OK so you want to nerf DH.
Comments
-
I'm sorry, but you apparently have a problem remembering what you said a couple moments ago so:
give you the ability to self care at the exact same speed of self care
You said it give you the ability to heal yourself at the EXACT same speed as Self-Care, which is wrong.
Here's the definition of exact:
CoH doesn't heal you precisely as fast as Self-Care, it heals you faster.
Please, I beg you, learn what you're talking about... before talking about it, unless you want to be ignored by pretty much everyone that wants to have a serious discussion, like a Sluzzy knock-off
3 -
Then I shouldn't know anything about the game other than pressing M1 to hit Survivors and holding M1 to do Generators, I only have 1k lmao
1 -
Ah I see, I was completely confused about what your reply was to me, but apparently I did say "give you the ability to self care at the exact same speed of self care", and that's not what I wanted to say, my point was: I prefer self care, because considering all the setup, it's pretty much the exact same speed or even faster compared to CoH. So yes, that one thing is wrong.
Again, my point stands, that I personally find CoH is garbage outside a coordinated group and I very much prefer Self Care (better in dire situations and overall)
0 -
100%.
They also aren't very good. You only get a Scourge Hook every 2-3 downs (assuming you're not facing a toolbox Saboteur squad), and while the 15% is nice, it isn't enough to justify the perk slot except in specialized builds, and 45 seconds of slowdown isn't that much, especially since good survivors will just stop working on gens for a few seconds every time you down someone after they see it for the first time, and there are far better perks that give you almost as much slowdown for free and even more uncounterable (Deadlock).
I only use Pain Resonance as an extremely risky information replacement for BBQ on my Call of Brine/Pop Sadako builds. If you hear a scream, you know that survivor will tap the gen to stop the regression before running, and you now have that 15%, plus Pop's 25%, plus Brine's free 200% regression that warns you if a survivor is working on the gen again. That can be really nasty. The downside, of course, is that you don't get a Scourge Hook every time, and if hook placements are bad and survivors are fast, you don't get anything out of it. (And then I put Dragon's Grip, Deadlock, or Eruption on top of it. I find that survivors expect Merciless on Sadako, so I don't run it on her.)
But the PR/DMS combo is overrated. And it's not completely uncounterable. It's actually very easy to counter after your first screwup.
0 -
See? It wasn't so hard to admit your mistake.
As for Self-Care being better than CoH, yeah no.
A good CoH placement will always be better than Self-Care
2 -
Not for me, no. I have to carry the randoms most of the time, and if I bring CoH, I simply don't have the time to setup the boon, heal and go unhook. Self Care is just so much better. If I'm in a group with competent people, then sure.
0 -
Injured to clear up the "no resitrictions"
it also makes almost no distance unlike other exhaustion, so that activation is fine. 99ed sprint burst is so much worse than this
0 -
Where is the uncounterable survivor perk that halts the killer for 45 seconds for finishing a gen?
0 -
I think it's called Repressed Alliance
3 -
Edit: The discrepancy I was pointing out was covered in an earlier post that I missed. Mea culpa.
0 -
Nah, just remove Dead Hard. No need for other changes to account for that.
0 -
if they announce a dh rework im gonna come back and post a huge smiley face
0 -
DH is currently being employed by more players than pre-nerf DS.
1 -
you say that as if killers aren't already faster than survivors.
0 -
Killers have to be faster than survivors. It's a 1v4; not a 1v1.
1 -
Sigh. When you have to put words in someone else's mouth, it generally means that you have no response to what they were actually saying.
What 'facts'? You've been factually wrong since the start of this lot.
I used a general consensus, because I know how this dance goes. I'll say 'oh, Otz said that' and you'll respond with 'oh, Otz isn't a good player because x y z' and it becomes a pissing match. But the general consensus is there - Tru3, Otz, Dowsey and Tofu have all opined that CoH is a bleeding edge top tier perk - amazing for solos, broken in SWFs.
My point is that time doesn't always mean you are correct. As you so...perfectly demonstrate here, sometimes all it means is that you've been wrong for longer.
I explained why CoH is strong, via simple common sense. But I'll do it again, since you didn't bother responding last time (and skipped right to the 'I've played for 5k hours so I'm right' dodge).
- CoH gives a souped up self-care to the entire team, for the price of a single slot.
- CoH takes a bit longer initially, but even a 1k hour noob like myself can locate a totem fairly fast and once it's up, it's extremely powerful.
- Plenty of maps have semi-guaranteed totem spawns in a spot where CoH can blanket almost the entire map, and be a massive time commitment to snuff. The top of IWOM is the easiest example. Remember, CoH is a cylinder, meaning that on smaller maps with a lot of verticality it's exponentially more powerful.
- CoH stacks with other healing perks so well that, with a good medkit, you can heal someone mid chase.
There.
Well done. You beat the hell out of that strawman.
1 -
About sums it up.
0 -
So...by 'facts' - you actually mean 'my subjective experiences'.
I suspected we were using that word differently.
2 -
So your opinions are "facts" and mine are "subjective experiences"
Damn, I was supposed to be the one with an inflated ego.
0 -
In this case? Yes.
Because I can defend my opinions with common sense and numbers. You can only resort to 'I've played this game a lot, and I think you're wrong'.
Note how everyone has been telling you why you are incorrect on all of this?
While the majority isn't always right, when the overwhelming majority disagrees with you - you damned well better be able to give stronger arguments than 'because I say so'.
2 -
Ah yes, I'm the only person who views DH as a problematic perk. You got me, bro. Also I was always under the impression that I have never touched Nurse in my entire life, looks like I was wrong.
0 -
"Everyone", I'll tell you who everyone is: 3 people that belong to the same extremely biased group of "nurse is perfect", "killers should insta down teleport and shoot stars off their hands" and "100% of the player base is sweaty 10k hours SWF".
My care about what that specific group of people, who demonstrate 0 objectivity says, is zero.
When you say something I find reasonable, I will say so. I have no problems addressing when something is correct. So far you simply haven't.
0 -
Find me one example of anyone you're talking about saying that.
I'm serious.
Go on, I'll wait.
But no, once again you're falling back on the 'everyone but me is massively biased, this is all a giant conspiracy of killer mains' ridiculousness.
2 -
-
...No, that's not what you said.
You said 'Nurse is perfect', and claimed that the people disagreeing with you believed that (as well as claiming they want to instantly win every game).
SuzuKR isn't saying anything like that. They are saying that Nurse's basekit is perfectly fine, but her addons create problems. I actually agree with this.
1 -
And I don't agree with it. You say Nurse is perfect, and I say she's the most unfair and broken killer in the game.
You say CoH is better than Self Care, and I say it's not.
Though you said your opinions are facts, I'm afraid I'll continue being against those facts.
0 -
I mean, you still have an inflated ego, with your constant reposts of your steam profile showcasing you're "amazing" amount of hours.
And yes, your opinion on Self-Care being better than CoH is made up of subjective experiences, not factual data
1 -
You do realise there isn't factual data that proves CoH is better right? You can show me date of usage, or quote your friends saying it's better. That's it. The fact of the matter is, which perk is stronger is highly situational, I can show you scenarios where CoH is better, and where Self Care is better.
For me, and the kind of matches I get, Self Care is the superior choice. Do you want to use CoH? go ahead! I mean. I honestly don't care what perks you use buddy.
Also, since you seem to like my profile a lot, and you constantly bring it up, here you go again: https://steamcommunity.com/id/Sumnox/
I'm waiting for the person whose opinions are facts, to come to your aid very shortly, perhaps we should all go to discord at some point and discuss this better, since we keep derailing the thread that is about Deadhard, by the way.
Post edited by Rizzo on0 -
-
Math disagrees with you opinion heavily.
Please tell me, in which world is a 32 second heal better than a ~24.3 second heal?
Post edited by Rizzo on1 -
Your reading comprehension, again, needs some elementary school lessons.
"She's in a spot of perfect design basekit"
Perfect - design
Reading comprehension.
By the way, you can have my profile again because I know you're in love with it.
1 -
And we're back to saying you can find a totem, bless it, and heal in 24,3 seconds (it went up from 23 seconds)
0 -
Yes, base-kit, not including Add-Ons, which is correct.
A good Nurse, without Add-Ons, has an equal chance at winning against equally skilled Survivors
0 -
And we're back to you taking the time it takes to bless a Totem into the healing process, as if you're only blessing a Totem when you need the heals, which tells me you have no idea how to even use the Perk, and are probably the type of Survivor to Self-Care in a corner.
EDIT:
Blessing takes 14, and getting to the Totem after getting hit takes about 2-4 seconds, so it's better than Self-Care, as it takes around 24.3 seconds
I never said I can heal in exactly 23 seconds, I said the heal takes around 24.3 seconds, so you might want to check your eyes, and memory aswell
0 -
But she doesn't. Because her very "perfect design" according to you, goes against every mechanic and her drawbacks are not nearly enough to justify her powers.
0 -
As far as I know you don't even have the game installed. You produced the most ridiculous post I have ever read:
ThatOneDemoPlayer Posts: 3,886
A normal chase, without Dead Hard lasts about 45 seconds, that's 56.25% worth of Generator time. If the Survivor wiggles off, the Killer has to waste about 15-30 seconds again, depending on if the Survivor plays well or not. That's, 1 minute or more, which is 75% of a Generator. If wiggling off only requires 1 extra Survivor, that's 2 Generators about to pop.
If wiggling off required 2 Survivors, then only a single Generator would've been about to pop, which would be more fair, as when 2 or more Survivors decide to sabotage Hooks and take hits, the Killer can't do anything about it other than dropping the Survivor, which will lead to a quick pick up later on
I mean, someone who says this can't even own the game.
0 -
Base-kit Nurse has enough drawbacks to where she can't win against equally skilled Survivors if she doesn't play well.
Her base-kit Fatigue lasts long enough to where Survivors can get a lot of distance off of 1 miss, ShiftW is a pain against her, playing unpredictably will mess a Nurse up and losing LOS will mess her up aswell
1 -
Do you even understand words when you see them? Why do you keep arguing with yourself about stuff you made up? For the millionth time, I'm starting to worry about you, it depends on the situation.
If CoH is already placed or there's several of them set up, then chances are the perk might be better (you still have to reposition as well)
If CoH isn't placed because you're the only one who can place it and it's not up, or it's been snuffed, or any other reason, and you need to quickly heal to make a save or run for a gate, then Self Care is going to be better.
I'm just baffled at how difficult this is to understand for you. I might be right after all and you just don't own the game LOL
By the way, have my profile again: https://steamcommunity.com/id/Sumnox/
0 -
Nurse? Nurse isn't that obnoxious without some of her stronger addons. She just requires you to play a touch differently. I'd rather face a Nurse than a facecamping Bubba or a TSP Myers any day of the week.
Regardless, this isn't about Nurse. This is about you asserting that the people disagreeing with you believe something that they don't.
Well, duh. There isn't data on perks versus win rates that we have access to. Which is where common sense and consensus comes into play.
And...what? Dude, you've been the one sidetracking this conversation from the beginning. You don't get to crap on the floor and then complain about the smell.
Yes, that's what an opinion means. But you can have a good opinion (one supported by both the opinions of experts and common sense argument) and a bad opinion (one supported by neither of these things - see again: Flat Earthers).
Finally, you've got this weird trend of asking people to shift venues - it really does read as an attempt to get people to reveal personal information, and comes over rather sus.
Yes, we've seen your profile. I've already explained that hours played isn't a good metric of anything - because it's possible (note: probable) that this just means you've been wrong for a long time.
Again - it's amazing that someone with that many hours logged doesn't understand what makes CoH strong.
A badly placed CoH can be easily snuffed.
A well placed CoH is a lose/lose for the killer, as snuffing it becomes a huge time investment. RPD library, the top of the IWOM structure, the second floor of Eyrie and some spots on Midwich are good examples of this.
It's also interesting how you are the only one resorting to ad-homming, strawmanning and started off with a lovely bit of whataboutism - which generally suggests that you don't actually have that much faith in your own positions.
Regardless, this has been a fun game of ye olde Fallacy Bingo, but it's getting boring now.
1 -
You don't like numbers?
Also keep in mind those numbers are a bit low, 45 seconds for a chase is a bit of an understatement and is based on a Survivor playing unsafe, and only then playing safely, and the second chase is a big understatement, as it only includes the amount of time it takes to chase the wiggled off Survivor, if other Survivors didn't try to take a hit for them, which usually isn't the case and wiggled off Survivors get hits taken for them pretty often, extending that chase time even more
1 -
Idk, but killers don't do gens.
0 -
its not a 1v4 its a 1v1v1v1v1 due to mmr.
0 -
Then that's an issue for the survivors. It sucks to have selfish teammates but the game can't be balanced predicated on the assumption no group will work together especially when so many do.
0 -
Don't bother with people like them.
(From experience) They will create the most specific scenario (because they think there is only one) in which something they deem as "too strong" will fit their opinion. In other words, it's never "The generator is about to pop, but I was able to get there in time and they were in a dead zone so DH didn't do anything for them". You will never hear them utter those words in these forums.
Even though we know literally EVERY, not one, not two, but EVERY exhaustion perk is able to produce x amount of seconds extended chase time. With some SB, Lithe, BL being able to get the killer off of you, period. Which basically means that DH is right there with those.
You would think for someone who supposedly cares about numbers and values they would have the ability to recognize this as well.
1 -
Yeah, I realised too late they were only trolling. My bad. I shouldn't have engaged for as long as I did. Complete waste of time. Appreciate it nonetheless mate!
1 -
I absolutely cannot stand people who use this as a non-argument.
You're nerfing x? Then you have to nerf y. x is not balanced? Well, you can't nerf it because y exists.
Here's an idea: If you're going to make an argument to nerf something, make an argument for it or against it, rather than some nonsensical blanket statement. Using one perk being nerfed as your justification for nerfing killers is the dumbest thing I've read here in long time.
All this would just be an excuse to nerf stronger killers that already are not that drastically impacted by DH in the first place, but rather using it as an excuse. If anything DH is only totally unfair against the non-top tier killers, aka the majority of them. Maybe we should nerf those M1 killers instead, seeing as it makes it easier for them in chases, right? This is the logic we're applying, no?
1 -
HA! no look the whole point of anti loop and powers like nurse and blight is to give the killers side a fighting chance as someone already pointed out and as ill add to that even players without dead hard can still win against these killers with a little tool that i also want nerfed the i cant loop for ######### and there for dont have skill so i must suck the life out of any and all killers who dare to think about having fun by bumming all at once also known to us all as genrush but really my point is survivors already have it to easy and its time killers get the end of the stick and survivors need to face up to losing op meta trash this being deadhard so with that being the case by removing or destroying the perk it will not only bring up the pace and ease of a mid tier killer in chase but also force braindead and unskilled survivors to finally start using skill to loop and try to make less mistakes because they dont have theyre crutchy walking stick to save them anymore
0 -
DH is a position that you live close to the server, the more powerful the skills you hate, because you are next to the main server host, and many of them are killed by the killer. When they live closer to the server, they can hold the DH with the invincible to escape this attack, and because the residence is closer to the server, it becomes a survivor who is closer to the server. Press DH to abuse the invincible hiding attack of 0.5 seconds. DH's skill is considered to be excessively used by survivors, and almost every game can be seen. But for this excessive abuse skill, it is necessary to be more than half of the killer requirements of NERF, and it will be too much, and the official has already had many killers before. The fourth of the box interaction of the hood must be unlocked, and the accessories that increase the number of unlocking boxes are useless.
0 -
People still think spirit is strong after her unjustified nerfs,,she is borderline mediocre without MDR + majority of people run iron will + you can hear where she comes from,,Interesting views
0
