Camping isn't fun for anyone
Camping isn't fun for anyone. The killer waits around doing nothing, which is boring and not tense. The person being camped usually gets tunnelled til they're dead, spending all their time on a hook, which is frustrating, and not tense or scary. The people trying to get a safe unhook usually can't bait the killer away, so they either trade or safely do gens, which isn't tense or scary.
Camping turns Dead By Daylight from a fun and exciting horror game into a dead and unexciting one.
The game would be much better if killers had to be a certain distance away from hooked survivors for the sacrifice bar to progress.
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What do you mean by "camping isn't fun"? I get 4k most of the time by just waiting near the hooked person.
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Agreed it's not fun but at times Patrolling around the hook is necessary.
A Smart killer isn't going to go too far from the Hook if they don't see any Auras on BBQ, It just wouldn't make sense.
They also aren't going to waste time hitting a different survivor twice when someone is already injured and has hook progression. Tunneling is the only way some killers can secure some kills since Chasing and Hooking someone takes so much more time than completing a Gen.Until something is done about the Time Imbalance between Killer and Survivor objectives, Expect this kind of Gameplay to be the Norm.
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I purely think they need to make penalties for killers that tunnel and camp. Like if a killer got someone down once then goes for them again to soon they get slow down when going for them unless they go for someone else then back to them again. And sitting by the hooked survivor should make them have like a fall asleep cool down. Like they cannot move cause they fell asleep for like 5 sec, each time they stay near the hooked survivor they get a sec added on. It would even that bull ######### out.or they can just lower the bloodpoints for doing tunneling or camping.
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Camping
I love the whole camping stuff. If killer stands infront of a Hook all remaining Survivors will just rush Generators and open the Gates before the Survivor on the hook dies. Also the Killer wont get enought points for just hooking 1 Survivor.
Tunneling:
If you unhook a Survivor infront of the Killer he will go for the weaker one ofc (its not the killers fault lul). It`s a Teamgame so help the one gettin focused by adding Generator Pressure or distracting Killer.0 -
Definitely not fun, but sometimes it's necessary. I hate it on both sides (though the more time they camp me, the mor time I buy for the rest. If they aren't dumb, they will be actively doing something.) but I won't say it needs to go.
What are they going to do? Let you get unhooked and run straight out the exit?
Killers need points, too, and letting you go is detrimental to getting them.
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@Bongbingbing said:
Until something is done about the Time Imbalance between Killer and Survivor objectives, Expect this kind of Gameplay to be the Norm.
Something can be done. It isn't necessary for it to be the norm.
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@Rebel_Raven said:
Definitely not fun, but sometimes it's necessary. I hate it on both sides (though the more time they camp me, the mor time I buy for the rest. If they aren't dumb, they will be actively doing something.) but I won't say it needs to go.What are they going to do? Let you get unhooked and run straight out the exit?
Killers need points, too, and letting you go is detrimental to getting them.
If you hate it, then why not look for alternatives. The game could be rebalanced in a way that stops camping from being a meta tactic, so that killers no longer need to do it to get points. With what I proposed, camping would still be a valid tactic for finding survivors, but once you see one it'd be beneficial to actually chase them instead of tunnelling the already hooked person.
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Because the only people that can make alternatives are the devs. I think they gave up after Bbq and chili, and the emblem penalty was added for camping.Kaldrax said:@Rebel_Raven said:
Definitely not fun, but sometimes it's necessary. I hate it on both sides (though the more time they camp me, the mor time I buy for the rest. If they aren't dumb, they will be actively doing something.) but I won't say it needs to go.What are they going to do? Let you get unhooked and run straight out the exit?
Killers need points, too, and letting you go is detrimental to getting them.
If you hate it, then why not look for alternatives. The game could be rebalanced in a way that stops camping from being a meta tactic, so that killers no longer need to do it to get points. With what I proposed, camping would still be a valid tactic for finding survivors, but once you see one it'd be beneficial to actually chase them instead of tunnelling the already hooked person.
Survivors won't cooperate, and I can't imagine what could be done to give the killer more benefit than a sacrifice. They will abuse anything they can tk hurt the killer in general.
Your idea is not that great. It punishes killers because they can't stop a survivor from unhooking their buddy because they would be penalized for being that close.
It's basically asking for free unhooks.
The main time, imo, for camping is when the generators are done.
There is just a massive, gaping safety zone created once the gates are open where most killers are completely powerless to stop a survivor from escaping.
If they let the survivor get unhooked, there's basically not much they can do to stop them unless there is a chase half way across the map.
That said, a killer would be crazy, or nice to not guard the hook.
Most times people swarm the hook to get rescues, or trades and that just rewards the killer for staying near the hook.
Most seem to rather want to exploit that than anything.
All in all, there isn't much that's more rewarding to most killers than making sure someone gets sacrificed.
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Everytime an incentive is given the opposing side asks for changes. If killer was a bot then fine give them parameters to define play, but these are people and worst thing for a player is having no options in terms of what they can do. Killers shouldbe free to kill you as they see fit, preventing that is on you. Just about one thing all horror themed Killers have in common is they enjoy watching a helpless victim. For some it's not about the blood points, they just want to watch a Survivor die.0
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Because the only people that can make alternatives are the devs. I think they gave up after Bbq and chili, and the emblem penalty was added for camping.
Yeah that's what I'm suggesting. Let the devs make alternatives.
Survivors won't cooperate, and I can't imagine what could be done to give the killer more benefit than a sacrifice. They will abuse anything they can tk hurt the killer in general.
Your idea is not that great. It punishes killers because they can't stop a survivor from unhooking their buddy because they would be penalized for being that close.
It's basically asking for free unhooks.What's wrong with free unhooks? The best part of the game is the chases. Why not encourage more chases? My idea would do exactly that.
The main time, imo, for camping is when the generators are done.
There is just a massive, gaping safety zone created once the gates are open where most killers are completely powerless to stop a survivor from escaping.
If they let the survivor get unhooked, there's basically not much they can do to stop them unless there is a chase half way across the map.
That said, a killer would be crazy, or nice to not guard the hook.I agree with you here. Let the killers camp when gens are done. Other survivors can decide whether to help their friend or ditch em. My idea would still make this a valid tactic.
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Because chases don't work well in getting me blood points.Kaldrax said:Because the only people that can make alternatives are the devs. I think they gave up after Bbq and chili, and the emblem penalty was added for camping.
Yeah that's what I'm suggesting. Let the devs make alternatives.
Survivors won't cooperate, and I can't imagine what could be done to give the killer more benefit than a sacrifice. They will abuse anything they can tk hurt the killer in general.
Your idea is not that great. It punishes killers because they can't stop a survivor from unhooking their buddy because they would be penalized for being that close.
It's basically asking for free unhooks.What's wrong with free unhooks? The best part of the game is the chases. Why not encourage more chases? My idea would do exactly that.
The main time, imo, for camping is when the generators are done.
There is just a massive, gaping safety zone created once the gates are open where most killers are completely powerless to stop a survivor from escaping.
If they let the survivor get unhooked, there's basically not much they can do to stop them unless there is a chase half way across the map.
That said, a killer would be crazy, or nice to not guard the hook.I agree with you here. Let the killers camp when gens are done. Other survivors can decide whether to help their friend or ditch em. My idea would still make this a valid tactic.
I do agree, though. The hunt, chases, and hits are the more fun parts. If I could get by without hooking anyone again, I'd be glad. Problem is, I can't.
Of course I'm not mean enough to want to just slug people. At least not all of them at once.
Can't say your suggestion would help. Can't keep punishing killers. Hooks, and sacrifices are their major source for points.
Reward them for making the game fun.
Reward survivors for making the game fun.
Encourage longer, more action packed matches.
Part of the reason people score low is that scoring revolves around interaction between the two sides and if someone gen rushes, or blasts through survivors they don't have the time to earn more points.0 -
Because chases don't work well in getting me blood points.
I do agree, though. The hunt, chases, and hits are the more fun parts. If I could get by without hooking anyone again, I'd be glad. Problem is, I can't.
Of course I'm not mean enough to want to just slug people. At least not all of them at once.Can't say your suggestion would help. Can't keep punishing killers. Hooks, and sacrifices are their major source for points.
Reward them for making the game fun.
Reward survivors for making the game fun.
Encourage longer, more action packed matches.
Part of the reason people score low is that scoring revolves around interaction between the two sides and if someone gen rushes, or blasts through survivors they don't have the time to earn more points.Hooks and sacrifices don't have to be the major source for points though. All these things are entirely within the devs power to change. I totally agree, reward them for making it fun! Make the fun stuff the right thing to do to win!
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I think it should be made that if you're within three meters to the survivor, their dying meter doesn't deplete, unless they're the last survivor, in which case they're sacrificed immediately. If you're outside of that range but still within ten meters the dying meter depletes as normal, but get slower the longer you're in that range, and the speed doesn't "refresh" if you walk out of the range and go back in.
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@perotx said:
I think it should be made that if you're within three meters to the survivor, their dying meter doesn't deplete, unless they're the last survivor, in which case they're sacrificed immediately. If you're outside of that range but still within ten meters the dying meter depletes as normal, but get slower the longer you're in that range, and the speed doesn't "refresh" if you walk out of the range and go back in.Already tried and abused by Survivors, much to nobody's surprise.
Try thinking outside the box and rewarding Killers for leaving the hook.0 -
Faking unhook attempts to see if the Killer hit them, presenting themselves as bait (which is so obvious that nobody fell for it), squatting around the hook in groups, and so on. Y'know, exactly what they do now.
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@Orion said:
Faking unhook attempts to see if the Killer hit them, presenting themselves as bait (which is so obvious that nobody fell for it), squatting around the hook in groups, and so on. Y'know, exactly what they do now.
How does that abuse the proposed rule change, though? The killer can (and I'd argue they should) go on a chase instead of trying to camp the person they already hooked. Why not let the survivors get the unhook so the hooked person can go back to playing the game?
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ooooor (crazy idea incoming) we could actually reward a killer for not camping, instead of punishing him for doing so.
i know its crazy.
but it might actually work.0 -
@Kaldrax said:
@Orion said:
Faking unhook attempts to see if the Killer hit them, presenting themselves as bait (which is so obvious that nobody fell for it), squatting around the hook in groups, and so on. Y'know, exactly what they do now.
How does that abuse the proposed rule change, though? The killer can (and I'd argue they should) go on a chase instead of trying to camp the person they already hooked. Why not let the survivors get the unhook so the hooked person can go back to playing the game?
Because it's forcing the Killers to reward a stupid play by the Survivors. It's absurd that I even have to explain this, but making it so your opponent cannot capitalize on your mistakes makes a game unfair and unbalanced.
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@Mister_xD said:
ooooor (crazy idea incoming) we could actually reward a killer for not camping, instead of punishing him for doing so.i know its crazy.
but it might actually work.I've thought about that, but I don't think it would work. Camping is too strong of a tactic. No point reward is going to incentivize people to stop doing what helps them win.
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@Orion said:
Because it's forcing the Killers to reward a stupid play by the Survivors. It's absurd that I even have to explain this, but making it so your opponent cannot capitalize on your mistakes makes a game unfair and unbalanced.
Like I said on your other post, it's only stupid because of the way the rules are set up. Change the rules, and you change what's smart and what's not. It's absurd that I even have to explain this.
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@Kaldrax said:
@Mister_xD said:
ooooor (crazy idea incoming) we could actually reward a killer for not camping, instead of punishing him for doing so.i know its crazy.
but it might actually work.I've thought about that, but I don't think it would work. Camping is too strong of a tactic. No point reward is going to incentivize people to stop doing what helps them win.
Nobody said "point reward", that's just your Survivor main nature talking. Killers, for the most part, don't care about points. They're not playing point farmer; they're playing Killer. Try again.
@Kaldrax said:
@Orion said:
Because it's forcing the Killers to reward a stupid play by the Survivors. It's absurd that I even have to explain this, but making it so your opponent cannot capitalize on your mistakes makes a game unfair and unbalanced.
Like I said on your other post, it's only stupid because of the way the rules are set up. Change the rules, and you change what's smart and what's not. It's absurd that I even have to explain this.
For it to not be stupid, you'd have to make the Killer so absurdly overpowered (to compensate for the fact that he's being forced to have all his progress undone) that nobody would play Survivor.
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@Orion said:
Nobody said "point reward", that's just your Survivor main nature talking. Killers, for the most part, don't care about points. They're not playing point farmer; they're playing Killer. Try again.
That's literally what I just said. They don't care about points and that's why it wouldn't work. The reward has to be killing and winning. That's why camping needs to be punished, so that it's a bad way of winning.
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It is, but clearly you're not familiar with how balancing works.
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@Kaldrax said:
@Orion said:
Nobody said "point reward", that's just your Survivor main nature talking. Killers, for the most part, don't care about points. They're not playing point farmer; they're playing Killer. Try again.
That's literally what I just said. They don't care about points and that's why it wouldn't work. The reward has to be killing and winning. That's why camping needs to be punished, so that it's a bad way of winning.
There are ways you can reward something besides points. Try thinking outside the box for a moment, maybe read a book on game development, paying particular attention to the chapters dedicated to reward systems.
Camping is already a bad way of winning... if the Survivors are smart. The Killer is doing nothing for 2 minutes, which should be more than enough to repair every remaining generator and leave.0 -
@Orion said:
There are ways you can reward something besides points. Try thinking outside the box for a moment, maybe read a book on game development, paying particular attention to the chapters dedicated to reward systems.
Camping is already a bad way of winning... if the Survivors are smart. The Killer is doing nothing for 2 minutes, which should be more than enough to repair every remaining generator and leave.Yeah and that's what happens in SWF matches. But when teams can't communicate camping is a great way to waste tons of survivor time as they all try to go for the unhook then realize they can't.
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In response to your comment about reward systems, there are two rewards when playing killer in DBD. The intrinsic reward of hooking and killing survivors, and the extrinsic rewards of points. There are no other real rewards in the game. If not points, then how would you propose rewarding the killer for not camping? Giving them a buff? Surely that'd throw the balance out of whack.
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Actually, now you got me thinking. If something similar to Devour Hope became part of killer's built-in kit, where you get tokens for being X many meters away from an unhook, which after 4-6 allowed you to kill survivors by your hand. That might be reward enough. I wonder if survivors would complain about that too much...
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Or maybe if you are X meters from an unhook, the unhooked person becomes marked, allowing you to kill them by your hand.
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@Kaldrax said:
@Mister_xD said:
ooooor (crazy idea incoming) we could actually reward a killer for not camping, instead of punishing him for doing so.i know its crazy.
but it might actually work.I've thought about that, but I don't think it would work. Camping is too strong of a tactic. No point reward is going to incentivize people to stop doing what helps them win.
Too strong a tactic?
Sure at rank 20.
At rank 10 and above that's 1 kill and 3 escapes, with no NoED that's not even 1 kill they will just send a borrowed time guy in.
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@GraviteaUK said:
Too strong a tactic?
Sure at rank 20.
At rank 10 and above that's 1 kill and 3 escapes, with no NoED that's not even 1 kill they will just send a borrowed time guy in.
I'll agree that at high ranks camping becomes less effective because more survivors know not to feed, but I see lots of successful campers even in purple ranks.
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@Kaldrax said:
@GraviteaUK said:
Too strong a tactic?
Sure at rank 20.
At rank 10 and above that's 1 kill and 3 escapes, with no NoED that's not even 1 kill they will just send a borrowed time guy in.
I'll agree that at high ranks camping becomes less effective because more survivors know not to feed, but I see lots of successful campers even in purple ranks.
And why are they successful? because survivors need to learn not to take the bait and run the gens.
I fail to see why this needs a solution that affects the killer at all.
This is a problem created by survivors and can be resolved by survivors in many different ways.
If survivors get spoon fed crutch solutions like free unhooks how will they ever learn?
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@GraviteaUK said:
And why are they successful? because survivors need to learn not to take the bait and run the gens.
I fail to see why this needs a solution that affects the killer at all.
This is a problem created by survivors and can be resolved by survivors in many different ways.
If survivors get spoon fed crutch solutions like free unhooks how will they ever learn?
It's not so much about learning, but about how fun the game is. Being camped and tunnelled is boring and frustrating. With wait times as they are, lately I've been putting down DBD and playing other games because I don't want to wait 10 minutes for a match, only to be the first survivor found, then camped and tunnelled. It's not a fun experience and I feel like I've wasted my time. I know others feel the same way. I'm sure the devs want people to have fun playing their game and for them to keep playing it and purchasing new content.
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@Kaldrax said:
@GraviteaUK said:
And why are they successful? because survivors need to learn not to take the bait and run the gens.
I fail to see why this needs a solution that affects the killer at all.
This is a problem created by survivors and can be resolved by survivors in many different ways.
If survivors get spoon fed crutch solutions like free unhooks how will they ever learn?
It's not so much about learning, but about how fun the game is. Being camped and tunnelled is boring and frustrating. With wait times as they are, lately I've been putting down DBD and playing other games because I don't want to wait 10 minutes for a match, only to be the first survivor found, then camped and tunnelled. It's not a fun experience and I feel like I've wasted my time. I know others feel the same way. I'm sure the devs want people to have fun playing their game and for them to keep playing it and purchasing new content.
You know also what's boring and frustrating? being looped for 2 gens only to have the guy hit a skillcheck instaheal himself and start the process all over again, lets nerf everything.
Or run against a full immersive team, find maybe 1-2 people and get gen rushed to oblivion.
As i sympathise with you yes getting tunnelled and camped is not fun, however you know what prevents this? don't get caught and get better at chases.
Killers can be looped for ages if you know what you're doing it's just a case of learning.
The answer to everything is not to nerf everything this game is deceptively detailed and tactical the higher you go on the surface it looks basic but it's really not, as much as i don't like the term "Git Gud" it certainly applies here.
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@Kaldrax said:
Camping isn't fun for anyone. The killer waits around doing nothing, which is boring and not tense. The person being camped usually gets tunnelled til they're dead, spending all their time on a hook, which is frustrating, and not tense or scary. The people trying to get a safe unhook usually can't bait the killer away, so they either trade or safely do gens, which isn't tense or scary.Camping turns Dead By Daylight from a fun and exciting horror game into a dead and unexciting one.
The game would be much better if killers had to be a certain distance away from hooked survivors for the sacrifice bar to progress.
fun and exciting horror game...where your running a killer around a piece of wood...and then whining on the forums cuz the killer made sure you die afterwords...
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