Hiding the killers loadout has got to go... hear me out
For newer players, this is bad. Since newer players tend to die faster, how are they supposed to improve and learn the game and perks and add ons they lost to if they are hidden from them?
I honestly don’t think having swf groups being able to tell the others about the loadout was such a big deal that they had to make this change. This is frankly just annoying and unfair to newer players.
Please comment your thoughts and opinions below!
(and before you say it, yes I play killer about 75% of the time when I play alone. I never found this to be an issue for me)
Comments
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this. has. to. stay.
periodif you as a solo player are interested in the killers loadout, just spectate the round and wait till its over.
if you are not, just leave and go for the next game.
the same goes for newer players, they even improve while being able to see other survivors play against the killer they just lost against. and if they win, they now know how the others did it.and yes, SWF being able to tell each other eas a big deal. not only did it put solo players in a disadvantage, as they couldnt know what the killer had, but that also completely killed perks like Hex: No One Escapes Death. SWF groups who know there is gonna be a NOED ncoming will just cleanse all the totems, rendering the perk useless. SWF groups who know there is Barbecue and Chili will simply enter a locker, hide behind a gen or go near the hook to get rid of the effects. same for Nurses Calling, Knock Out, basically every single killer perk that influences the gameplay. if that is not a big deal, i dont know what is.
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Just wait the 3 min or so for the game to finish. (this number does not protein to every game)
And if you die early, I don't think knowing the killers load out would have changed this.
Plus, a lot of perks are shown to you already or have very obvious signs that killer has that perk. (same goes for notable killer add-ons)
If you can't recognize the signs that a killer has a particular perk, that's on you...(unless of course this was the intent of the perk)2 -
Well I personally play assuming the killer has BBQ and NOED and do all those things anyway. Be an all around survivor by doing gens, cleanse your totems, etc. A lot of perks can be figured out by seeing how the match goes. Does the killer go right for someone far after hooking? Yes? BBQ. Can’t see someone on the ground? Knock out. I would like to see the loadout quickly and then move on to my next game. Not everyone plays with friends every time. It’s not fair to change something so one sided for a game like this.0
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I never cared if SWF saw my loadout, it never really bothered me. I can see how I lot of people would want this change since they could get countered easily.However, solo players shouldn't have to wait for the entire match to be over in order to see the loadout.
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Here's the problem with the request. Well one of them, the other being how it could be exploited to hell, and back.
The problem? When the lobby loads, the game doesn't know the difference between the 3 man ed edd and eddy and the 4th man.
You'd think there would be a flag, but there isn't.4 -
I wish there was a way to implement that the solo players can see it while people who have others in the party still in the game will have to wait... maybe when dedicated servers come they can do this?0
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@NurseVSWeepingAngels said:
I wish there was a way to implement that the solo players can see it while people who have others in the party still in the game will have to wait... maybe when dedicated servers come they can do this?They could, but they won't. Solo players can still get salty and spoil the Killer's loadout with SWF just to spite the Killer. This is one of those problems that can't be fixed because it has to do with the ######### nature of some of the players in this game.
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How can they spoil it though if they’re playing solo?Orion said:@NurseVSWeepingAngels said:
I wish there was a way to implement that the solo players can see it while people who have others in the party still in the game will have to wait... maybe when dedicated servers come they can do this?They could, but they won't. Solo players can still get salty and spoil the Killer's loadout with SWF just to spite the Killer. This is one of those problems that can't be fixed because it has to do with the ######### nature of some of the players in this game.
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3 man swf loads into lobby.NurseVSWeepingAngels said:I wish there was a way to implement that the solo players can see it while people who have others in the party still in the game will have to wait... maybe when dedicated servers come they can do this?
4th man pops up. Gets a chat invite.
4th man gets sandbagged subtly. Dies. Tells 3 man the killers perks.
4 man SWF loads in. Mid match someone on death hook leaves SWF. Sees killer's loadout. Blabs.
Until you can figure out how it can be abused, then figure out how to counter it, people negatively impacted will never really support the goal.0 -
@NurseVSWeepingAngels said:
How can they spoil it though if they’re playing solo?Friend requests, profile comments, direct messages on console...
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I mean this seems like a stretch that this happens enough to warrant this change. I don’t talk to people on chat that I don’t know personallyRebel_Raven said:
3 man swf loads into lobby.NurseVSWeepingAngels said:I wish there was a way to implement that the solo players can see it while people who have others in the party still in the game will have to wait... maybe when dedicated servers come they can do this?
4th man pops up. Gets a chat invite.
4th man gets sandbagged subtly. Dies. Tells 3 man the killers perks.
4 man SWF loads in. Mid match someone on death hook leaves SWF. Sees killer's loadout. Blabs.
Until you can figure out how it can be abused, then figure out how to counter it, people negatively impacted will never really support the goal.0 -
No, just punching holes in how solos bypassing the block can be abused.NurseVSWeepingAngels said:
I mean this seems like a stretch that this happens enough to warrant this change. I don’t talk to people on chat that I don’t know personallyRebel_Raven said:
3 man swf loads into lobby.NurseVSWeepingAngels said:I wish there was a way to implement that the solo players can see it while people who have others in the party still in the game will have to wait... maybe when dedicated servers come they can do this?
4th man pops up. Gets a chat invite.
4th man gets sandbagged subtly. Dies. Tells 3 man the killers perks.
4 man SWF loads in. Mid match someone on death hook leaves SWF. Sees killer's loadout. Blabs.
Until you can figure out how it can be abused, then figure out how to counter it, people negatively impacted will never really support the goal.
Gotta take into account how it can be abused.1 -
Yeah I see what you mean. I really have my fingers crossed that they can do something when dedicated servers come. But they should have waited to do this until it was a fix that didn’t hurt another set of people. Why “fix” something that hurt killers to now hurt solo players that truly play solo. :,(Rebel_Raven said:
No, just punching holes in how solos bypassing the block can be abused.NurseVSWeepingAngels said:
I mean this seems like a stretch that this happens enough to warrant this change. I don’t talk to people on chat that I don’t know personallyRebel_Raven said:
3 man swf loads into lobby.NurseVSWeepingAngels said:I wish there was a way to implement that the solo players can see it while people who have others in the party still in the game will have to wait... maybe when dedicated servers come they can do this?
4th man pops up. Gets a chat invite.
4th man gets sandbagged subtly. Dies. Tells 3 man the killers perks.
4 man SWF loads in. Mid match someone on death hook leaves SWF. Sees killer's loadout. Blabs.
Until you can figure out how it can be abused, then figure out how to counter it, people negatively impacted will never really support the goal.
Gotta take into account how it can be abused.0 -
Are people actually doing that? -.- That’s just as sad as actually going out of their way to message people the perks for a match that literally lasts like 10 minutes. Who even does these things. I’ve been playing this game since it came out for PS4 and I never message randos to warn them about perks let alone join a voice chat with randos for a match. I’ve never got a message from anyone too which is why I heavily question this ever being an actual problemSairek said:Considering some SWFs will literally unplug their internet so the game on their client thinks the game ends, thus revealing the killer's perks -- this change absolutely has to happen.
And that whole unplugging the internet exploit to get past this change needs to be fixed/punished, too.
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Damn that’s crazy. I guess I’ve avoided the toxic people somehow lolSairek said:@NurseVSWeepingAngels said:
Sairek said:Considering some SWFs will literally unplug their internet so the game on their client thinks the game ends, thus revealing the killer's perks -- this change absolutely has to happen.
And that whole unplugging the internet exploit to get past this change needs to be fixed/punished, too.
Are people actually doing that? -.- That’s just as sad as actually going out of their way to message people the perks for a match that literally lasts like 10 minutes. Who even does these things. I’ve been playing this game since it came out for PS4 and I never message randos to warn them about perks let alone join a voice chat with randos for a match. I’ve never got a message from anyone too which is why I heavily question this ever being an actual problem
Well, my brother's friend is a jerk enough to do it constantly, and considering I've seen even worse toxic people than him playing this game, I wouldn't put it behind them that they're doing it too.
Especially when 80% of my games when going up against a SWF tend to have at least 1 DC when they would be on death hook.
and good let them be salty and dc and lose their blood points LOL idk to me this really wasn’t that big of an issue. Does this happen every game? Very doubtful. So to make this change that now0 -
Ugh I hit post...
so to make this change that now affect every game is making it a whole different issue that imo is worse0 -
How about we also hide survivor item loadout at lobby, just to "even" things out since apparently only killers are allowed to know things.
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@NurseVSWeepingAngels said:
Sairek said:Considering some SWFs will literally unplug their internet so the game on their client thinks the game ends, thus revealing the killer's perks -- this change absolutely has to happen.
And that whole unplugging the internet exploit to get past this change needs to be fixed/punished, too.
Are people actually doing that? -.- That’s just as sad as actually going out of their way to message people the perks for a match that literally lasts like 10 minutes. Who even does these things. I’ve been playing this game since it came out for PS4 and I never message randos to warn them about perks let alone join a voice chat with randos for a match. I’ve never got a message from anyone too which is why I heavily question this ever being an actual problem
I've received party invites from other survivors while playing solo on the PS4. And as the killer I've received messages from survivors telling me where to find other survivors still alive in the match. I don't accept random invites or read messages mid-match, but it shows that this stuff does indeed happen.
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@First Dude
While i can understand your point you only miss out on some informations after the game but if you reverse it you once again lose killers games cuz they snipe your perks and know exactly what you have and rush gens etc. So the lesser evil is you having less informations vs Killers losing entire games to snipers.1 -
Here’s the thing though.. does this sniping really happen every single game? No. So to me, was it worth changing something that stops what happens once every (who knows how many games) to now affect every single survivor every single game? That makes no sense to me at all. They have now created an issue to every match vs one that happened rarely. And it’s a very one sided thing. As someone who plays killer a lot, I realize I can’t win every single match. Who cares if I get the rare swf perk snipe vs all the other 3k-4K games I get. This hurts all solo players legitimately playing solo and all new players trying to learn the game. Im sorry but this was a poor fix and should have been done when they can discern solo vs swf parties.0
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@NurseVSWeepingAngels said:
Here’s the thing though.. does this sniping really happen every single game? No. So to me, was it worth changing something that stops what happens once every (who knows how many games) to now affect every single survivor every single game? That makes no sense to me at all. They have now created an issue to every match vs one that happened rarely. And it’s a very one sided thing. As someone who plays killer a lot, I realize I can’t win every single match. Who cares if I get the rare swf perk snipe vs all the other 3k-4K games I get. This hurts all solo players legitimately playing solo and all new players trying to learn the game. Im sorry but this was a poor fix and should have been done when they can discern solo vs swf parties.Are you the first one to die every single game? No. So, by your own logic, this is fine.
In more common logic, however, the frequency of a problem doesn't make it any less impactful. You can wait until the trial ends if you really wanna know the Killer's loadout - if you haven't figured it out by then, that is...1 -
I guess you got me there. But, I also make a game out of it to learn all four perks before the match is over and I like the satisfaction of learning right after I die or survive. There have been times where I thought “the killer must have (so and so) because of (this)” and sometimes it seemed obvious and sometimes it ended that they didn’t have the perk and they were just good at guessing survivor movements and predicted what they do. If I do happen to die before the match is over, I like to see if I was correct without having to wait for the match to end AND THEN WAIT another 10 minutes for a lobby to load because lobby times are ridiculous right now (on PS4 anyway). But I’m not just speaking for myself personally. I’m speaking for the new players that shouldn’t have to wait for a whole match to be over to learn what they died to.Orion said:@NurseVSWeepingAngels said:
Here’s the thing though.. does this sniping really happen every single game? No. So to me, was it worth changing something that stops what happens once every (who knows how many games) to now affect every single survivor every single game? That makes no sense to me at all. They have now created an issue to every match vs one that happened rarely. And it’s a very one sided thing. As someone who plays killer a lot, I realize I can’t win every single match. Who cares if I get the rare swf perk snipe vs all the other 3k-4K games I get. This hurts all solo players legitimately playing solo and all new players trying to learn the game. Im sorry but this was a poor fix and should have been done when they can discern solo vs swf parties.Are you the first one to die every single day? No. So, by your own logic, this is fine.
In more common logic, however, the frequency of a problem doesn't make it any less impactful. You can wait until the trial ends if you really wanna know the Killer's loadout - if you haven't figured it out by then, that is...0 -
Also, trust me, I’m not fighting that this change should never have happened. I get that this happens and is a problem. I don’t believe the scope of it warranted hurting more people than it originally hurt before. It was something they rushed without thinking of the negatives of it. And like I’ve said and I’ll keep saying, when dedicated servers come in the summer, they need implement a flagging system that can stop this from impacting solo players. And maybe even not exist in rank 17 and under.0
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@NurseVSWeepingAngels said:
I guess you got me there. But, I also make a game out of it to learn all four perks before the match is over and I like the satisfaction of learning right after I die or survive. There have been times where I thought “the killer must have (so and so) because of (this)” and sometimes it seemed obvious and sometimes it ended that they didn’t have the perk and they were just good at guessing survivor movements and predicted what they do. If I do happen to die before the match is over, I like to see if I was correct without having to wait for the match to end AND THEN WAIT another 10 minutes for a lobby to load because lobby times are ridiculous right now (on PS4 anyway). But I’m not just speaking for myself personally. I’m speaking for the new players that shouldn’t have to wait for a whole match to be over to learn what they died to.If you want to know, you'll have to wait. It's a trade-off.
Also, you only speak for yourself. I don't see any new players complaining about this.1 -
I mean new players are less likely to be on the forums soOrion said:@NurseVSWeepingAngels said:
I guess you got me there. But, I also make a game out of it to learn all four perks before the match is over and I like the satisfaction of learning right after I die or survive. There have been times where I thought “the killer must have (so and so) because of (this)” and sometimes it seemed obvious and sometimes it ended that they didn’t have the perk and they were just good at guessing survivor movements and predicted what they do. If I do happen to die before the match is over, I like to see if I was correct without having to wait for the match to end AND THEN WAIT another 10 minutes for a lobby to load because lobby times are ridiculous right now (on PS4 anyway). But I’m not just speaking for myself personally. I’m speaking for the new players that shouldn’t have to wait for a whole match to be over to learn what they died to.If you want to know, you'll have to wait. It's a trade-off.
Also, you only speak for yourself. I don't see any new players complaining about this.0 -
@NurseVSWeepingAngels said:
I mean new players are less likely to be on the forums soSo you still only speak for yourself. Unless you're psychic or have done an extensive survey, you don't know what bothers new players.
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No I’m sharing my opinion which is clearly the same as some others as well. That’s what creating a thread for a discussion does. To share your thoughts and see others thoughts. Don’t put down my opinion simply because you don’t agree. I want a discussion about this and pointing out the flaws in it.Orion said:@NurseVSWeepingAngels said:
I mean new players are less likely to be on the forums soSo you still only speak for yourself. Unless you're psychic or have done an extensive survey, you don't know what bothers new players.
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@NurseVSWeepingAngels said:
No I’m sharing my opinion which is clearly the same as some others as well. That’s what creating a thread for a discussion does. To share your thoughts and see others thoughts. Don’t put down my opinion simply because you don’t agree. I want a discussion about this and pointing out the flaws in it.I'm not putting down your opinion, I'm saying you don't speak for other people, especially those whose opinions you've never even asked.
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Yeah but that’s why I made the thread.. to get others to comment on my thoughts and hear theirs. I wish I could reach newer players to see what they think but this is all I can do. & Like I’ve said I don’t believe this is a bad idea but it’s not a good solution right now since there is still flaws to it without a flagging system in place to discern swf/solos/newbs. Hiding the perks has no place in the starter ranks because there is a much less chance of people working that hard to ruin the killers game. (Although I can admit there are players that derank on purpose to bully new players but that’s also such a small and specific issue)Orion said:@NurseVSWeepingAngels said:
No I’m sharing my opinion which is clearly the same as some others as well. That’s what creating a thread for a discussion does. To share your thoughts and see others thoughts. Don’t put down my opinion simply because you don’t agree. I want a discussion about this and pointing out the flaws in it.I'm not putting down your opinion, I'm saying you don't speak for other people, especially those whose opinions you've never even asked.
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^^0
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@NurseVSWeepingAngels said:
I get it... it saves the killer from SWF from getting the advantage of knowing what the killer has.. however, as someone who plays solo a lot (not always but a lot), I hate that I can’t even see what I was up against to make sure I can improve as a survivor the next time. I don’t want to have to wait for the game to end. It’s bad enough I have to wait a long time in the queue.. I don’t want to waste time waiting to see what the killer had. Now that was my personal beef.For newer players, this is bad. Since newer players tend to die faster, how are they supposed to improve and learn the game and perks and add ons they lost to if they are hidden from them?
I honestly don’t think having swf groups being able to tell the others about the loadout was such a big deal that they had to make this change. This is frankly just annoying and unfair to newer players.
Please comment your thoughts and opinions below!
(and before you say it, yes I play killer about 75% of the time when I play alone. I never found this to be an issue for me)
You can see the loadout, you just have to wait alittle bit. Take a break, stand up and do some stuff, come back in a few mins and voila.
And yes, SWF will eventually ruin the game if the devs dont do anythign about it.
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Actually, a simple solution to this "issue" would be to implement some kind of "Trial Summary" you would get in the main menu as soon as game ends (should be easily done once dedicated servers are done), basically something like certain games have already, like League of Legends, World of Tanks.
When game ends, all players that participated in it, doesn't matter when they disconnected from the game, they would get a summary of how game went (just the tally screen basically).
Perks could be visible there and only there. Hell, maybe even implement a copy of the chat to said summary, just for the luls.0 -
@NurseVSWeepingAngels said:
I honestly don’t think having swf groups being able to tell the others about the loadout was such a big deal that they had to make this change. This is frankly just annoying and unfair to newer players.That depends on the killer's loadout. If you go for endgame surprises like Bloodwarden, it's a big deal. If you play BBQ, Ruin, Enduring + Spirit Fury, it doesn't matter that much.
You also can't make a difference between SWF and solo, even if it was technically possible. Solo survs would still sometimes write messages to the other survivors like "they have noed/bloodwarden".
It might be annoying to survivors, but the alternative is unfair to killers.
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@NurseVSWeepingAngels said:
I get it... it saves the killer from SWF from getting the advantage of knowing what the killer has.. however, as someone who plays solo a lot (not always but a lot), I hate that I can’t even see what I was up against to make sure I can improve as a survivor the next time. I don’t want to have to wait for the game to end. It’s bad enough I have to wait a long time in the queue.. I don’t want to waste time waiting to see what the killer had. Now that was my personal beef.For newer players, this is bad. Since newer players tend to die faster, how are they supposed to improve and learn the game and perks and add ons they lost to if they are hidden from them?
I honestly don’t think having swf groups being able to tell the others about the loadout was such a big deal that they had to make this change. This is frankly just annoying and unfair to newer players.
Please comment your thoughts and opinions below!
(and before you say it, yes I play killer about 75% of the time when I play alone. I never found this to be an issue for me)
Why is it so hard to understand that reverting this very much needed change would kill some builds, particularly endgame perks like Blood Warden?
I hardly ever play SWF as survivor, and I feel somewhat annoyed when I can't see killer's loadout too, but this is nowhere near as damaging as survivors telling each other about killer's "ace in the hole" perks.If you want fair gameplay, you have to get used to this change.
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I'm all for the hiding of the perks staying. It's not like the killer can see your perks before the end either.
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This is a qol for killers, nothing is stopping you if you really need to know. Impatience is a poor excuse to have a good feature removed.3
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I disagree. If you want to see the killer's equips, then wait until the match is over.NurseVSWeepingAngels said:I get it... it saves the killer from SWF from getting the advantage of knowing what the killer has.. however, as someone who plays solo a lot (not always but a lot), I hate that I can’t even see what I was up against to make sure I can improve as a survivor the next time. I don’t want to have to wait for the game to end. It’s bad enough I have to wait a long time in the queue.. I don’t want to waste time waiting to see what the killer had. Now that was my personal beef.
For newer players, this is bad. Since newer players tend to die faster, how are they supposed to improve and learn the game and perks and add ons they lost to if they are hidden from them?
I honestly don’t think having swf groups being able to tell the others about the loadout was such a big deal that they had to make this change. This is frankly just annoying and unfair to newer players.
Please comment your thoughts and opinions below!
(and before you say it, yes I play killer about 75% of the time when I play alone. I never found this to be an issue for me)2 -
Nope...Needs to stay as long as SWF can abuse it...
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Maybe because it definitely wouldn’t kill perks like bloodwarden. They would still have bloodwarden. It might kill NOED but that’s only if you can get lucky and find the hex totem.George_Soros said:@NurseVSWeepingAngels said:
I get it... it saves the killer from SWF from getting the advantage of knowing what the killer has.. however, as someone who plays solo a lot (not always but a lot), I hate that I can’t even see what I was up against to make sure I can improve as a survivor the next time. I don’t want to have to wait for the game to end. It’s bad enough I have to wait a long time in the queue.. I don’t want to waste time waiting to see what the killer had. Now that was my personal beef.For newer players, this is bad. Since newer players tend to die faster, how are they supposed to improve and learn the game and perks and add ons they lost to if they are hidden from them?
I honestly don’t think having swf groups being able to tell the others about the loadout was such a big deal that they had to make this change. This is frankly just annoying and unfair to newer players.
Please comment your thoughts and opinions below!
(and before you say it, yes I play killer about 75% of the time when I play alone. I never found this to be an issue for me)
Why is it so hard to understand that reverting this very much needed change would kill some builds, particularly endgame perks like Blood Warden?
I hardly ever play SWF as survivor, and I feel somewhat annoyed when I can't see killer's loadout too, but this is nowhere near as damaging as survivors telling each other about killer's "ace in the hole" perks.If you want fair gameplay, you have to get used to this change.
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Let me play you a song on the worlds smallest violin
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@CosmicCorvidae said:
George_Soros said:@NurseVSWeepingAngels said:
I get it... it saves the killer from SWF from getting the advantage of knowing what the killer has.. however, as someone who plays solo a lot (not always but a lot), I hate that I can’t even see what I was up against to make sure I can improve as a survivor the next time. I don’t want to have to wait for the game to end. It’s bad enough I have to wait a long time in the queue.. I don’t want to waste time waiting to see what the killer had. Now that was my personal beef.
For newer players, this is bad. Since newer players tend to die faster, how are they supposed to improve and learn the game and perks and add ons they lost to if they are hidden from them? I honestly don’t think having swf groups being able to tell the others about the loadout was such a big deal that they had to make this change. This is frankly just annoying and unfair to newer players. Please comment your thoughts and opinions below!
(and before you say it, yes I play killer about 75% of the time when I play alone. I never found this to be an issue for me)
Why is it so hard to understand that reverting this very much needed change would kill some builds, particularly endgame perks like Blood Warden?
I hardly ever play SWF as survivor, and I feel somewhat annoyed when I can't see killer's loadout too, but this is nowhere near as damaging as survivors telling each other about killer's "ace in the hole" perks.
If you want fair gameplay, you have to get used to this change.
Maybe because it definitely wouldn’t kill perks like bloodwarden. They would still have bloodwarden. It might kill NOED but that’s only if you can get lucky and find the hex totem.
Implying it's not a huge thing if survivors know that the gates will be blocked for X seconds if a survivor gets hooked. After the change I got so many kills due to bloodwarden it's funny.
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After playing with the changes in place for a while now, I have changed my stance. Thanks for your comments guys!0
