone else twice earlier during the match.
There really is no reason to hide it. I even sometimes have the same problem as you and accidentally kill someone too early because I'm just on autopilot for the match.
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its an arbitrary decision where the "damned if you do" (survivors could be tunnelled) outweighs the "damned if you don't" (yet another thing to have to keep track of mentally, while also ironically making it harder to not accidentally tunnel people)
just another classic "we don't want to change it because someone could use it to be mean," unlike seizure inducing flashlight macros obviously.
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Survivors don't often witness each other being hooked so there's little visual to differentiate them leaving their screams which again, inexperienced survivors won't know the difference between them beyond male vs. female.
And since they are considered on the same 'team' that information is therefore provided to their 'team'.
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Tbh most of the times I don't remember who I hooked, I barely ever pay attention to the characters unless they have some cosmetics that make them stand out
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I guess I've never had that problem as killer, especially if I'm concerned about accidentally killing someone.
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and if you're going against 4 claudettes with the exact same cosmetics, what do killers get to be able to tell them apart?
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prevents comms from spoiling the noed
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People say it is to prevent tunnelling, but that is garbage.
Tunnelling is based on opportunity, not checking for hook states. Tunnelling is "That Meg I already hooked just ran right in front of me" or "I now that David doesn't have BT, so he just farmed that Jane."
Letting Killers see the hook states would actually let people that WANT to spread hook states around do so. It is much easier for a tunneller to track ONE Survivor they are already focusing on in their heads than a more fair played killer to track FOUR.
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the hooks are bugged, even for the survivors atm
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Honestly it doesn't matter if they show the hook count. I tend to keep track of who on death hook.
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I keep track of who I've hooked but I do feel killer should see it because it wont change much.
it making farming easier I wont kill someone I didn't want to.
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Because Survivors need Hand Holding and while Killers get a hand, but it tends to be the backside of it.
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If you got tunneled out of the game in 2 minutes then it doesn't matter what perks you were going up against because you never really went up against it :)
Killer perks need to be hidden, if you really want to know what they had then you gotta wait until the end. The only way to change this would be for the game to save our match history and allow us to go back and see it after the match is fully over
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Question to the killers here who say they want to see hook stages to prevent accidentally killing survivors during farming matches:
Do survivors, once they know it's a farming match, ever help you out by gesturing?
Me and my friends usually take turns walking up to the hook and point at it to show the killer who to hook. Or point at someone if they can be hooked again but they're not trying to communicate with the killer.
... Just ignore the matches where we point at that one friend when they're on death hook just to troll them :')
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That's an swf problem - not a HUD issue.
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Because killers can remember hook states, survivors cant
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you don't have to be in a swf for 2 or more people to have similar/same cosmetics.
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"BeCaUsE iT wOuLd EnCoUrAge TuNnElInG" said the devs maybe, lol
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It doesn't help...killers know who they hook
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I sometimes bring a mori if i cba to track hook states
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Would you know about my hangman's trick and lightborn I was running, no, didn't think so, lol
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I remember when i was in soloq and the other 3 solos (i loaded in lobby first with a good space of time between the next survivors) were wearing the exact same cosmetic setup minus charms, it was a weird match
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Nothing changes.
Remove 1 survivor? That means the killer's hooking no one else. That means they can see their hook count at 2 and know that both of those are for that 1 survivor.
Even if all 4 survivors look alike and all 4 are injured, when the killer downs the wrong clone, they can see the player protrait and know they got the wrong one.
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Showing hook counts helps determined killers tunnel slightly better (if they're alternating 2 survivors and not focusing on just 1).
Meanwhile, it helps nice killers tremendously as they'll know who not to hook (without needing to bring a mori just to see the prompt to know).
If you're against this change, you're effectively asking to be accidentally killed by nice killers; tunneling will not stop regardless of this change.
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I think people who never play killer just honestly have zero clue how many things you need to keep track of mentally at any given time. Not even an us vs them argument, just that killers need to keep multiple mental timers/counts constantly. BT and DS timers, gen speeds, boons, totem locations, (un)broken doors, gen distances, god loops, the game just gives you zero information unless you add it to your mental notebook midmatch.
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I keep my iphone on my desk with timer app open set to a 60 sec count down....
I know exactly when your DS is gone Ash.
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It was said '4' not '2' and that weird case doesn't happen very often and if it did does the killer really care how many times they hooked a particular claudette. They wouldn't tell the difference anyway unless they were chasing the obsession or downed a claudette in which case are they suddenly going to go - 'Oh I downed the wrong claudette, guess I'll leave her alone here and try another.'
Not likely scenario and not likely that knowing each claudette's hook count would help since you couldn't tell them apart just by looking anyway.
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You implied that it was only possible with a 4 man swf, i gave an example of how it can happen even naturally and accidentally. My point was that saying survivors "need" that information as this post stated:
My argument is that neither side needs it, and the argument for why a survivor would is no more important than why a killer would.
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If knowing hook states is important to you then pay attention to the status indicator when hooking. Although some killers would use the information to spread the pain, most would use the information to prioritize who to chase and hook out the game.
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Killer have a total hook count already they can use to help keep track.
I still don't see why killer would need to see specific counts of hooks per survivor - which is what the op was about.
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