SWF hiding flashlights till the last second...

It should locked in at the 6 sec for everyone.

Both sides need to be locked in case someone complained about killer op again.

I dont see why you mentioned survivors complaining about killer perks when quoting me, if you read my post you would see I said each side should be able to use what the game makes available to them. Both sides complain about things they don't like and always will you just have to learn to ignore them and play how you wish .

No as its meant to be there for setup purposes and not everyone last minute switches. it never used to happen until dodging started becoming more of an issue. Its a symptom created by the players.

You cant have both locked in at once, survivor say at 30s and killer at 5s but to do this a lobby dodge penalty would still need put in place.

Since that would be argued against like you did about queue times when I first posted this you can see my reasoning why it has not been implemented already.

Players will constantly test the boundaries and try to exploit the game for their own advantages, if a gameplay element is constantly exploited and doesnt stand the test of time it becomes a questionable problem that could rightfully be addressed. An exploit shouldnt be carefree ignored because good willed players dont abuse it.

Now what i could accept as an arguement for your side is that the increased player satisfaction isnt worth the programming effort, even though the effort seems minor from an outside perspective.

What shouldnt be ignored is that this forum constantly gain threads which focus on this topic, people care about it. A solution would be welcomed no matter how exactly it would look like in the end.

Removing it won't help as that will upset the killer players as the system was designed so the killer could setup for the match.

Locking in survivors only will upset them as they may be dodged making there wait times longer.

It is why the only way to appease both is to create a lobby system where survivors are locked in first but if any of them leave once that happens a penalty is given for the next one.

That itself would anger players as there are also many topics on the dc penalty already. Some killer players would get upset as they feel they should be allowed to dodge and it could increase survivor wait time more. There are already threads about the dc penalty afterall.

Hmm, i can see that because this problem wasnt addressed for such a long time that a bigger change could upset the playerbase and the situation afterwards could lead atleast for a short while to as many complains as we have now. (Long terms these players might realize that it doesnt make a difference).

I agree that this is a reason to not change the visibility of items for the Killer side in lobby.

Now for the original intented way: Survivors get locked earlier. I think most of the playerbase is aware that this is an exploit and there wont be nearly as much complains if a change occurs here.

But to be able to argue further it requires now deeper knowledge into statistics which i dont have available, so i have to work with the mindsets and experiences of people presented on this forum as well as my own experiences.

Current Killer Reaction:

• 1.) I read that killers disconnect when all people switch to items last second. So Dodging these groups still exists even with a penality but how many do that and would it equal the possible dodging time of a new system or would a more fair system probably engage less dodging.
• 2.) Some others percieve it as 'toxic' (unfair / abused) and will do anything to give these survivors the most negative experience in this game. The exploit is currently a pool of toxicity which should be held in relation to the match making time. Because it influences the gameexperience and therefore the longeviety of a gaming session. So not only the Killer gets triggered by this but they spread the toxicity over to the survivors.
• 3.) Other Killers simply do not care enough to get offended by it, even if they wish the setup phase would work properly.

For group one, the people who feel overpowered by 4 itemholders in a swf but get forced into this match through the exploit they will go out of their way to disconnect, a change doesnt matter in relation to the matchmaking cuz they will keep dodging one way or another but their behaviour or the behaviour of new players engaging with this system will likely improve because it feels fair and has less trigger potential.

For group two this change does matter, they can mentally get ready for a certain kind of match and dont get suprised and triggered last second. If they feel really insecure they can dodge but therefore wont spread toxicitiy. I think the dodging rate might actually be lowered here with a new system because they cant blame the other side.

Group 3 seems to me as the largest group and they are uneffected by a change, they join the game no matter what and play it casually.

So because of the disconnecting issue i think the lobby dodging might be just as fast or maybe even improve in long terms since people can actually prepare loudoutwise and mentally to not be as triggered at the start of the game and play a match less enraged which could also improve the game experience for all players involved in the match.

Im not sure if there are statistics out there which could imply in which direction the matchmaking times would actually develop and prove one of our perspectives.

I think it could be worth testing for a duration of 1-2 days and see the results. I cant imagine a huge gap in the dodged lobbies.

The devs could at least make it so the items are locked on the latest 15 seconds, so the killer has a little to get a perk to counter it before the match starts.

Just go for slug and camp. Same thing when sabo squads happen.

You play this way and ill play like this. Adjust your play style.

The only counter to that is closing the game, which is really bad gamedesign.

So i highly agree, survs shouldn't be able to switch items, at least after the lobby countdown is locked for everyone.

Change item = lobby time reset.

Fixed it.

Interesting thanks for sharing this info. I want to ask now when you submitted the ticket and how you argued your standpoint.

With the sudden new found interest regarding less toxicity that BHVR mentioned in the anniversary stream it might be worth readressing meanwhile because it still is a qualitiy of life issue no matter if the company accept this as exploit or not.

Something along the lines of "Survivors switching to flashlights at the last second, wherein Killers don't have time to equip any counter-perks/add-ons."

BHVR literally does not care - Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

You can probably find their exact answer in my post history somewhere.

So face wall or three of keep your attention on footstep

Why isn't pickup cancel implemented?

Yep, and so is tunneling and facecamping. Which, a last second flashlight swap is the one and only time I do so. The way I see it, when a survivor does this (you as a generic term from now on) are telling me outright that you plan to not just use a flashlight if you get a chance, but you are planning to abuse the flashlight and you don't want me to know or else I'll bring Lightborn or Franklin's (No, actually I won't, but you don't know that.) If you had just let me know you had a flashlight, we'd be fine.