Dead Hard
Comments
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Strange, but when I play as Killer I need to wait up to 1 min, when I play as Surv up to 10 min...
Also few times all 4 Survs have DH, it's because to good and lamost have no counter play when surv use it near opened gate and run away...
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Well same as gen slowdown perks.
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No offense but do you not play killer? A DH used for distance can’t be countered by most killers, and it can extend chases for a very long time. I mean, there’s a reason a majority of survivors at higher MMR run it.
The problem isn’t really “dodging a hit”, it’s “dodging a hit, and using that distance to make it to a new strong tile, and run that, then go to the next tile, etc”.
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How I bait it out when a survivor use it for gaining distance for reaching a window or reaching a pallet? It's the most common use of Dead Hard the decent survivors use Dead Hard for that purpose 90% of the times.
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Gen slowdown perks are a requirement. There will not be any map pressure if they are not used and games will finish in within 6 mins.
Say a killer found someone and chases them for 50 seconds. The rest of the survivors will be repairing generators and if there is no slow down perks, you bet 2 generators or more will pop while the killer is chasing.
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I know but you said dh is used for a reason.
Normally people that say something along that line mean to say that playing survivor without it is impossible and that it should be made a built-in mechanic.
And then when someone makes the same argument with gen slowdown on killer side, it suddenly "isn't the same" and no killer gen slow down should ever be made basekit.
I just took your first statement for something like that and answered it with whataboutism.
So, sorry if I misunderstood you. Writing is prone to misunderstandings without the intonations of spoken language.
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Well.. I would rather type in Japanese anyway :/ nevertheless, this game is survivor sided. There's a reason why there is 1 killer out of 14+ survivors on the queue. I can't post the statistic here since it will break the rules as it's a leak (For some reason)
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I play nurse and blight so DH for distance doesn't affect those killers/me as much IMO. I don't play many M1 killers so I don't know what its like. Probably is my ignorance to most of the killer roster, but I don't think DH is as bad as people make it out to be. Maybe just play nurse💪💪
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Its common use is because most people think its the best even when they don't know how to use it and automatically think bringing it is going to be better than anything else. This is not the case. Most people would be better off bringing Overcome and just holding W.
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Honestly amused at the amount of WoO I've been seeing paired with Dead Hard these days after people tried to tell me it was a bad/non-meta perk.
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Simple rework, remove the invulnerability. Make it so it its used to gain a set amount of distance instantly, as oppose to evading a hit. The only problem with dead hard is that it is used to auto correct a hit. By taking that away but making it o that it can still be used to gain a set amount of distance instantly it will still be strong, but at least a survivor won't be able to just correct a mistake instantly with E.
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And another person that thinks that the baitable hit-dodge is the part that people don't like instead of the interaction-less unbaitable/-counterable dead hard for distance outside of the killers range. 😫🤦
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If your problem with dead hard is that survivors use it for distance.. then your just complaining because somebody is better then you. Should a perk exist that allows a survivor to autocorrect a mistake? No, I think that's too much. Should a perk exist too gain some distance in some chase... I mean yeah. That's fine. There are plenty of perks/combos that don't allow for counteprlay. Corupt intervention, tinker (ect) Why is dead hard any different?
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An on demand spurt of distance allowing for the chase to continue further for 20 meters?
No other perk is as "on demand" without any real downside like dead hard.
Dodging a hit doesn't do much. The distance gained by the killers hit CD often isn't even enough to make it to another pallet. Also at that point survivor are forced to use or go down. For distance there are not even in danger, they just can be greedy and make another loop before going for the next.
And again every other exhaustion perk has some form of restriction/condition to play around. Being injured isn't like that. Before healing meta came back good survivor preferred to play injured and save the healing time.
Edit: also "better than you" for pressing a button running straight to the next loop and gaining 3eter distance on command 😂😂😂 such skill. Tell me that when they mind game me (not hard) or juke me but not with dead hard in a straight line for it's distance.
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Then they'd just be better off taking Overcome.
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Probably, but that is what happens with any meta nerf. Any nerf to dead hard, and overcome will take it, it's very strong.
No other perk apparently.
Overcome, coruped intervention, Iron will, Brutal strength. Nope no other on demand perks.
"Dodging a hit doesn't do much"
What? Are you for real? You mock me in your eddit and you have no idea how to use the perk? The one and only issue with dead hard is that a player can auto correct a mistake by dead Harding through a hit. You use it to evade the hit and then vault back over whatever the killer cut you off at. But you are telling me you use it outside the killer's attack range when looping? Because you can't loop properly? Maybe you meant use it too chain 2 lopps that cannot be chained but that applies to every exhaustion perk. You clearly lack the fundamentals of this game and I suggest practising before making game altering forum posts.
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It's very evident that some people on the forum are playing a very different game/having very different matches.
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Exactly! 👆️ I've never seen a successful Dead Hard Survivor when I play as Killer. The perk only buys them a half-step lead and 1 second of life. It doesn't prolong the chase and even if they reach a pallet or window, you just play normal chase until you down and hook. The exhaustion effect and cool down combined with the fact that you can't recharge while sprinting makes the perk mediocre at best. I've used DH as Survivor but never saw the benefit - I much prefer Balanced Landing.
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Great examples of on demand... Not.
Overcome, Iron grapes/will, brutal strength and corrupt intervention aren't on demand but passive skills. You have no influence of when to use them or rather no option using them out of context. Dead hard? Over a trap, though a killer between loops, dodge a hit, all of that whenever you want at the tip of a button.
Sprint burst is the only perk close to dead hard in that regard but you have to either not run everywhere or manage your exhaustion.
No, i talk to you from the other side. Dodge my hit? Yeah without a pallet or a vault RIGHT THERE i get you in a few seconds and you go down anyway. (That vault you talk about wasn't point of any argumentation until now but good job changing to a specific scenario) But a dead hard to go another round of the loop and being too greedy or trying to chain loops and that also cutting it close, dead hard and you are fine and the killer can't do anything.
And again, no other exhaustion perk can be used as easy as dead hard, either you have to meticulously plan your route for a vault/drop or manage your SB and overcome is not your call to use but inevitable after the hit.
Ehm, remind me again where i mock you anywhere in my post? I don't remember which parts i edited.
And I don't have to improve my fundamentals, i already quit the game in December/January and am mostly here for entertainment on my break at work after the lol forum had been shut down to years ago.
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You mean me or the other person?
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The statement is valid, either way, as you're both having very different experiences.
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So you play two killers who are two of the strongest if not the two strongest killers in the game and both who basically ignore some mechanics in the game. Why are you even commenting here then? No offense but your opinion couldn’t be any less relevant.
I play on Xbox because BHVR doesn’t want to do cross progression to PC. Blight is doodoo on a controller and Nurse isn’t much better. I play killers like Clown, Nemesis, Trapper, Plague. These killers get wrecked by survivor extending chases with DH distance. Not to mention when they get outplayed and can just press a button to erase their mistake. The closest thing a killer has to that is NOED and survivors complain all the time about it.
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If that's the case, you're delusional or just a baby survivor
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This is called a loop, a standard loop has what is known as a short side and a long side, with a pallet inbetween. Now most loops can actually be mindgamed by the killer. A mindgame is when you move back and forth in an attempt to out position the survivor to either, A force the pallet drop or B hit the survivor. This is how you play DBD.
In DBD you have what are known as exhaustion perks. exhaustion perks artificially extends the chase, when outside the killer's attack range. The standard exhaustion perk moves at 150% for 3 seconds, however there are exceptions. Every single perk has set criteria on when and how it can be used, but they all have one thing income. Its used outside the killer's attack range. This is considered fair and balanced, due to the very fast downing potential of killers There is however one difference (dead hard).
Dead Hard's one and only difference is that it can be used to autocorrect a mistake. When looping the killer, at the above the image, its important to understand that as a survivor is capable of gauging the range of a killer's lunge. When using dead hard, a survivor's burst of speed doesn't matter much. What does matter, is that the killer is incapable of hitting the survivor with his lunge attack. Despite knowing this, the killer is forced to go for the lunge attack anyway, because he needs to fore the survivor to use his dead hard. Once the killer has missed his attack, the killer's momentum is slowed down massively. To the point, that the survivor is can get an entire loop around the pallet before dropping it, because missing an attack on most loops will allow for this. If you are using dead hard for distance, then you only have a very basic understanding of the the perk. Your exact words were "Dodging a hit doesn't do much. The distance gained by the killers hit CD often isn't even enough to make it to another pallet." This is why I said you have no idea how to use the perk. A missed attack should allow for a survivor to get a full loop around the pallet. As in they continue the current loop, before dropping the pallet on the next loop. This is why Dead hard is called the 3 hit perk. If you are dead Harding to a pallet, the killer keeps his momentum, you are still forced to drop the pallet. This is fine, and balanced. If you take issue with that, then I don't know what to say other then just.. get better. The bar can only be lowered so much.
Now lets say we removed the invulnerability. Even if used, it is impossible to get the hit, the killer has two options. 1. continuing through, this will force the pallet drop, 2. The killer doubles back in hopes that the survivor is out positioned and can get a hit in. Either way the killer is not punished. The pallet is dropped and the killer can begin mindingaming the pallet while keeping momentum. Using the perk out in the open will offer little value for the same reason, making it necessary to use the perk at loops, and not out in the open.
Also I just read that you quit DBD and yet still post on the DBD forums... I have no words.
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Even when I do play M1 killers (Wraith, Pig, Clown), I hardly have trouble dealing with those who use dead hard like that. Also if you are adept in using Nemesis and Plague's powers, DH shouldn't "wreck" you. Skull 💀 issue
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I think I've mistimed more dead hard uses than not in the times I have used it. Many of the times I did avoid a hit using it I ended up getting stuck in a corner or going right into a wall then going down very shortly after anyway. When it does work it works well, and I think that is the intent of the perk. It doesn't really guarantee anything but offers a chance to avoid a hit if used properly.
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It's honestly so easy to bait out a dead hard.
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Pretty good example that a post can contain many words without being factual.
" If you are using dead hard for distance, then you only have a very basic understanding of the the perk."
Beautiful, lol
Edit - I'd also like to note that I'm not here to argue with you...You'll probably be proven wrong if the devs announce a DH change for the anniversary stream (they probably will for hype purposes), as they'll highlight their exact reasoning there.
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And this is a perfect example of criticising a post.. without actually saying anything. Just you're wrong and bad.
The post explains in great detail that a proper use of dead hard, forces a missed attack. The reason, is that if you use dead hard for distance, the killer keeps his momentum, so the value of the perk is far less. Now you can use dead hard for distance, but that's only because you can use it, while in the killer's lunge range, so the killer can't touch you. If you use it outside the killer's range, he will keep his momentum, and will beat you around the tile at most loops.
This isn't every complicated.
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See you on the 17th, friendo.
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LMAO you did a second time, XD
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I was thinking of a "winded" status affect that's a bit different from exhaustion.
You become winded after using DH and you can't drop pallets or vault windows for 5 seconds. You can still dodge important attacks from Legion, Oni, Nurse, and Spirit, or make it past a killer for any reason, but you cant just press E and make it to the god window/vault for free.
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uh oh..
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I love this idea so much, however - I think broken until downed is a bit strong.
Broken for 40-60 seconds and having the perk REQUIRE to be restored to full health to be able to be used again is much more sensible.
It prevents spam and encourages teammates to heal one another - which takes time.
It's a hard tradeoff at that point. The survivor is gambling a hook state/losing chase to a potential ~16-32 second heal.
While the first use is inheritably 'free', the killer can see that the user is broken and think "Okay, I got my value out of this chase" and leave, knowing the perk cannot be activated again for several seconds and, beyond that, requires teamwork and perks to be reactivated again.
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dead hard should be COMPLETELY reworked. period. i've already discussed this topic multiple times and i'm tired to repeat the same things every cursed time (for whoever is interested i did a thread in the past that it's still visible despite it was locked. here's the link https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/260885/dead-hard-must-be-reworked/p1)
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The other exhaustion perks are considered balanced only because no one use them. You’ll see hordes of killers complaining about sb when dh will be nerfed to the ground
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i don't think so... you see, to use sprint burst optimally you need some works to use it (putting your exhaustation at 99%) and it won't work as command like dead hard do... as killer SB is annoying but doable, but it's nowhere near the level of dead hard in terms of usefulness (for the survivors) and annoyance (for the killers)
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Okay wall of text.
First if all, yeah okay i retract my statement that dead hard to dodge is general useless and say it's useless when the average casual survivor uses it without a pallet/vault in the immediate vicinity.
Second, good job not addressing anything i said with the exception of your one quote and the fact that i am still on this forum even after i quit the game. Am i really the first one of those that you find on this forum, you must come here quite recently.
Third, good job still disregarding the fact that, while dh to dodge can be baited and is therefore an interaction between killer and survivor, dh for distance is not and unlike any other exhaustion perk that, yes, do a better job distancewise, have prerequisites and can be messed up. The only way to mess up a dh for distance is to hard mess up with the distance to the next loop or dh into a wall. The strength to downside ratio for dh in comparison to all other exhaustion perks is ridiculous
Either way the killer is not punished. The pallet is dropped and the killer can begin mindingaming the pallet while keeping momentum.
Having to play around another window/pallet and losing another 10-20+ seconds is not punishing when all 4 survivor can do that nearly every chase? I guess you have never played a fast 5 minute game against coordinated survivor.
Fourth, damn what a condescending piece you are with that first paragraph talking to me like i am a kid and trying to insult my intelligence.
And with this i am going to cease any further interaction with you as you don't engage with what i say.
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I wonder if Dead Hard has been put into the shrine of secrets just out of spite.
I find it hard to believe the perk is being “looked at”.
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Just delete the ######### perk.
It was one of the more poorly design perks of the game and it shows because they've done nothing about it for years since its release and its still a topic of really unfun game design.
Then again, unfun game design is really par for the course here. Since Tunneling, Camping, and Survivor Spawns are still considered acceptable things.
In no way, shape, or form, should Dead Hard exist. All it does, is punish the killer for making a play that would end a Survivor, and reward the Survivor for pressing E.
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I'm talking about survivors that take it because they think they are supposed to, but will never use it correctly. Survivors where taking it gives them no tangible benefit whatsoever.
So, Yes.
They would be better off taking Overcome because it activates automatically and can get you a large amount of distance on the killer.
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Pretty sure they'll be invalidated/proven wrong on the 17th.
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If a perk that just give you a 1 second boost is a nightmare for killers, then that is killers lacking skills, the perk is still fine. Is not even that good of a perk, half the times it doesn't even work properly
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I can't believe killers cry so much about this perk when they have the most powerful perk in the game. Is just ridiculous. I guess is just noob killers that cry about it couse experience killers have no problem with it
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Have you literally not seen an E key for distance? Cause you sound very ignorant/not informed to the issue of dh to where DH FOR DISTANCE IS NEVER IN THE CONTROL OF THE KILLER. There is nothing you can against it and has been proven by otz in his onyro video. Guess the guy that has been playing since day 1 and can play every killer to a degree of skill just "isn't good enough".
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There is nothing survivors can do againts a lot of the killers perks either, so not even a valid point. Make sure your arguments make sense at least
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Why is all this survivors crying that dead hard is balanced when every killer predicted that every survivor will have deadhard and instead of hitting them, they wait for 2 seconds or more while touching them?
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Name them.
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Haha you are hilarious, anything else your highness?
You don't know the killer perks?
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Its a 4v1.... the person playing the role where you have to take on an entire team SHOULD be powerful to at least contend with the other 4 people that can bring 16 perks for that team. But DH (or exhaustion overall) is just too powerful. But I guess thats where ignorance gets you.
Either way having SOO much power in the 1v1 with only perks is kind of a stupid design.
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