OK so you want to nerf DH.
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In tournaments, that's not true. Even low tier killers have been show to be able to compete in tournaments. Scott Jund made several videos shows tournaments where low tier killers were getting 2k/2e on average.
With DBD, you can't wait and see. Look at the key "rework" that was suppose to happen after the hatch rework, yet survivors still have 11 useless items in their bloodweb because no rework ever happened.
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Yes, those tournaments you're talking about generally have some pretty hefty restrictions on how powerful the SWF can make themselves. Some only allow 1 medkit. Others don't allow duplicate perks.
I'm talking about the no-holds barred tournaments. Otz talks about this a fair bit.
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Are you talking about the Japanese tournament? The one where the Pig player crouched the entire Trial against bad Survivors?
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Can you mention those "very overpowered perks that make the rest pale in comparison" putting aside Deadhard, that you very evidently seem to think guarantees a win when you slot it?
But here's how your bias comes in strong. It can also be done the other way around. Let's finally fix Nurse and Blight, and once the dust settles we can look at Deadhard and ask, is this perk necessary anymore? What's the state of solo queue? Are we doing anything to make it a fair experience after 6 years? And now, how is killer looking?
There is only 1 huge universal issue: Survive With Friends. It tips the balance out of control for everyone, it makes certain killers hard to play, and it makes certain playstyles mandatory. But then let's apply that to the whole playerbase.
You are punishing 99% of players for what a 1% can achieve (very sweaty tryhard 4 man premade) thus making it a miserable experience for 99% of the players of your game.
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Guarantees a win? No, don't put words in my mouth.
But sure. CoH immediately comes to mind.
You can nerf Nurse and Blight, but that's a separate issue. This game isn't balanced around Nurse and Blight, and even at higher MMRs, you aren't literally seeing only these two killers. DH on the other hand is omnipresent from intermediate MMR to the highest MMR.
Yes, SWF is a problem and adding it made balancing far more difficult, but you aren't going to get rid of SWF, so we need to live with it.
You don't need to be in the top 1% of players for SWF to be a problem. BHVR have stated before that - even looking at the game as a whole - SWF makes a huge difference in escape rates, and I can attest that when I play killers, even a group of intermediate survivors are much scarier in a SWF than they would be alone.
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Ah yes, CoH. That perk that takes 14 seconds to bless a totem, once you do find one, to then give you the ability to self care at the exact same speed of self care (only that self care has no pre-requisites) unless it's snuffed of course. That one perk that will be absolutely worthless in actual dire situations (2 people dead, 1 on hook, you're injured and need to heal, good luck finding a totem, blessing it, by the time it's blessed the person is already dead and obviously, the killer will have already found you) that totem that only truly shines now when multiple versions of them are being used by coordinated teams. Oh, right, SWF they call it.
Damn, it all seems to go back to SWF. Yes, yes, very overpowered perk indeed. I see it in my solo queue plays, maybe once every 20 matches. If that's the overpowered perk I can count on, I better only count on Deadhard then and keep my Self Care.
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It’s far more important however to address the perk because although it is fair against one killer it absolutely kills a majority of the roster
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Yeah I agree. DH is necessary against certain killers.
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The zombies are the map pressure. Sometimes.
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You know, you claim to have played this game for a long time, but you just completely missed the point of CoH, and why this perk is so damn strong.
- It gives self care to the entire team, for the price of one slot.
- Even post nerf, when combined with a decent medkit, it can allow you to heal ridiculously fast as a duo. I'd have to dig up the video, but there's one of Otz and his mate healing *mid chase*.
- When sited correctly (RPD library, IWOM tower, Eyrie second floor etc.) it can cover most of the map and be such a huge time commitment to snuff that you come out ahead of the game. Remember, 14 seconds for one survivor is basically equivalent to 14x4 seconds for the killer.
- It's extremely good in solo queue.
- You generally don't see multiple CoH's in SWFs - one is more than sufficient.
I'm not sure what MMR you are playing at, but I see it in maybe 50% of my games as killer, and I generally don't bring it myself as survivor - because there's a better than even chance that someone else will. I always ask in pregame (ditto Kindred).
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You know, I think we should play SWF together. You seem to live in a wonderful alternative reality, and I think your reality is better than mine. If you assume my MMR is ridiculously low and that's why I get potatoes, let me just agree with you, with the exception that every single killer I get is a sweatlord with around 4-6k hours. It must be me that, somehow my MMR gets me survivor potatoes with sweatlord killers.
CoH is good in a team that knows how to make use of it. Otherwise , it is garbage .
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CoH is garbage.
Yeah, I think we might indeed live in very different realities...
And no, you aren't literally facing 4-6k hour killers every match - because not even the highest MMR streamers face 4-6k hour players every match. There really aren't all that many players like that.
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CoH is garbage
Care to link me your steam profile? I'm very curious about your overall stats especially as survivor etc.
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If the winrates of some killers spike after DH getting nerfed then they can get looked at as well. It's not really fair for those who play trapper, pig, clown etc to have to face a perk they're not really equipped to deal with because nurse exists.
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Hahaha, no. Why would I give you the chance to take a widdle against my Steam wall? And...what do you think that would show you, anyway?
You saying that 'CoH is garbage' is contradicting some of the best, most prolific players in the world, who still rate it as one of the most powerful survivor perks in the game. Now - yes - this is partially an AFA, but my point stands.
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I don't need to quote anybody else, when I am my own best judge, for my experience as solo survivor in what I can assume is high mmr after roughly 5k hours. The "mommy says..." argument is not necessarily something I need.
Well, I like facts presented. When I talk to someone who tries to lecture others on this and that, and seems to think they're some sort of authority "I declare this is X, this is Y", "Mommy says this is X, Y, Z", I wonder, okay this person must have A LOT of experience. That's why I asked for a bit of proof.
You don't seem to be willing to present any, I must assume because it's not going to make you look good. That's fine, I already told you how I view it.
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Fortunately, reality is not dependent on your belief.
I'm not going to give you additional access to my personal details and spaces, and you asking for this is honestly pretty sus.
When the overwhelming consensus among people who play this game for a living is the complete opposite of what you are asserting, Ockham's Razor dictates that you are probably wrong. Even myself as a lowly 1k-ish hour player can tell you, mechanically, why CoH isn't 'garbage'.
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So the knowledge doesn't come from you, comes from Mommy. In this case Mommy being a "very good" streamer who "plays this for a living". Is there an official entity that gathered and released all this information? Example, "All these Mommies and Daddies, universally take THIS stance on this issue" Source?
This is my profile. I don't have anything to hide, and I don't need external validation when I have more than enough experience in this game to know what I'm talking about.
Cheers.
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No, the knowledge comes from a general consensus of people who both play and analyze this game, in public, for a living. You can be as snarky as you like, that doesn't change the fact that you are placing your own subjective (and extremely biased) opinion over this.
It's the 'Flat Earther' syndrome at it's finest.
Again, I don't care about how many hours you have played - because:
A. For all I know, 4,500 of those hours were spent staring at the main menu screen, or alt-tabbed out watching Avril Lavigne videos.
B. Your opinion both contradicts common sense and the opinion of other, more experienced players who play this game at a semi-professional level and
C. Your argument amounts to 'this things I believe, trust me, I play this game for long time, ignore other people who play it for longer and probably have more robust, more balanced take'.
Yeah, no.
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Your math is off, CoH takes 21.3 seconds, not 32 like Self-Care.
Please continue using Self-Care, I love free slowdown
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My issue with this idea is, to my understanding, the invincibility is the premise of the perk, not the distance.
Plus the distance seems to be the bigger issue. It makes the perk usable for situations in which it was not intended.
That's why I'm generally in the camp of reducing or removing the Dead Hard for distance aspect so it can't be used for things like making that last little bit of distance or going over armed bear traps.
Alternatively, allowing the distance if, and only if, you actually do dodge a hit with hit. Basically, assuming it's possible to do, if the game acknowledges that you would have been hit had you not used Dead Hard, then you get the distance.
Making the perk something that requires skill to use would seem the best way to remove its biggest issues.
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The devs are the ones who want to change deadhard.
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You do know that if you crouch behind objects his tentacle won’t hit you and it only has a range of 5 meters in tier 1 and 6 meters in tier 3 which isn’t long and if you mind game right and just get familiar with tentacle drag he’s very beatable, especially with his inconsistent zombie pressure, Nurse and Blight can be too much if they’re running like Torn Bookmark or Alchemist Ring or Nurse is on Midwich or Blight on Shelter woods but that’s map and add-on issues not the killers basekit.
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I am Nemesis main and most times my zombies are just useless. On some maps, they are stucking around. I have so less value from them.
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I surely didn't expect a user to be so condescending on the forums, brag about their immense knowledge, then insta-goof on literally one of the only two 'hot topic' perks (1 in 20 matches but meta?) found in recent discussions.
You nuked this user, haha.
This topic was gold.
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Even if the invulnerability was the original purpose of the perk doesn't really matter though since we're talking about significantly changing it anyway.
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Well, since you gave up on your own judgement, because you don't think your own experience is valid enough (you say you have barely 1k) next time just quote the person you're talking in the name of, I guess. I will then respond to what -they- have to say.
I do care about how many hours I have played, and no, I don't spend thousand of hours looking at the menu. You can actually check if someone AFK farmed hours, just introducing their profile in some of the DBD stats tracker. Many hours, with progress that doesn't match, probably afk yeah. Many hours with matching stats, there you have it.
You're trying really hard to deflect -facts- while simultaneously using "she said he said" as science. It just doesn't make you look good. Also, the fact you hide your profile is telling.
But there is one thing I am tired about. I am tired about people who don't play, or didn't play even half of what I did, trying to tell me how X or Y works. I will take advice or listen to people who prove they know how things work. Otherwise, play more and then come back to me.
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the difference is sprint burst doesn't make you invincible for pressing a button, and it requires you to either 99 or do a gen to use it
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You take 21 seconds to find a totem, bless it, and fully heal? Can you show me a clip of this? My maths seem to be -really- off
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Yes, your math is off. Healing with CoH takes 21.3 seconds.
Blessing takes 14, and getting to the Totem after getting hit takes about 2-4 seconds, so it's better than Self-Care, as it takes around 24.3 seconds, if you know how to place it properly that is, which based on your posts, I doubt
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True but we're not necessarily talking about changing it into a whole other perk, either. Unless I'm mistaken, that drastic a change is very rare. Rare enough I can't think of any examples offhand, anyway.
Even when NOED went from normal perk to Hex, it retained its nature as an endgame power-up.
Whatever is done to Dead Hard it's more likely than not still going to remain a perk that lets you evade a hit that would otherwise down you.
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Use Sprint Burst, then. It's not a free, infinite health state that is usable on every build in every situation.
If you would be just as happy with Sprint Burst taking its place, then, cool, change Dead Hard to something else entirely, and we'll call it good.
As an M1 killer main, how "fair" is it that survivors get to prolong the chase for an extra 20-60 seconds every single time I manage to catch up to them and that they get a free second chance every single time they screw up their timing? Maybe Dead Hard could be used to block damage from M2 attacks, but no effect on M1 attacks and no distance/speed gain.
You know what actually would be a fair DH nerf? Keep it the way it is, but give killers a generic perk that causes the Exhausted status effect for 60/75/90 seconds after being injured. We'd have to waste a perk slot, but there would be a hard counter to an overpowered and infinitely abusable perk, and people would only run it as much as they see four Dead Hards every other match. Lightborn for Dead Hard.
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Big perk changes are uncommon but they do happen.
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But not to the extent of changing the perk at its most basic level, is my point.
Your definition of "fair nerf" looks more like "hoping to completely negate the existence of the perk" (Overcome, too, come to that)
A perk like that would be better at just a few seconds, like Fearmonger. If they manage to get that down mid-chase and then use Dead Hard, you at least can't deny that you were outplayed.
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So you take 21 seconds to find a totem, bless it, and fully heal. Can I see a clip of this?
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So true
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... the math is up there. If you don't like numbers, don't start talking about numbers?
If you really want to add the time it takes to, it's probably 5-10 seconds if you know Totem spawns, so setting it up is a net loss on Self-Care, the actual heal (the point of the Perk) is a huge gain
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I'm just asking because, I was talking about in my post about time it takes to find + time to bless + healing.
And your reply to that was:
So, you pretty much replied to something you made up? I wasn't talking about time it takes healing once it's all set up, I'm talking about the whole thing from scratch versus Self Care.
So, again, you just decided to reply to something you made up?
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True game knowledge only unlocks at 5000h, friendo.
*inserts unsolicited profile link*
Don't mind me if I disregard everything you say, despite the fact that it meshes with community consensus, streamers, previous dev comments/actions on the perk, etc.
I'll just be here trying to sound superior.
BTW, did you see my hours?
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give you the ability to self care at the exact same speed of self care
Are you mad I disproved your false statement or what? You yourself said CoH gives you the ability to heal at the exact same speed as Self-Care, which is false, straight up false and incorrect
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My idea of a "fair nerf" is "I can waste a perk slot to counter a perk that denies me multiple downs every game and is so OP that more than 50% of survivors pick it". Yeah, that's fair.
If survivors want to keep it the way it is (and this seems to be common consensus among them), then it shouldn't be without risk. And if killers want to counter it, it doesn't have to be free. It'd be even riskier to run than Lightborn since you can't see survivor perks in the lobby, making it a gambling mini-game between killers and survivors. Run Dead Hard and you might get free escapes all game, or you might have wasted a perk slot, and vice-versa for killers.
It would remain useful. Ironically, it would be more useful the less survivors spam it, but the counter perk still wouldn't be run in most or all games, at least not after the first few weeks.
And it wouldn't be free for killers to negate. It would cost a perk slot, which is far more than one should have to waste to get rid of multiple free hits every game.
My idea could be reworked to exclude other perks somehow. The perk could also be fixed by "When you've been outside of a chase in the injured state for 15/12/10 seconds, Dead Hard activates" and "after activation, Dead Hard deactivates", but survivors seem to want the possibility of infinite free second chances to stay viable.
Yes, the Lightborn formula is perfect. Lightborn directly negates an entire class of survivor item and multiple perks with no cooldown or limitation, and it works entirely as intended. It doesn't generally see play outside of lobbies where four people are all running flashlights (and some killers still swear that flashlights are so easy to deal with that they'll never run Lightborn, just as some killers would with an anti-DH perk).
If you as a Doctor main aren't having trouble with DH, then maybe you would just be one of those killers who doesn't run the perk. Mikey needs it.
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No, I did in fact not check the hours, as I don't need to, their (factually incorrect) opinions tell me all I need to know about how good they are at the game
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I particularly like equating DH to the other exhaustion perks, as if they are all equal. The thing about SB is that you have to sit on it until the right moment. If you want to save it for that right moment, you can't run, or you have to nurse that 99%, which is not optimal in chase. Most of the time, you can see that SB coming from a mile away. Lithe you can only use if you fast vault. BL you have to find a sufficient drop. Etc, etc. There are offsets and requirements that keep them from being OP; they are limited in application, and I have ZERO issue with any of them.
DH you can use at any point to bail you out of being downed, often (usually) after you've just been badly outplayed. It's an on demand mistake eraser. In golf, it'd be a mulligan. Imagine being a survivor, beating the killer to a pallet or vault, dropping it/vaulting, only to have the killer hit a button and instantly jump to your side and hit you. DH (especially for distance) is that level of BS.
People can create all the false equivalencies to other perks they want to justify it, but DH stands alone on its own tier as a survivor perk. It's OP.
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Yes, they are uncounterable. But, they have to be earned by doing what you're supposed to do, which is hook survivors.
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You are the one claiming you can find a totem, bless it and heal in 21 seconds. You must be hacking. What you replied to, I do not know since you made it up.
Well, you sound upset that I link my profile. Is it the content that upsets you, or just the fact that I did?
here's my profile again, then : https://steamcommunity.com/id/Sumnox/
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Don't put words in my mouth, I never said I can find, bless and heal in 21 seconds.
I'm sorry you're displeased that you've been proven false and that you're not some all-knowing God at Dead By Daylight, but don't blame me for your mistakes and lack of knowledge
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if they nerf dh get rid of bloodlust simple killers have an advantage of being faster why shouldn't you get a chance to get some distance in a chase.
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Your loss.
You'd know why they are wrong - Only 4000h.
You think you can learn stuff like how heal speeds work, perk strats, and pick rates after only 203 days of in-game playtime (at flat 4k)?
The human mind can't even begin to fathom these concepts pre-5000k.
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... But that's my point then. You can't heal in 21 seconds, so the comparison to self care I made and your reply to it, answers what specifically? Your reading comprehension needs some serious work, just like your hours on this game buddy.
You can have my profile again as a bonus.
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You say that as if Dead Hard is the only means Survivors have to get a chance to get some distance in a chase.
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