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Saboteur buff, to make scourge hooks more interactive.
With the new anti boon perk "shattered hope,", the new anti boon perk, it would be nice to see a perk for survivors to deal with the new "scourge hook" perks.
The reason for this is because currently there is no way for survivors to counter this mechanic. Its entirely down to chance whether or not the killer gets value from the perk. This is not good design, and with the introduction of anti-boon I would suggest scourge hook perk saboteur.
The buff is simple, saboteur work exactly the same as it does now, it just has a second affect. It allows survivors to see scourge hooks. The buff will allow for two things.
Firstly it will allow the survivors which hooks to prioritize when sabotaging. This way if the killer has the option of either a scourge hook or a normal hook, survivors can sabotage the scourge hook, thus still getting value from the perk, even if the killer still gets the hook.
Secondly it will allow survivors to counter scourge hooks to some degree, by positioning themselves closer to the normal hooks when they go down. This way survivors will be able to implement game knowledge to minimise the affect of the scourge hooks, rather then just being down to random chance. This can be used by skilled survivors to avoid giving the killer constant value from scourge hooks.
I doubt this buff would make saboteur meta, but it would be nice buff, and would make scourge hooks more interactive for the survivors.
Comments
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I'll say it isn't totally ridiculous.
But no.
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How come? I think it'd be a fair buff.
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Honestly, my only problem with saboteur is that you should be able to see hooks' auras right when a survivor is in the dying state.
I hate that timing when I'm around the survivor, ready to sabotage, but I'm trying so hard to find hooks. With my own eyes. While I have a perk that is supposed to do that, but doesn't, because I'm supposed to wait for the killer to carry that survivor.
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That is actually a good point, but I still think buffing it to be more interactive with scourge hooks would make it more viable and allow for better strategy with scourge hooks.
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I just don't want it to counter scourge hooks.
Ya know
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Okay, how come? As it stands there are no ways to counter any of those perks. So what reason would you be against this?
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Why would we need a counter to scourge hooks though? The fact that they are scourge hooks is already a self counter. Those perks are designed to be more powerful than perks that activate on any hook, but stop working outside scourge hooks, which force to pay attention not to take kills on those hooks and reduces the chances of activating them, if a sourge hook isn't nearby.
Post edited by Xord on6 -
I don't think Scourge Hooks need nerfs, but Saboteur does need some buffs
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Scourge Hooks aren't strong enough to warrant a perk to counter them. Plus it's not always feasible for a killer to make a scourge hook.
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I think it'd be a fine addition - just have the survivor see scourge hooks in a yellow aura and regular hooks with a red aura (meaning that the survivor would only see & know there are scourge hooks in the match once the killer is carrying a survivor)
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Something tells me you've never played killer during Events in which survivors could sabotage Event Hooks, it is a miserable experience and leads to what every survivor says they hate: Camping and slugging.
You want killers to hook you, it just makes for a better game experience. Making killers not want to hook leads back to camping and slugging, which survivors say they hate but will do everything to ensure it happens to them.
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I mean, hook sabotage is in the game. It's one thing to put the killer in a situation where they have no hooks and another to beat the killer to a hook and rob them of the pressure they're building - especially to counter one that's likely going out of their way to reach a scourge hook that may be further away than just prioritizing the nearest hook like killers usually do.
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Outside of CoH, it would be the same for boons, yet we still got a perk to counter them.
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Not everything needs a counter. Especially killers.
But nah, I simply just don't want it to.
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Considering scourge hooks are run just about every game. Yes, they do need a counter. Also adding counterplay is not a nerf.
Scourge hooks are stronger then most boons. So much stronger it's not comparable. Yet killers have a means to negate boons, but survivors have no means to even interact with Scourge hooks.
How does this make killers not want to hook? There are more then enough hooks for killers to use, disabling one hook, should not effect that. It sounds like you want to camp and slug and just want an excuse.
"Not everything should have a counter"
Could you imagine saying that for any tool a survivor has. An entire mechanic should have not even the ability to engage with it.
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Scourge Hooks are already RNG because of spawns making them unreliable to begin with. Just seeing videos of how bad Scourge Hooks spawns can be in videos should be telling that they are already too unreliable to need an external counter.
Plus Scourge Hooks are permanently destroyed when a survivor is sacrificed on one of them making them already permanently destroyable. For boons without Shattered Hope they can not be permanently destroyed.
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If they could make it so that Sabotuer only goes on cooldown after a FULL sabo then I'd be happy.
I swear the amount of times I accidentally touch a hook for half a second only to see it enter that long cd is infuriating.
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Scourge Hooks already have an in-built counter, it's called Scourge Hooks.
There's only 4 of them, and they spawn randomly across the Map.
Survivors could just remember which Hook the Killer placed a Survivor on to counter Scourge Hooks
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ok let's say it's the best case scenario
A 4 man swf. Who can provide instant information to their teammates. And they perfectly memorise the position of each scourge hook. And the killer isn't running starstruck, or mad grit to deal with the body blocking/ sabo. And they themselves are running either sabotour or a tool box. And they are 100% of the time are in position to deal with the scourge hook. And they actually pull it off each time. And the killer, after downing each survivor will only be able to reach one scourge hook per carry. All of this. The chance of this is so incredibly small that, let's be serious, will never happen.
The killer should get, at lest one use of each scourge hook. Which is 25% of its maximum value. And survivors have no ability to use game knowledge for skill to prevent this. Now they can, its technically possible to sabo a scourge hook, without knowing, but then its down to luck, not skill. All this buff will do, is give survivors the ability to implement skill, to outplay a killer. Why is it when a killer gets a perk that completely negates an entire mechanic to survivors, which they already have for just about every other strategy, this is fine, fair and balanced. But the idea of survivors, not even negating, minimising the effects of a killer mechanic, this is an issue.
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I don't think SH is something that needs to be countered. PR is a stronger surge on hook, maybe if paired with DMS may be bit annoying, but in high mmr where killers get 3 hooks per game it's not a big deal. Floods of rage I barely see anyone using and Gift of Pain is trash dead perk. So... that's it. Pain Resonance is a nice comfort perk to not have to kick gens 24/7, Floods of Rage will never be used a lot as BBQ exists with farm side of a perk and granted aura reading and gift of pain is just superweak perk not worth running.
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The difference between shattered hope and scourge hooks is that there aren't four killers roaming around killing boons.
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