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Ghostface's Marking Needs a Rework
Ghostface is a killer that suffers greatly when going up against teams for two main reasons:
- Survivors hit with a basic attack loss all marking progress
- The GF can't 99 another survivor if a survivor who has already been 99'd is in view
The first problem means that if a ghost face can't use his power, like if he is carrying someone, you can take a hit to remove and stalking progress he has on you. The solution here is just to reduce the amount of stalk lost when you hit someone.
The second problem is the more complicated one. There is nothing like having an entire early game fall apart because a survivor you 99'd happened to walk into frame for second getting themselves exposed when you can't take advantage of it and also revealing to the rest of the team which killer they are facing.
A solution here is to make it so that instead of a survivor being exposed when they are fully marked, the GF instead press a button to expose any survivor he is currently looking at if they are fully marked.
This would be a slight buff to his kit, but I don't think it would change the experience of playing against him, it would just playing as him less painful at times.
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- Then dont hit them, or hit them if you think if you can re-stalk them.
- Then Finish the stalk on one and 99 the next.
Ghostface is pretty mid tier at 54% killrate, idk if that demands a rework.
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I will admit that first one is something that you can play around but the second one is not something you can just do. Exposing a survivor also reveals that survivor is exposed for everyone, so a survivor who is next to them who is paying attention will realize that they are also being stalked and then be able to run away.
Ghostface's kill rate is mostly due to the fact that he is rather difficult to play against if you don't understand his mechanics. If you do understand his mechanics, he is actually quite weak. He is not terrible like Trapper or Pig, but he is on the lower side of the tier list. Besides, I don't think kill rate is the best indicator of someone strength because it does not tell you how they played the game. Did they get 10 hooks or did they just camp two people two death? Kill Rate is not something than can just be ignored, but it is also something that should not be considered the ultimate source of should something get reworked.
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Ghostface's kill rate is mostly due to the fact that he is rather difficult to play against if you don't understand his mechanics.
Source? Cause I doubt this.
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For starters, the revealing mechanic, one of the key ways to counter ghost face, has some weird gimmicks to it that can throw off even an experienced survivor.
His ability is also more effective against players who are reliant upon the terror radius and the Killer's Red Light.
Put simply, he is a noob stomper. His stealth ability throws survivors who are just learning how to run from the killer off, his ability to expose survivors can make someone panic as they try to avoid being downed, and his lack of red stain letting him get hits on people who rely on what the see rather than knowledge on how the killer has to play the loop.
The Catch is that most of abilities become much weaker against survivors who know what they are doing. Not just less effective, weaker. Stealth can be countered by either bringing Spine Chill or being a little paranoid, The warning that you get from being exposed now lets you run to the nearest loop for safety, and his lack of a Red Light is no real problem because you know how he has to move in order to hit you.
There is one trick that GF has that remains truly scary at even the highest of levels, the 99. The ability to down a survivor instantly with no warning to the survivor is not something that can be overlooked.
So when you combine a killer who can easily take down newer teams while having an ability that can still snowball against more experienced teams, you get a killer with a decent kill rate.
The problem is that we don't know how those kills were gained. Were they proxy-camped? Was it a survivor getting nabbed at the last second? The Kill Rate, in my opinion, is best interpreted as a result of two factors: How good is the average killer playing this killer and how much do survivors as a whole know how to play around this killer.
Ghost Face is an m1 killer, something that most killer mains have at least a good understanding of.
Ghost Face ability requires unique counter play, something that throws many survivors off.
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But the new Marks last 60 seconds, so even when they run you still have quite a bit of time to hit them later. It’s the equivalent of getting Haunted Grounds to trigger on them. Plus once they’re fully Marked they can’t break you out of stealth for the next 60 seconds if you are stalking someone else. You can even stalk at 40 meter range, beyond the 36 meter range of Spine Chill, to avoid them detecting you that way.
So you really do have quite a bit of buffer where you can Mark to full at longer distance if you want and just catch them later, you don’t have to only 99% like with the old version of Ghost Face. (Not that 99% is a bad tactic, it’s just now the option to fully stalk at longer range instead is more consistent.)
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The longer duration helps getting downs, but the main strength of GF is the ability to throw the survivors off their game. 99'ing was not just strong because it gave you a down, it was strong because it gave you a down that, from the survivors pov, came out of nowhere.
Even if you do mark them, how do you find them later? A survivor could easily just hide out the timer and be back on gens when it is up. GF also has a rather lackluster chase power, so that minute of leeway can quick be burnt up with some looping and some pallets. Getting rid of pallets early on can be great, but it is wasting time that you just don't have. But even if we ignore that, the change I want is not really about that.
It is about stalking multiple survivors. Right now, GF can accidentally alert an entire team that he is watching them by revealing someone who was already partially marked. That is all I want changed. By giving GF a dedicated "press to expose" button or something like that, it just makes playing GF easier. I should feel like a deadly stalker, not an accountant trying to keep track of which stock has what value.
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- Marking someone to full does throw them off their game because they'll typically panic and stop doing gens, maybe even causing an explosion (and definitely causing regression if you use the purple Driver's License add-on)
- If the worst case is a survivor you Mark hides for 60 seconds and does no gens in the meantime, that's a win. But odds are you're either going to find them again or even just chase them straight after doing it depending on their reaction.
- It's actually easier to stalk multiple survivors when you stalk them to full because stalked survivors can't break you out of stealth while stalking others.
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Those first point might be true against newer players, but more experienced players tend to have a better understand of his power.
The second point has a similar problem, against better teams just getting a mark is a task in itself so you have to make it count. Sure, the survivor may not being doing gens for 60 seconds, but if doing that took you longer than 15 seconds, then the survivors have net gain in time since there are four of them. That being said, it can be very powerful to mark a survivor to make them not go for a save.
While it is true that stalked survivors can't break you out of stealth, the main concern when it comes to stalking multiple survivors is the early game. In the first minute of the match, survivors don't know that they are facing a ghost face. If one of their teammates suddenly gets exposed, then that element of surprise is lost. Once good survivors know that they are going against a ghost face, they become way more aware of their surroundings and will try to spot you before you can sneak up on them.
Ghost Face is a noob stomper: Strong against opponents who don't know how to loop m1 killers. Once you get past that point, Ghost Face's danger drops off greatly. I don't want to give Ghost Face some overpowered ability, I just want to have a little more control over how I approach using his power.
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The entity is supposed to "power up" killers in some way, but GF is just a dude with a knife. I think GF should be invisible or a low to the ground dark cloud to survivors 32 meters or further away. That way he can at least approach on the large open maps, but once closer, they can see him as normal. Bear in mind, that would be a per survivor effect. For example, a survivor within 32 meters of him could see him, but a survivor beyond 32 meters wouldn't.
Either that, or allow him to mark 3 lockers. If he hops into a locker, he can teleport to one of the marked lockers to simulate there actually being two killers on the field. Once he teleports to a locker, the new locker loses its mark, but the old locker he came from gets a mark. This at least lets him have some better map presence as opposed to hoofing it everywhere. He can't stealth everywhere, as he's too slow while stealthed.
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- Getting a mark to full never takes 15 seconds. Either you get it in about 5-10 seconds or you don’t.
- Good survivors are already aware of their surroundings regardless of the killer. Especially ones with Spine Chill don’t particularly become “more aware” just because it’s Ghost Face.
- You’re wrong about the mark not getting experienced players off the gens. In fact, it’s the new players who don’t know what the mark means that stay on the gens once they’re marked.
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Yes, the actual act of marking a survivor takes around 10 seconds at most. However, you are forgetting the time it takes to find survivors in the first place.
While good survivors do pay attention to their environment already, they aren't looking for ghost face. They aren't making sure they can't be seen from a distance, they aren't checking for a ghost face stalking them from an odd angle. The same way that a good player looks for the nearest vault against Bubba, or for the nearest wall against killers like Huntress, a player who knows they are going against GF will play differently. They will use routes that are harder to see, they will position themselves to be harder to stalk, etc. It is much easier to mark a survivor who does not even know you are in the game, regardless of how skilled they are.
Also, I don't know where you got me thinking the mark does not get survivors off gens from. It does, the problem is that there are still three other survivors. If you take 20 seconds (15 seconds to find a survivor, 5 seconds to mark), you stop one survivor from doing gens for 60 seconds. However, killer's time is worth more than survivors, so that 20 seconds of time you spent is roughly 60 seconds of the other survivors on gens. Not to mention, that survivor could still get back on the gen if they realize you are not in the area, which is quite easy if you are in a swf. It is definitely a tool that can be used to great effect, but it is not a game breaking option.
I don't know why you don't want this change. From the survivor's point of view, the only real difference is that you are more likely to be 99. However, you should be playing against GF like you are always 99 so what is the difference? It is just a small QOL Buff to help make GF's power a little more consistent to use. What is your exact reason why you don't want this change?
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- I'm not sure why you're adding 15 seconds to "find a survivor" if you fully Mark them versus "partially mark them". You're going to spend the same amount of time finding survivors either way, you're not somehow saving that amount of time if you partially mark them.
- Killer's time being valuable doesn't change the value of a survivor being off a generator. A survivor not doing a generator for 30-60 seconds is still adding at least 30-60 seconds to the net time it will take the survivors as a group to finish them.
- You're calculating the time it takes to fully mark someone as 5 seconds, but for some reason are not at all calculating the time it takes to 99% a survivor which is literally the same amount of time minus 1%.
- I haven't commented on any "changes" because that wasn't what I originally replied about. The only point in my original reply was, and still is, that the new Ghost Face has more flexibility to fully Mark survivors rather than rely mainly on 99% Marks. I have no opinion on whatever the change is you're talking about.
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- The reason why I was adding 15 seconds was because I was working under the assumption that we are marking a survivor for the sake of pushing them off a gen rather than trying to down them. We are finding them, marking them, and then letting them go. If our goal is to down them, then you are correct, it does not matter if we are partially marking them or fully marking them when it comes to the amount of time we are wasting finding them.
- While it is true that getting a survivor off gens is still good, I disagree with how much time you are getting, at least when it comes to a full team. I think it is more around 15-30 seconds. However, if we are talking about marking survivors to buy time, a much more effective, if more toxic, is to mark a survivor trying to go for a save. Even if you don't down them, the ability to turn a team of four into a team of two for even a few seconds can be an absoute game changer.
- This point is another example of me not making it clear enough what I was talking about, sorry. I was assuming that we were marking a survivor and then letting them go rather than marking a survivor and downing them.
- Honestly, I agree with you when it comes to new Ghost Face being more flexible when it comes to marking survivors. The ability to mark a survivor to stop them from going for a save can be very strong. 99 is still GF's go to method for downing survivors, but the changes have opened up some new techniques that are quite powerful. In other words, I misread your original comment.
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- Marking is multipurpose. You Mark them and, if they are too far away to chase right away, you'll have a chance probably to down them later before it ends. Worst case is they get scared off the gen a bit. If you can down them after Marking them then great!
- I'm not sure why Marking and downing people going for a save is "toxic" but whatever. 🤷♂️
- Right, and to be clear, I agree with you that 90-99% is a useful technique too, especially when you find yourself likely unable to get a full mark anyway. I just see a lot of people who still think that if you don't 99% all the time with Ghost Face you can't do well which isn't the case any more. They just don't realize the new version of the Mark is more flexible than that.
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There's a "deadzone" where survivors you're looking at won't be stalked so try using this to your advantage when you're stalking someone who is next to a 99'd survivor. Hop in customs to get a feel for it first.
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Since when does GhostFace lose the unfilled gray stalk gauge if it hits a survivor with a basic attack ?
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