Does Behavior regret making survivors the power role?
A 1v4 game, anyone would think that the 1 player would be much more powerful than the 4 right? Well not in dbd, here the 4 players are the power role and are favoured by the devs in such a way that they hold the power to "bully" the killer into oblivion. Maps designs always favour them, they get second chances to fix their mistakes and their objective (doing gens) is much faster than the killer's (hooking survivors). The killer who is always out of time has to do secondary objectives (breakable walls and snuffing boons) lol. Now the killer role is so trashed and feels so stressful that very few people wanna play it, which has increased survivor queue times massively. So making survivors the power role really backfired for Behavior eventually didn't it? It was only a matter of time. They kept favouring the majority (survivors) but forgot they NEED killer players to have dbd.
Comments
-
Well yeah survivors are the money makers. Hence why we get like 3 survivor skins for every 1 killer skin. Unless its something like the CryptTV collab.
5 -
I don't think they regret making Survivors the overall power role
13 -
Considering the fact that one of the next perks is going to make gens fly by EVEN faster and that one will apply the blindness status effect to killers so that flashy squads can bully them even harder, the answer is: LOL.
26 -
The kill rate is above 50%. Perhaps it’s you
24 -
The average kill rate is above 50%, which tells us what everyone already knew, bad Survivors (the overwhelming majority) die a lot, not that Killers are OP.
We do not know what the kill rate is like at top MMR
37 -
this is hilarious. You really should play other games where the power role are the survivors or there's no power role before you speak
3 -
Yeah I don't think so. Considering you need 4 players for every 1 killer this sort of thing is inevitable. I've seen what happens when it's the other way around. Game dies in record time. On a personal level, I don't look to win so I don't tend to get stressed. Gen rush me or whatever, I don't care, I'll take what I can get.
Having said that, it is a little 'too' in favour of survivors at the moment. Bully squads are arguably increasing because doing the game normally is too boring/easy. That very concept needs to absolutely be destroyed because of it's utter ridiculousness and this does cause me annoyance. As a side note getting rid of Dead Hard's current effect for frustration reasons alone never mind the overwhelming statistics would also be an excellent start.
7 -
You mean like... Evolve?
9 -
I don't think they regret making a very successful game
24 -
In a 1v1 the killer is much more powerful.
if the 4 survivors use their number advantage and play decently they‘re supposed to win.
4 -
I miss Evolve.😞
2 -
Me too...
4 -
This is the only asymmetric horror game to survive so no I think they're vibing
9 -
Except, a large number of killers get nerfed SPECIFICALLY to make survivors better against them in 1v1. Just off the top of my head:
- Pyramid Head got a cool-down on pulling his knife up so that survivors could just juke to the side and prevent him from hitting with his power around corners
- Wraith got his reappearance dash nerfed to give survivors who aren't in hitting distance already enough time to out distance him
- Deathslinger got a cooldown added to pulling out his gun without reducing the aiming penalty baked him him, giving survivors plenty of time to juke
- Freddy slows down while placing snares now, making him unable to place them mid-loop without giving the survivor the added distance they'd lose by stepping on the snare
- Spirit got a phasing noise to remove the fake-out on her power as well as directional sounds to give a survivor ample warning where she's at in the first place.
If the game were actually being balanced around killers being very strong in 1v1, I'd agree with you. Except, all these killers and more got their powers gutted specifically to make them weaker in 1v1, while some of the most powerful 1v1 survivor perks (Dead Hard) get buffed considerably with no penalty of any sort. And then they go ahead and add 4v1 perks like CoH that make your team WAAAAY stronger by bypassing the whole "the team needs to work together" aspect of the game.
19 -
I don't think they know which is the power role honestly.
3 -
The difference is all of them except maybe Wraith were very annoying to face. Being super strong in chase doesn’t equal good game design. All 4 except wraith encouraged the worst gameplay style. Pyramid head and slinger were both zoning killers they didn’t even need to use there power. Spirit and Freddy were extremely easy to use in chase. Freddy just spam traps. Spirit just stand still and mindgame.
pyramid head is still good in chase
slinger you can still zone just as good, you just can’t quick scope that much.
wraith, 1v1 wasn’t really that strong only one I agree with but he was kind of braindead to play.
Freddy can still spam traps and loops, still annoying to face
spirit can’t rely on cheap tricks anymore, but can still mindgame.
you treat them like there gutted but there not there still the same killer(except wraith).
5 -
They weren‘t gutted at all you drama queen. A lot of the things got adjusted because it was almost impossible for the survivors to play a chase against them.
Being strong in a 1v1 does not mean the „weaker“ role should Auto lose. Player skill should still matter somewhat. And most of these killers are still quite strong.
7 -
Something being annoying doesn't mean it needs to be changed/nerfed.
Wraith, Deathslinger and Nightmare were fine balance wise, they were pub-stompers, but got nerfed because Survivors whined too much,not because they were too strong
11 -
Survivors are not the power role. Killers are. The fact that 4 survivors can coordinate enough to escape the killer does not make them the power role.
8 -
Killers are not the power role. Survivors are. The fact that Blight and Nurse can be strong enough to sacrifice 4man SWFs does not make them the power role.
11 -
I highly doubt it.
In fact, I believe the Survivors being the power role is a very active decision they made a long time ago.
For an in depth analysis on this topic, see the linked post above.
0 -
No, survivors have strength in numbers and if they utilize it to their advantage they have a good chance at winning.
1 survivor alone can‘t defeat a killer and escape a trial. The killer is far more powerful.
That‘s how it should be. Things need finetuning for sure but survivors are not the power role.
3 -
There are more than 2 killers that can compete
1 -
They weren’t just to strong they were cheap and annoying. Slinger had no downsides to his gun besides the 1v4.
Huntress and trickster both have long windup times and give warning when there going to shoot. Slinger had none he could aim the gun faster then you could run, he had no slowdown, no cooldown he could keep ads with no punishment. Huntress when she stops aiming has a hefty slowdown, slinger doesn’t, she gives a sound cue when aiming slinger doesn’t, she has a lullaby letting you know when to run he doesn’t he could literally snipe you from outside his TR he was a better stealth killer than the actual stealth killers. There’s a reason he got these nerfs. I agree he should have gotten more buffs to compensate, but calling this balanced is just plain wrong.
freddy was not fine, he was also cheap to play as and against, it was literally spam traps at loops, rinse and repeat. His nerf was deserved he was the pure definition of low risk high reward.
once again, I literally said I agree with what everyone says about wraith. His nerf was undeserved. But I could see why his whole gameplay was just uncloaking at loops I could see why it was considered braindead, but survivors actually didn’t want him to be nerfed, but he was nerfed anyway cause he was considered “Unfun”.
1 -
... you're not supposed to win a 1v1 against the Killer as a Survivor, that's you found them annoying
5 -
This right here. "Play a chase against them."
You understand that if the survivors have a good footing in chases, that means that the killer ISN'T stronger than the survivor in 1v1, right? Like, that's the WHOLE point of this. If you want survivors to always be strong in 4v1 but the killer to be stronger in 1v1, you are saying that killers have to be strong in 1v1. So when you say "oh but actually survivors ought to be able to outplay killers in chases/loops," you're saying "survivors and killers should be equal in 1v1."
This is how the Devs think too, and it's why the killer play experience is so horrible once you leave the lowest tiers of the game. You can't have survivors be super strong in 4v1 and ALSO have any kind of a chance in 1v1. It doesn't work.
9 -
survivors might not win every chase against them but they should atleast have some form of counterplay besides doing gens. There was literally nothing to do. Before slingers nerf his ads was .15 seconds. It was humanly impossible to dodge his spear in real time it’s completely impossible. PH when he planted his knife at windows you had 2 situations get hit through window or fake it and he hits you with M1 there was no way to counter that.
Survivors should have some counterplay to some chases and not completely lose the game. Nurse and blight are extremely strong killers but there counterplay is so fun and engaging that it balances out they have ways to deal with them. Like dodging the blinks or rushs or timing pallet stuns.
2 -
No, you don’t understand. A lot of killers have decent tools to win chases now. Not every single one of them but many and especially the newer ones.
If a survivor is better than the killer they should have a chance at the 1v1 part. Playing the so-called „power role“ should not be an autowin in chases.
if the killer is too bad they should lose. The problem is less the 1v1 but the 1v4 in that the survivors can potentially end the game way too fast.
1 -
The other part of that detail of course is that mediocre killer players kill mediocre survivors much more then good killers kill good survivors. Then on top of that you've got SWF balance vs. solo survivor balance. Honestly it's a very hard problem to solve.
Mostly I would merely deal with the frustration side of it (bullying, dead hard etc.) and just have the balance largely remain as is, at least as far as the higher then average killers are concerned, the lower end of the killers do need love. Tilting the balance towards the killer as much as it might actually be the more 'balanced' thing to do as far as the game being played well is concerned, may not actually be the right move.
Ultimately you can set up competitive leagues and whatnot with rules to hinder the survivors if need be but the game being played publicly should be largely 'chill' and not taken seriously. Hence why dealing with frustration factors and people deliberately attempting to 'bully' and better solutions to extreme tunnelling should be a very high priority.
0 -
Why would they? The game still does well and survivors are easier to make/sell skins for anyway.
Also name an asymmetrical game where the 1 was stronger than the 4 if they were coordinated
0 -
I'm not sure if it's that simple.
At lower MMRs, the killer is the power role for sure. As skill levels rise, survivor becomes the power role, especially with SWF in the mix. At the absolute highest MMRs, playing the best killers, killer and survivor are about even.
The problem is that the game has a 'blind RNG' nature, where you can basically win or lose games before they even start. A kitted out Nurse or Blight versus a bunch of randos with meme builds - the killer will likely dominate. A full SWF with meta perks and offerings against a Pig - the survivors will dominate.
That said:
This number is complete rubbish - it's massively offset by new players. By your logic, Nurse needs a significant buff, because her gross kill rates are really low.
What needs to happen is:
- Buffing most killers up to 'A' tier.
- Giving solo survivors help, to bring them up closer to SWF levels.
- SWF getting an SBMM tweak, so that SWF teams are matched against better killer players to offset the incredible bonus that coordination and communication provide.
3 -
I'm not sure if "power role" is actually a real term within game development, but my understanding of the concept of the power role isn't, like... whichever one happens to be stronger?
The killer cannot be removed from the match, and can only be ran from or briefly stunned. They are, regardless of balance, the power role, because the inherent mechanics at play imbue them with far more sturdiness and inevitability than the survivor role. The fact that certain survivor tools are too strong doesn't make them the power role, it just makes those things too strong.
I also feel like a lot of people think being the "power role" should mean you win by default and only lose chases if you mess up, which is... pretty obviously silly? It's a video game, skill expression should matter on both sides. In a more balanced version of the game, survivors are still going to have agency in chase and the killer is still going to have to try.
6 -
There always is counterplay. Deathslinger's counterplay was ShiftW and losing LOS, like every other ranged Killer.
Ok, if PH put Survivors in lose-lose situation and got therefore nerfed, why hasn't Demogorgon, which does the exact same thing, tho not trough walls, been nerfed? Maybe because Survivors put themselves in lose-lose situations, not the Killer.
Survivors control the flow of the chase, Killers can only react. If a Survivor tries to loop PH at an LT wall, we'll, no wonder they got hit
2 -
Yeah no, I gotta disagree big time.
The next Killer under Blight is Spirit, and without Add-Ons and maybe a good Map, she can't beat a good 4man
0 -
Let me fix it for you:
Does Behaviour regret making very specific SWF groups the power role?
Maybe what you wanted when you bought this game is watching a cutscene, not play a competitive game?
0 -
So you don’t think someone like pyramid head can compete? He’s crazy strong
0 -
Pyramid also
0 -
No, not really. If the Killer above them strength wise can't deal with 4mans, then they won't be able to either
2 -
No, his tunneling is good but requires Survivors to step on his Trails, and his 1v1 is pretty easy to dodge, unless Survivors make a big mistake, and it gets countered by DH
2 -
Can‘t they? Evidence needed.
0 -
True but you cannot deny that he has very strong antiloop and can deny both ds and bt. That’s huge
0 -
Dont know why anyone would think that survivor is the powerrole. What power do they have? The power of running away? Scary indeed.If survs would be favored, why dont they get the buff they want, but instead we only get survivor nerfs even on useless stuff for years? Maybe understand that this game isnt a slasher-simualator. Its still the oldschool priciple of horror escape. In every 1vs4 game the ONE will be the stressful role. thats how this genre works out. if you dont like that, play something different, then asymmetrical gameplay isnt for you. your post is just a rant, not a single argument.
3 -
Huntress maybe, but that's if she gets a good Map or not, but Demogorgon and Pinhead? Absolutely not.
As much as I love Demogorgon, he can't deal with a 4man. His Shred is amazing, one of the better "non-Blight/Nurse" 1v1 abilities in the game, but it's not enough to deal with Pallet density and DH validating Shred (which hasn't been fixed so I'm counting it as a base-kit feature).
Pinhead even more no.
A C, almost D tier, Killer is nowhere near good enough to beat even a 2man. His 1v1 worthless, barely passable with Impaling Wire and his Box depends solely on the Survivors
3 -
Does BHVR regret making killers the power role?
A 1v4 game, anyone would think that the 4 players working together well would be able to outperform the 1. Well not in dbd, here the 1 player is the power role and are favoured by the devs in such a way that they hold the power to completely grief the experience of the 4. Maps designs always favour them, they get second chances to fix their mistakes and the opposing team has no way to communicate despite it being a team game. The survivors who always rely on their solo queue team mates not making game throwing misplays have to constantly try to make effecient decisions despite a lack of information lol. Now the solo survivor role is so trashed and feels so stressful that very few people wanna play it, making SWF groups more common. So making killer the power role really backfired for Behavior eventually didn't it? It was only a matter of time. They kept favouring the majority, groups and killers, but forgot they NEED solo players to have dbd.
2 -
the cages deny bt as well and even then he can get two people at the same time when camping a hook
1 -
I only see Impaling Wire help him on indoor Maps, otherwise it's passable at best.
That requires Survivors to make mistakes, which good Survivors won't do most of the time, and if they do finally make a mistake, it usually isn't enough to win the game
3 -
Pallet density is only a problem if the pallets are very safe.
Having a lot of deadzones is just as bad as having a lot of strong pallets.
Ideally there should be an even distribution of things for survivors to work with that aren’t incredibly safe.
You also act like a strong 4-man team should not be able to beat any killer. If 4 people who play together are really good they should have a decent chance of winning.
2 -
Huntress - sure. She's also quite high tier.
Demo and Pinhead - absolutely not. Both have an incredibly telegraphed anti-loop/gap closer that is easy to avoid and extremely punishing for the killer if you manage it.
Spirit is only really good with the MDR+Blossom combo, which is an iri and an ultra-rare. Without them, she's...iffy.
I'd reckon Artist is much more consistent, and I'd probably put Plague up there too.
1 -
I have seen your demo and pinhead gameplay. Way better than mine. But if you ever play pyramid head then I’ll be there for sure
0 -
I don’t think Behaviour believes they did.
2
