I think the new Mori change is really bad for the game, here's why
Comments
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Yeah, but Peanits — consider that there are other reasons to get the down on the final survivor that aren't "establishing dominance." I've definitely been in chases with the final survivor and that player is skilled. They clearly want to be pursued for real, and it's obvious we both, mutually, want to have that one last chase.
Nothing wrong with killing them if you catch them and want to, but sometimes you would prefer to gift them the hatch. It's one of those moments that, if it feels like the most fitting match ending to you, makes you feel good about the other human behind the character you're playing against and maybe makes your day a little brighter.
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Yeah the auto mori is the odd thing about this.
What if you only have 3 BBQ stacks and this is the first down on that last survivor.
Its a good idea, but it should be activated so you could hook or give hatch if you wanted.
Personally I'd like to see the egc just make you able to mori people. last or otherwise.
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I really don’t like this change. You basically get punished for lasting the longest lmao. Also I like carrying survivors to hatch or letting them wiggle of to let them know that I’m not gonna kill them.
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Add me into the "it should be optional" camp. I've downed the last survivor before, started carrying them to a hook, and heard the hatch nearby and decided to give it to them. That'll be gone if this change goes through as announced. I don't always know when or if I'm going to give hatch until it happens -- as others have said, I've gone on chases with someone at the end, was impressed how they played, and then decided to give hatch as they were downed. Throw that out the window with this change. And as has been pointed out, maybe I want a hook for a Rift challenge, or a last stack of BBQ, or whatever reason.
Having the Mori be at the killer's discretion is the much better alternative, and I would guess most people would agree with that. We'll see if BHVR listens to the feedback before this gets implemented.
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How is killing the last survivor "bullying"? Its literally the entire point of the role
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Oh wow... Yep, both of those scenarios would be incredibly frustrating as survivor if the Mori was instant.
If I did that as Huntress, and the unlucky survivor was JUST A HAIR short of the door because they just wanted to get their "survive while x survivors escape" challenge and they barely misjudged their position or they have a dumb teammate who body blocks them or something, I wouldn't even feel great about it if I was fully intending to just make that person fall out the door and do better next game and, whoops, now I have no control over killing them.
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It would be funny to watch, but probably incredibly frustrating, I hope they decide to not go through with the 'instant mori animation's and instead have it be and m1 like normal moris.
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This was pretty interesting when they mentioned the finisher mori in the stream. Its certainly going to change how survivors act and react in exit gates and after doors are powered. It seems like the whole picking survivors up and carrying them to hatch won't be a thing anymore from what I understand. Maybe killers can get a prompt to spare the last survivor so they can choose what they want to do. In that case, the last survivor will never know what the killer will choose and it would make the situation more thrilling.
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Adding my +1 to the "this is a bad change and I don't want to see it happen" train.
There's three main reasons I'm really opposed to this change, the first two of which have already been brought up by several others.
-It removes the agency of the killer to spare the last survivor. Many survivors will BM or act nastily in postgame chat if they believe they got the hatch by themselves, even if the killer literally followed them without swinging the whole way, but be chill if the killer drags them there and it's clear the killer 'won.' Seen the difference plenty of times on streamer playbacks. Other survivors are distrustful or scared and won't follow the killer to the hatch, continuing to flee or hide and extend the game. Sometimes downing the survivor and carrying them is necessary to stall out the endgame collapse long enough to get them out the door. Sometimes a survivor is trying to sacrifice themselves while a killer is trying to shove them out the gate, and the killer needs to pick them up and drop them out the exit gate in order to get them out alive. And sometimes the killer doesn't plan on sparing the survivor, but they don't wiggle or the hatch spawns beneath them or they try to offer their item at the very last second before the killer hits them, too late to pull back but still recognized by the other player. Mercy to the last survivor after a great chase or a mutually fun game has always been one of the most heartwarming and... ultimately healing parts of the DBD experience and I'd hate to see it go.
-It auto-kills a survivor in innumerable situations where they would have had the opportunity to escape, anywhere from unlikely to 100% guaranteed - inches from crawling out of the gates or hatch, DS, Power Struggle, Soul Guard, Flip-Flop, all hooks in the area have been destroyed, they were slugged before the killer killed the third survivor and the killer doesn't know where they are, so on.
And for the last reason that nobody has brought up yet...
-It completely removes the possibility of other survivors interacting with the mori cinematic, because now moris can only happen in a situation when everyone else is dead. You can no longer have survivors doing the pointing wojak meme while Pinhead sends someone to Brazil, or photobombing Ghostface's selfie, or sneaking up to touch the butt while Mikey knifes someone, or a killer mori-ing all four survivors in one big pile. And these are always hilarious when they happen.
Overall, this change as stated would be a really bad hit to both the actually positive culture of DBD and the tense, breath-holding, butt-clenching moments that people really live to play for. If you want to prevent bleeding out the last survivor, which is probably the one positive result of the stated change, there's better ways to do it.
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Why is everything yes or no in this game? Why no options?
Just let us choose ffs. Also with the wiggle skillchecks. I hate them and want to keep the old thing but that wont be possible. Now I will have to listen to that awful annoying sound it makes while being carried.
Not to mention these new moris will kill the most fun interaction I had in the game - carry the last survivor or being carried to the hatch
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Your idea is fair, but from a game design and usability standpoint, it makes far more sense to just have the endgame mori just be an option the same way it is right now, where you simply hold down the attack button. Your idea of having a prompt for the killer to click on would get in the way of gameplay, but the spirit of your suggestion is exactly where it should be - allowing freedom of choice and chances of friendly bonding moments.
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I really don't see the issue
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Very well said. Thank you for supporting my suggestion (and ultimately supporting the positive and mutually enjoyable nature of the game)
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So wait, have I understood it correctly? If I'm the last survivor and I get downed by the edge of the gate, do I automatically get moried when I could have escaped before this is implemented?
If that's the case, it -is- actually a horrible change. Things happening automatically in a competitive game are really boring.
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I disagree that the game is competitive but I appreciate your input in the thread.
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Its gonna suck tbh, I'd they worded it correctly.
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What if that last survivor is my last BBQ stack? I cant hook them since I have to mori, so i dont get the stack?
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So I suppose slugging everyone is now the best possible play for killers? I assume after you've sacrificed the third survivor the fourth one will be immediately killed via cutscene without you needing to find them after they crawled off to god knows where to cheese the hatch.
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I suppose that as the devs said, there will be some new details that they will say later, because if it stays as a mori for the last player, it loses all the essence.
I suppose that when the time comes, it will tell the operation of how a mori can win in the middle of a game for playing "well"
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Ive been missing it for years since I cant remember the last time a Killer did it for me or any other Survivor on the trial and no, there wasnt any toxicity involved on most games... on the other hand I can remember vividly the last time the last Survivor got slugged for 4 minutes because reasons, it was around 9 days ago.
Forcing the Killer to end the game when last person gets downed is a way of stopping that, my main concern is what about BPs and BBQ stacks if the last one didnt get hooked the entire game.
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Since they're changing the Meta what makes you certain that you'll still have to get BBQ Stacks at that point? Maybe they'll won't exist anymore. Maybe not even the hatch. Who knows that right now?
Considering the gameplay we have right now I'd add myself to the "I-don't-want this-Mori-change-Camp" but I'm open for some plot twists regarding this
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Just walk close to them then to assert your dominance then. lol
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This might be hinting that BBQ will lose its stacks, and the emblem system might be changed? Because if the last person can get auto-mori, then the killer might lose +25% BBQ bloodpoints, or they might lose 1 or 2 sacrifice emblem points.
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I do appreciate the effort for changes in gameplay alot but this specific one i think goes currently in the wrong direction. Why not just let the last survivor bleed out after 15-30s on the ground and make the mori optional so you can carry them to the hatch after having this pressure-detached moment of the last chase. The game is over anyway it doesnt add anything to the atmosphere how the last seconds turns out but it adds to the toxicity level. I agree this is a positive aspect of DBD culture that i appreciated since ive started. Honestly if nice moments like the hatch-carry wouldnt exist in this game i probably wouldve never found enough motivation to come back after my break because the toxicity level in this game is so overwhelming negative.
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"Change is bad because I can no longer assert the dominance, be toxic and close the hatch in survivor's face"
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This Final Mori should be an option for the killer, not a duty. Then it would be fine.
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Say what you will but standing on top of the open hatch cloaked as wraith then kicking it shut when they're nearly there is hilarious
(then I let them have the door bc I'm nice really)
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I had a game yesterday as doctor where a leon hid from me until the very end when all his friends were dead. I found him after closing hatch and he just gave up. The was never hooked until etc and that got me the 12 "hook" quota and my last bbq stack. If this change is implemented I would have lost 2 of the hook stage points and bbq stack and gotten the lesser mori event. I get they want to avoid the 4 minute bleedout wait time but can't they just ramp up the timer to go 4 times faster or something?
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This. So much this.
I'm playing killer to chase people. I want to outwit them. I enjoy playing the powers that are a bit harder to control and trying to learn them.
During a game, there's sometimes one survivor who is really good and I have a lot of fun chasing. We have one final chase. Sometimes they get hatch during the chase which is really fun. Sometimes they don't and I down them. Since I had so much fun chasing them specifically, I like to give them hatch as a way to say "gg". If they're on console, it's the only way I can say good game!
When I first started playing, I remember getting carried to hatch in one of my first games. I thought it was such a simple gesture to spend the time to go give someone the escape to say good game. It kind of felt like a special part of the game.
Making the yellow mori basekit AND automatic kind of seems like it's throwing all of that away.
When it was announced there was a mori rework I kind of figured it would be something similar to a devour that can be activated basekit when survivors were being dominated. Or a kind of endgame where the hatch spawns and then the mori starts "charging" to start forcing the game to a close. The "let's make yellow mori basekit and automatic" isn't really what I was imagining and it's both boring and takes away something special from the game.
If it was just yellow mori is basekit, I don't think that's a problem and it seems like a simple and fun change. It's the automatic part I have a problem with.
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I must admit this was probably the only thing in the stream I didn't like.
As a killer I give the hatch to the last survivor in 99% of my games where I would have got the 4k.
Personally i'd prefer a "finishing" mori token earned for every 2 hooks (only able to use on death hook survivors) so hooking all 4 survivors twice enables you to mori everyone.
I wouldn't even be against having to hook everyone twice each then permanently unlocking mori for the rest of the game.
It won't make campers change their playstyles but it would reward & encourage some others to spread the hooks & go for the full killer experience!
Or even give the killers 4 mori's so they get more vicious with each kill!
It should just be optional & how are the achievements for the 4k mori going to be changed?
I have the achievement on pretty much everything anyway but not everyone does & they always get changed to something easy or worse in general.
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I'm with OP on this one - The killer is all about being the power role - That feel of the survivor knowing you could hook them at any time but you're generously carrying them to hatch cannot be matched - Taking that element of the game away I feels takes away player interaction in a negative way. It's all about the experience.
I feel just giving killers the yellow mori by default as an option would be ideal instead of making the choice for them. I get the idea of getting rid of the chance to slug the last survivor for their full bleedout was probably in mind but if that's considered let the last survivor opt out by pressing a button to die.
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the only reason why somebody would want the mori to be "automatic" instead of optional is because they don't want the slugging on the ground of the end game.
However, at least in my experience this is far less frequent than:
- last second DS
- being downed right at the edge of the hatch / door, and escape during the cooldown animation of the killer
- killers giving the hatch
- absurdly clutch last second Soul Guard / styptic agent play
These are all interactions denied to the survivors, and I won't even mention what's getting denied to the killer since, per my assumption, the reason why the mori is automatic is to prevent killers toxicity.
Agency shouldn't be removed from the player if possible. If you want to remove the end game slugging then introduce something like a much faster bleeding on the ground while you are the last survivor, or a give up button.
I can assure you that this change, as far as toxic players go, will have the complete opposite effect: instead of slugging the last survivor, they will start slugging the last two or even three. (yes, some already do that, but this mori change wouldn't affect them anyway)
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....... This almost never happens. What are you on?
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Oh... OH! I bet you're right! This makes moris happen way more often, and adds the option to sell moris as a customization!
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What does that even mean? If you're letting them go, you're already in the upper echelons of sportsmanship. I'd agree with what you're saying if you were talking about the kind of "asserting dominance" player who carries people to hatch and gates to close them in their face and then bleeds them out, but normal giving hatch is... not that.
I like making survivors acknowledge that I'm being friendly, or at the very least, that I liked them and that this is deliberate. There's a lot of toxicity and nastiness in this game's culture, and that creates an environment where players don't expect the other side to be decent to them, and if there's any other explanation for what's going on, they'll gravitate towards that. Like if you follow somebody to the hatch, they're very liable to assume "He's just waiting until I get close and then he'll run in front of me and shut it" and then, when that doesn't happen, "he messed it up and I managed to get out." Same goes for survivors intentionally offering hooks in the middle of a bad game - reactions range from "this guy is mocking me and I got the better of him" to "did his controller just die?" because "the survivor is actually being nice to me" is so far from consideration. Intent doesn't come across very well in this game even if you think it's clear from your actions - just the other day, I had a streamer complaining that I was going for a 4-man slug and that I was a PoS when I was actually just farming bloodpoints without killing anyone because someone brought a cake. And what the other player thinks does matter, because it's how they're going to treat you in postgame chat and it's also the mindset they're going to proceed into their next match with.
Besides, I want to have that one last chase that wraps up the game - maybe I really wouldn't have caught them. And on the survivor end... I don't doubt many people prefer to believe they escaped by the skin of their teeth, but I really like the certainty that the other player is being nice to you. You put up with a lot of BS in this game and it's nice to get a clear reminder that not everyone is like that, that there's expressly good sportsmanship to go along with the bad. Plus it's really funny to watch a killer carrying a survivor around like a backpack wandering the entire map.
I also dislike this change because it takes away my agency when a survivor is trying to sacrifice themselves for me. It's pretty common when you help someone do a challenge, or they befriend you during the match, that they decide they're going to die for you at the end. The killer might accept that as tribute, or they might want their new buddy to live. Right now, the killer can down them, carry them to the exit gates, and drop them until they wiggle off while facing perpendicular to the boundary to automatically yeet them out the door. That's also going away if this goes live.
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I guess its too hard for BHVR to just give the option like with actual moris.
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This cannot possibly be the official response.
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Why they don't just let you hit the survivors downing them to the ground as always and give the possibility to grab the survivor or make the mori as a regular mori/rancor/davour hope?
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Please, I want to carry Yui to hatch.
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Exactly
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Isn't there some irony in calling it a "finisher" mori when even in MK, the player has the choice to perform it or not? Removing player agency is a bad idea. Let me end the match on my terms instead of a forced cutscene. That will get really boring and repetitive after a few days.
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But you agree that it does happen. That alone is good enough of a reason for the change. It's not a bannable offense, but it is something that drags out games for up to 8 extra minutes for no reason at all. If it's not gonna be bannable, then it has to be removed to be an option in the first place.
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I can count it happening to me or people I play with at least 10 times just this year. It's been getting more frequent since SBMM had been introduced.
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I never implied most killers to be toxic, I havent even mentioned how many killers went for the 4th hook or gave the exit gate instead. But getting carried to hatch, especially in higher mmr, is getting more and more rare, while being bled out on the floor is getting more and more common. I can count on 1 hand how often that my friends or I have been carried to a hatch in the past month, I can count on 3 hands the amount of time someone has been forced to bleed out and called us toxic(for equipping DS and BT because of a tunnel meta, mind you)
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Killers moaning about killing survivors 🤨
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There is a correlation there, though - killer MMR is solely based on kills, so you're going to get a higher MMR if you 4k than if you 3k and give hatch.
I just... eh. BMing the last survivor by bleeding them out is a problem, don't get me wrong, and it shouldn't exist or be enabled in any way, but I strongly disagree that it's more common or even anywhere close to as often as I see genuine hatch. And this would remove the good along with the bad, when the good outnumbers the bad. A mandatory finisher mori isn't the only solution for this - you could just as easily just let the last survivor bleed out on command when they don't feel they have any way to escape (which is a feature I've asked for for a while.)
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Then you just got a free DC, pretty sure you get more points for that anyways
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I have have conflicting feelings about this, but on balance I don't think I like it.
I do like carrying a surv to hatch sometimes, and tbh I mostly run moris to circumvent end game chaos/exit gate Decisive Strikes, so this might lead me to tunnel a little bit more early game to take those DS off the board.
Few things are as gratifying as having a just unhooked surv body block at the exit gate, thinking they can use their DS and make it out, only to mori them instead. I like having that control.
On the other hand, survs might be less likely to hang out at the exit to get that last tea bag or point in if they know getting downed=death. Less exit gate BM is definitely a good thing. And honestly, if you're the last surv in the game and you go down, you're already at the mercy of the killer, unless you land right on the exit.
I do think if this is going to happen, which would likely reduce the number of moris we see, BHVR needs to soup up the Moris, especially the older ones that are really lacking. If it's gonna be this cinematic finisher, it needs to be cool. Many already are, but most are pretty meh.
Though I am also assuming that the finishing mori can and will register as a sacrifice/hook, if we're being deprived of the choice.
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Yeah, but here's the thing: you can jump in a locker as a survivor to be grabbed and bypass the mori, then let the survivor wiggle out at the hatch. Sure, you wouldnt have the sluggy goodbye anymore, but its still a way to get around it.
Then there is also the fact that survivors could bleed themselves out in the moment that you place Exponential so they can pick themselves up.
To avoid BM and accidental sandbagging by uninformed suicide, this simply seems to be the best option.
I personally do hope that if you're slugged within 6 meters of an open hatch you can still be dropped without triggering the mori(hatch being closed while you're slugged instantly triggering the mori), and a 3 second pick-up cooldown(with the hook animation instantly ending the game, simply for 4 stacks), but as of now, I think it's neccesary to set new ground rules(pun intended), before tweaking the outcome. It's much better for the game to have an instant ending coded in as basekit, working and all, and then tweaking things, so that any bug around dropping someone near hatch would still instantly end the game, than it is to code in the potential outcomes, have the game bug on the dying state(assuming you're next to an open hatch for example, even though you're very far away) and still keep potential abuse. It would also give hackers less tools to prolong the game.
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